Curse

upier · Mar 21, 2008, 11:04 PM // 23:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

2) You need at least one AoE damage hero. Normally this comes in the form of a Ele nuker but it can also be a SS necro in Sab's build which also carries Barbs to synergize with minions.

Define "need".

(And I am guessing you meant Mark of Pain instead of Barbs since we are talking about AoE?)

DarkSpirit · Mar 21, 2008, 11:09 PM // 23:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Define "need".

(And I am guessing you meant Mark of Pain instead of Barbs since we are talking about AoE?)

Nah...dont bring MoP on heroes. If want to use MoP, bring it on a human necro to cast it on a creature that dies hard (usually a boss or a healer) and sits in the center of a mob, then bring fiends for your MM.

I meant the SS for AoE. Barbs is not AoE but it certainly synergizes with MM.

upier · Mar 21, 2008, 11:12 PM // 23:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Nah...dont bring MoP on heroes. If want to use MoP, bring it on a human necro to cast it on a creature that dies hard (usually a boss or a healer) and sits in the center of a mob, then bring fiends for your MM.

I meant the SS for AoE. Barbs is not AoE but it certainly synergizes with MM.

Ahh so the Barbs comment was just an extra piece of information.
Didn't see that.

DarkSpirit · Mar 21, 2008, 11:30 PM // 23:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Ahh so the Barbs comment was just an extra piece of information.
Didn't see that.

Yeah but Barbs and MoP synergize very well with a MM. Actually if you can work the targeting right or cast MoP manually while carrying it on a hero, you can design a strong variant of Sab's build that uses fiends or fiends+minions.

MoP is simply amazing when it works.

Tobimaru · Mar 21, 2008, 11:48 PM // 23:48

I usualy take MM, I'm totally with you DarkSpirit, they're pretty useful, I run my hero with jagged bones, or order of undeath when I'm feeling lucky

I take another elementalist to suport me, if I'm running SF a SF hero it's kinda useful, at least for me. A good amount of damage.
And finally I take a prot Monk I just couldn't survive without my Tahlkora.
I take sometimes a Paragon I mean with all that burning "They're on Fire!" it's very useful. But still taking a para is rare for me.

Those are my chosen ones

Coloneh · Mar 21, 2008, 11:59 PM // 23:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by whufc89

If I do that I may aswell be running Sabway which I don't really want to do if possible, although it seems as if I'll probably end up running sabway some time in the future anyway.

People have suggested a SS curses necro. What do you think my team's survivability would be like with an SS Necro, MM & interrupter as my heroes? I'm still wondering whether or not to keep a hero interrupter & a hero monk in my party. Would you suggest dropping both in place of something else?

sabway explots the strengths of necro heroes. if youre running necros you might as well be running something like sabway.

SS is alright on heroes. they arent amazing with hexes, but they do alright. I suggested the N/Rt because you already had a MM, and there is huge synergy. my general advice for a hero team for a caster would be:

1 support character to make up for henchie monks only being able to make red bars go up. a paragon, Rit or N/Rt works well.

1-2 shutdown/damage character. thats your hex spammer or your interrupter, maybe even a blindbot or a warder. pretty useful.

1 melee control. thats a Warder or an MM. maybe a melee hero, but they suck at that. keeping the melle off the backline is a good thing.

thats general though, gimicks work to

DarkSpirit · Mar 22, 2008, 12:39 AM // 00:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

sabway explots the strengths of necro heroes. if youre running necros you might as well be running something like sabway.

SS is alright on heroes. they arent amazing with hexes, but they do alright. I suggested the N/Rt because you already had a MM, and there is huge synergy. my general advice for a hero team for a caster would be:

1 support character to make up for henchie monks only being able to make red bars go up. a paragon, Rit or N/Rt works well.

1-2 shutdown/damage character. thats your hex spammer or your interrupter, maybe even a blindbot or a warder. pretty useful.

1 melee control. thats a Warder or an MM. maybe a melee hero, but they suck at that. keeping the melle off the backline is a good thing.

thats general though, gimicks work to

If you are interested in building a good heroes team of your own but dont want to just use sabway, like most people, then you should understand why sabway works as a generic solution. I dont believe there are no other better hero team builds than sabway but if you want to improve something you should know what works well and what doesn't work well for it.

1) Sabway is based around necro soul reaping and bone minions. Heroes tend to spam skills rather than conserve energy, so sabway provides a good energy source by using necros.

2) Sabway diversify healing/protection/hex removal/condition removal across different heroes so that if one dies, the other can help to cover somewhat.

The offensive side of Sabway is alittle weak as it mainly depends on minion damage + Barbs with alittle SS on the side and Splinter weapon AoE but their spike healing works out well. Some damage and nice healing in HM means that you get to stay alive and slowly chip away at your enemies, so in the end you still win.

whufc89 · Mar 22, 2008, 04:58 AM // 04:58

OK I changed my MM hero build to the following, hopefully it's better now, but if you feel it can be changed to make it even better somehow then please let me know, thanks.

[skill]jagged bones[/skill][skill]animate vampiric horror[/skill][skill]animate bone horror[/skill][skill]animate shambling horror[/skill][skill]death nova[/skill][skill]blood of the master[/skill][skill]aegis[/skill][skill]resurrection signet[/skill]

Death Magic - 16
Soul Reaping - 9
Protection Prayers - 9

I was worried that lowering his SR to 9 would cause a problem & I'm not really too sure about this revised build, what do you all think?

Is there anything that could be improved? Would you use Aegis etc?

Check the first post for my original MM hero build.

Zamochit · Mar 22, 2008, 05:09 AM // 05:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squishy ftw

Better alternatives would indeed be jagged bones, aura of the lich or a personal(not supported by most other people) favorite of mine: virulence(+ epidemic)

Im a huge fan of virulence as well, just be very aware as to which enemys you will be facing and your team set up ~ Virulence against human npcs will spread disease to YOUR party as well, and against charr if Pyre is in your team, likely to him etc.

Coloneh · Mar 22, 2008, 05:14 AM // 05:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by whufc89

OK I changed my MM hero build to the following, hopefully it's better now, but if you feel it can be changed to make it even better somehow then please let me know, thanks.

[skill]jagged bones[/skill][skill]animate vampiric horror[/skill][skill]animate bone horror[/skill][skill]animate shambling horror[/skill][skill]death nova[/skill][skill]blood of the master[/skill][skill]aegis[/skill][skill]resurrection signet[/skill]

Death Magic - 16
Soul Reaping - 9
Protection Prayers - 9

I was worried that lowering his SR to 9 would cause a problem & I'm not really too sure about this revised build, what do you all think?

Is there anything that could be improved? Would you use Aegis etc?

Check the first post for my original MM hero build.

its not to bad lose the vamp horrors for bone minions. you want these things to die fast when you have death nova and jagged bones. personally i would also run 14 death magic, but if you want your MM to be an aggro magnet thats up to you.

whufc89 · Mar 22, 2008, 05:19 AM // 05:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

its not to bad lose the vamp horrors for bone horrors. you want these things to die fast when you have death nova and jagged bones. personally i would also run 14 death magic, but if you want your MM to be an aggro magnet thats up to you.

I already have Bone Horrors in there. Did you mean bone minions? I just added vamp horrors to keep the pressure off my monks a bit, as vamp horrors help in healing the MM.

Coloneh · Mar 22, 2008, 05:26 AM // 05:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by whufc89

I already have Bone Horrors in there. Did you mean bone minions? I just added vamp horrors to keep the pressure off my monks a bit, as vamp horrors help in healing the MM.

yes i meant bone minions, but now that i look again, you can take out the bone horrors to if you have the shamblings. you dont need to take that much pressure off of your monk, bring a self heal in your new spare slot. SOLS should work out fine

whufc89 · Mar 22, 2008, 05:30 AM // 05:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

yes i meant bone minions, but now that i look again, you can take out the bone horrors to if you have the shamblings. you dont need to take that much pressure off of your monk, bring a self heal in your new spare slot. SOLS should work out fine

If I take out the bone horrors then I only have 2 Minion summoning skills. One of them recharges in 15 secs and the other in 25 secs which means I only get a minion eery 15-25 seconds

At least with bone horrors/minions, it recharges in 5 secs. Anyway, you suggest taking out animate bone horrors for animate bone minions?

Coloneh · Mar 22, 2008, 05:31 AM // 05:31

im just confused now... im saying change the first 4 skillsfrom that bar to:
jagged bones
bone minions
jagged horror
SOLS

whufc89 · Mar 22, 2008, 05:37 AM // 05:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

im just confused now... im saying change the first 4 skillsfrom that bar to:
jagged bones
bone minions
jagged horror
SOLS

Sorry I must have misunderstood you. Anyway, surely at 9 soul reaping bring SOLS wouldn't be the best choice would it? Bringing Vamp Horrors would surely be a better choice

I'm not disagreeing with what you're suggesting, just simply trying to find out your reasoning for your suggestions

Although not exactly what you suggested, here is the new MM build I just made based on a few of your suggestions, what do you think now?

[skill]jagged bones[/skill][skill]animate vampiric horror[/skill][skill]animate bone minions[/skill][skill]animate shambling horror[/skill][skill]death nova[/skill][skill]blood of the master[/skill][skill]aegis[/skill][skill]resurrection signet[/skill]

Death Magic - 16
Soul Reaping - 9
Protection Prayers - 9

EDIT: Just looked and all I've really changed is bone horrors to bone minions haha

Mickey · Mar 22, 2008, 05:43 AM // 05:43

My hero builds for any caster are usually:

http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:Rt/E_WoQ_Support_Rit
http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:P/W_Party_Support
http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:N/Rt_WoD_Healer

I am usually either:

A. Mind Blast with either AoE, or Air shutdown skills.

OR

B. Straight Air, using either Blinding Surge or Invoke Lightning, and Auspicious Incantation + Maelstrom for caster shutdown.

Lurid · Mar 22, 2008, 05:46 AM // 05:46

You don't need that many minion summoning skills. As the ones you already have die Jagged Bones replaces them, thus negating any downside of having a longer recharge time. Also throw a 20/20 wand & offhand on the MM, that helps alot too.

Coloneh · Mar 22, 2008, 05:47 AM // 05:47

the thing about vamp horrors is that they are SOOOO expensive. 25 energy is alot for each minion. and the healing is totally unnecessary unless you are running OoU. I just really dont like the skill.
plus you have 4 summon skills on your bar. you could argue that Jagged bones isnt one, so lets just call it a half. even 3 summons is alot. 2 is normal. 2.5 is good.
and at 10 soul reaping (that should be 9+1) you return 7 energy and 70hp almost ever 8 seconds with heroes reflexes. honestly, they are amazing with the skill.

the main problem is that you have half your bar devoted to raising minions.

whufc89 · Mar 22, 2008, 05:50 AM // 05:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

the thing about vamp horrors is that they are SOOOO expensive. 25 energy is alot for each minion. and the healing is totally unnecessary unless you are running OoU. I just really dont like the skill.
plus you have 4 summon skills on your bar. you could argue that Jagged bones isnt one, so lets just call it a half. even 3 summons is alot. 2 is normal. 2.5 is good.
and at 10 soul reaping (that should be 9+1) you return 7 energy and 70hp almost ever 8 seconds with heroes reflexes. honestly, they are amazing with the skill.

the main problem is that you have half your bar devoted to raising minions.

OK I think I'm gonna put in SOLS in place of vamp horrors. Although, I think the wiki is wrong as it's 15 energy to summon a vamp horror, not 25. I just checked ingame. Do you still feel the same way knowing this?

Coloneh · Mar 22, 2008, 05:54 AM // 05:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by whufc89

OK I think I'm gonna put in SOLS in place of vamp horrors. Although, I think the wiki is wrong as it's 15 energy to summon a vamp horror, not 25. I just checked ingame. Do you still feel the same way knowing this?

meh, didnt know that. was going by the skill tag, but they are not needed when you have bone minions and shamblings which both summon 2 minions from 1 corpse. (3 with jagged bones)