Curse

whufc89 · Mar 21, 2008, 08:21 AM // 08:21

First of all, sorry for the long post but I needed to get this off my chest. Also, sorry in advance if this is in the wrong section. Mods, if it needs to be deleted for being in the wrong section, I'd really appreciate it if it could just be moved to the correct section instead as it's such a long post & I don't really feel like having to type the whole thing out again, as I'm sure you can appreciate.

Anyway, here's the deal...

The problem is to do with my hero setup. For a while now I've been using the following setup:

1) Me - Fire Elementalist

Quote:

2) Norgu (Mesmer Interrupter) - [skill]power block[/skill][skill]cry of frustration[/skill][skill]power spike[/skill][skill]power drain[/skill][skill]empathy[/skill][wiki]Signet Of Distraction[/wiki][skill]leech signet[/skill][skill]resurrection signet[/skill]

Domination Magic - 16 (12+1+3)
Inspiration Magic - 12
Fast Casting - 3

Quote:

3) Master Of Whispers (Necro Minion Master) - [skill]animate flesh golem[/skill][skill]animate bone fiend[/skill][skill]animate vampiric horror[/skill][skill]animate bone horror[/skill][skill]animate shambling horror[/skill][skill]deathly swarm[/skill][skill]blood of the master[/skill][skill]resurrection signet[/skill]

Death Magic - 16 (12+1+3)
Soul Reaping - 12

Quote:

4) Dunkoro (Monk Healer) - [skill]word of healing[/skill][skill]dwayna's kiss[/skill][skill]signet of rejuvenation[/skill][skill]signet of devotion[/skill][skill]dismiss condition[/skill][skill]remove hex[/skill][skill]glyph of lesser energy[/skill][skill]resurrection signet[/skill]

Healing Prayers - 16 (12+1+3)
Divine Favor - 12
Protection Prayers - 3

Slots 5,6,7,8 consist of [wiki]Mhenlo[/wiki], [wiki]Lina[/wiki], [wiki]Herta[/wiki] & [wiki]Devona[/wiki]

I had been using this build for a few months with no MAJOR problems (except for thinking it could be better somehow) when I came across a thread talking about how using a monk hero is a waste of a hero slot and you may aswell take monk henchies instead. I decided to take out Dunkoro & include a second interrupter but this time in the form of a ranger (Pyre Fierceshot).

This was his build:

Quote:

[skill]broad head arrow[/skill][skill]epidemic[/skill][wiki]Volley[/wiki][skill]distracting shot[/skill][skill]savage shot[/skill][skill]keen arrow[/skill][wiki]Poison Tip Signet[/wiki][skill]resurrection signet[/skill]

Marksmanship - 16 (12+1+3)
Expertise - 12
Wilderness Survival - 3

So basically my H/H team was exactly the same as above but this time with Pyre in place of Dunkoro.

I tried this out for a while in general PvE doing missions etc & didn't really notice any improvement or anything different at all really. It was only when I did a couple of dungeons that I started to think "wow this new H/H team sucks worse than my previous one". It was the dungeon [wiki]Shards Of Orr[/wiki] especially which made me think this. Usually I'd complete a dungeon within around 1 hour - 1.5 Hours. Shards Of Orr took me 3 hours to complete & must have party wiped at least 15-20 times. As I'm sure you can imagine, this was extremely frustrating & lead me to start thinking about improving my team/heroes.

Pyre wasn't going nearly as well as I'd hoped & to be honest he seemed quite /fail. I was expecting a team with 2 major interrupters (Norgu & Pyre) to be able to completely shut down the majority of casters we come up against so that we took minimal damage from them, but it just seemed as though Pyre wasn't even there. The interrupts situation was still the same as when I just had Norgu interrupting for me. It didn't seem like Pyre was making any difference at all so I took him out & replaced him with Dunkoro who was originally in my team as shown above.

The thing is, now I'm back to where I started thinking what I could replace Dunkoro with, seeing as so many people think using a hero slot on a monk is a waste. Here's people's opinions on it if you feel like checking it out - http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10269304

Some people recommended Sabway to me, but SO many people use this I didn't really feel like using it. One thing I know, is that my team's survivability was severely hindered when I replaced Dunkoro with Pyre & only had 2 monks instead of 3. For this reason, I was thinking maybe a Paragon with a few attack buffs, healing shouts/chants would be a good choice as a hero, but I'm really not sure at all. There's so many things to think about & consider that I'm not sure which route to go down, which is why I'd really appreciate your help.

Do I keep my team the way it is at the moment, with Dunkoro in or do I take Dunkoro out & replace him with an offensive hero, then just have 2 hench monks to provide the healing/protecting? If you suggest taking him out, what would you advise putting in his place?

Also, if you have ANY suggestions whatsoever about improving my current team lineup/skills etc then please feel free to make me aware of them as any help is greatly appreciated. Surely you can see how frustrating this situation is for me & how confused I am about the whole thing, judging from the length of this post

Thanks a lot in advance guys. I'm heading to bed now & should be up in around 6 hours or so. I'll keep this thread bookmarked & hopefully when I wake up there will be some helpful answers here to help with my problem. I'll spend time reading through each & every answer I get & replying to them

RedStar · Mar 21, 2008, 08:33 AM // 08:33

It depends a lot of the zone you are going to be in.
For example :
-if I go into the Shards of Orr I'll take Ogden (smiter) and 2 SH ele (I get to the boss in 50 min each times, but I can't seem to kill him lol).
-and if I do Oola's lab I'll take 1 SH, 1 defensive para and 1 barrage ranger.
-or if I'll do a mission/dungeon with lots of corpse I'll take sabway xD.

In short : there's not 1 team line up, it all depends on what you are going to do.

Squishy ftw · Mar 21, 2008, 08:37 AM // 08:37

The mesmer hero:
Personally I would just drop this one and go with your BHA pyre.

The MM hero:
That build is quite bad tbh. You have 5 skills that do the same thing: make a minion. 2 or 3 is more than enough.
The elite is also pretty bad imo, and deathly swarm is a waste of 3 seconds of your MMs time.

The monk hero:
I would signet of devo and res sig for aegis and ps/sb. bring divine back to 9 and 10 or 11(cant remember) in prot.

And about shards of orr: Don't worry about that one, it's one of the hardest dungeons in eotn. And your rangers might've looked bad because everyone and their mother are blinded in shards.

Just my 2 cents on the matter.

EDIT: I also wouldn't take any sup runes(except maybe on your mm)

whufc89 · Mar 21, 2008, 08:39 AM // 08:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedStar

It depends a lot of the zone you are going to be in.
For example :
-if I go into the Shards of Orr I'll take Ogden (smiter) and 2 SH ele (I get to the boss in 50 min each times, but I can't seem to kill him lol).
-and if I do Oola's lab I'll take 1 SH, 1 defensive para and 1 barrage ranger.
-or if I'll do a mission/dungeon with lots of corpse I'll take sabway xD.

In short : there's not 1 team line up, it all depends on what you are going to do.

Thinking about it now, I'm actually not bothered about using Sabway if the majority of you feel this would be the best route for me to go down, in terms of GENERAL PvE. By general I mean the majority of PvE where a single type of team doesn't have to be specially changed/tweaked in order to deal with the environment.

I prefer to keep things simple & just use THREE heroes, never changing them for a particular area or anything like that. I don't know, maybe that's part of my problem but it's less complicated that way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squishy ftw

The mesmer hero:
Personally I would just drop this one and go with your BHA pyre.

The MM hero:
That build is quite bad tbh. You have 5 skills that do the same thing: make a minion. 2 or 3 is more than enough.
The elite is also pretty bad imo, and deathly swarm is a waste of 3 seconds of your MMs time.

The monk hero:
I would signet of devo and res sig for aegis and ps/sb. bring divine back to 9 and 10 or 11(cant remember) in prot.

And about shards of orr: Don't worry about that one, it's one of the hardest dungeons in eotn. And your rangers might've looked bad because everyone and their mother are blinded in shards.

Just my 2 cents on the matter.

EDIT: I also wouldn't take any sup runes(except maybe on your mm)

Squishy why do you think I should bring Pyre instead of Norgu? Any particular reason? Deathly swarm on the MM is just for when there aren't any corpses around yet. I mean, he may aswell be using an attack skill to speed up the production of corpses as opposed to just wanding in the background. Also, do you feel I should use jagged bones instead of Flesh Golem?

I saw you just edited your post about using Sup Runes. I always thought Sup Runes were what everybody used in PvE and minors for PvP. I guess I was wrong

Is this just YOUR way of playing or do the majority of people use minors instead of superiors in PvE?

And last of all, are you sure I shouldn't give my monk hero a res if I was to use him? Why is that? Sorry for questioning most of everything you've said haha, I'm not disagreeing with you at all, just trying to learn as much as I can

Anyway, I really am going to bed now so I'll have to reply more in a few hours. Please keep the replies coming, thanks again guys.

RedStar · Mar 21, 2008, 09:02 AM // 09:02

I barely use sabway. My perfect team (the one I use most of the time) is :
-1 SH with mark of rodgort
-1 Barrage ranger with some interrupts (or barrage).
-1 para with shouts that gives armors from burning foes

I never really had any problem with that team, but sometimes I take a mm instead of the para.

And I use sup runes on most of my heroes.

strcpy · Mar 21, 2008, 09:19 AM // 09:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by whufc89

Thinking about it now, I'm actually not bothered about using Sabway if the majority of you feel this would be the best route for me to go down, in terms of GENERAL PvE. By general I mean the majority of PvE where a single type of team doesn't have to be specially changed/tweaked in order to deal with the environment.

No one single team build is going to work *everywhere*. Sab's build also has one of the issues yours does - the minion master needs corpses. There are several places in the game (say Oola's lab) where no corpses means you MM is sitting around doing nothing.

Quote:

Squishy why do you think I should bring Pyre instead of Norgu?

I generally prefer them as an interrupter because of e-management and recharge rate. The AI mesmer set as an interrupter wastes everything on crappy spells and then sits and does nothing for a while. I can't say why Squishy does. I prefer the mesmer AI in roles other than an interrupter (lots of nice hexes in there).

Plus two interrupters are generally overkill - they can not keep the casters shutdown to that extent and you loose too much that way.

Quote:

Deathly swarm on the MM is just for when there aren't any corpses around yet. I mean, he may aswell be using an attack skill to speed up the production of corpses as opposed to just wanding in the background.

It's still a waste of a slot - it makes so little difference as far as team damage goes that it is a waste of a slot and it slows down what your build is attempting to do. That is be a MM. Let your MM be a MM, shoehorning one non-MM task skill in is going to do worse than leaving it blank.

Quote:

I saw you just edited your post about using Sup Runes. I always thought Sup Runes were what everybody used in PvE and minors for PvP. I guess I was wrong

Is this just YOUR way of playing or do the majority of people use minors instead of superiors in PvE?

There is a thread about how much HP you use in PvE - there is no "most" as far as that goes and each side seems to think the other is crazy. If you are dying a lot and that extra HP will save you then it is a no brainer, if you are not dying and have a lot of HP left it is also no brainer, if you are in neither case try it and see. I use them and have no problems, some use them and die all the time, some just like the extra "cushion" of the health.

As for your general question of which other hero to take (I mostly find the monk slot to be better off in the henchies also) it depends. I find that the heroes make really good (compared to the hench) fire ele's, barrage rangers, Spiteful Spirit necro, Spoil Victor necro, Touch Ranger, Critical Barrage Assassin, Water Ele (especially if your other heroes use a lot of AoE stuff - not so much if you don't), and quite a few other things.

Typically you don't want to double up on roles that much though there are exceptions. One will do and a second normally just adds a little. However, in really corpse heavy areas 2 MM are nice and 2 searing flame ele's can work well so don't be afraid to try things.

On my Dervish I normally use a barrage ranger, a searing flame ele, and a MM. The Searing Flame ele gets swapped out for destroyers (they are immune to fire) and the MM gets swapped out in places with not enough corpses. I usually swap for a Spiteful Spirit Necro.

Squishy ftw · Mar 21, 2008, 09:23 AM // 09:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by whufc89

Squishy why do you think I should bring Pyre instead of Norgu? Any particular reason?

Because all that Norgu does is interrupt,whereas pyre has more damage, can provide aoe daze and if you replace poison tip signet with apply poison that's another aoe -4 degen(thanks to epidemic).
This might just be a personal thing tho, as I never really liked pure interrupting mesmer heroes for pve.They seem to miss the important spells and interrupt the lame ones. You might want to wait for more replies on this matter tho

Quote:

Originally Posted by whufc89

Deathly swarm on the MM is just for when there aren't any corpses around yet. I mean, he may aswell be using an attack skill to speed up the production of corpses as opposed to just wanding in the background. Also, do you feel I should use jagged bones instead of Flesh Golem?

Better alternatives would indeed be jagged bones, aura of the lich or a personal(not supported by most other people) favorite of mine: virulence(+ epidemic).

Quote:

Originally Posted by whufc89

I saw you just edited your post about using Sup Runes. I always thought Sup Runes were what everybody used in PvE and minors for PvP. I guess I was wrong

Is this just YOUR way of playing or do the majority of people use minors instead of superiors in PvE?

I think a majority will use minors.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10267130
That thread might give you a better idea on how many people use minors/superiors and why.

Quote:

Originally Posted by whufc89

And last of all, are you sure I shouldn't give my monk hero a res if I was to use him? Why is that? Sorry for questioning most of everything you've said haha, I'm not disagreeing with you at all, just trying to learn as much as I can

I sure wouldn't. A monk's bar is already so awfully compressed, wasting one skill slot for a res is hindering it's abilities imo. Monks should try to make sure nobody needs to be ressed, this can be done the best by using it's 8 skills.

I hope this answers your questions, and please don't mind all the spelling mistakes

Dark Kal · Mar 21, 2008, 11:02 AM // 11:02

I'd say bring more damage to the table. Having 2 interupters is overkill. Bring another elementalist for damage i.e. SF Nuker, Bringing an MM is generally good although some places like Shards Of Orr don't have many corpses so it's basicly not a good idea to bring him with you there, and look up a better MM build you don't need that many summon minion spells. The third hero is kind of my interchangeable hero depending heavenly on what area I'm doing, in general I'll take a second SF Nuker although that may be unfavorable if you are playing an ele yourself. Otherwise I'd suggest a heal/energy support Paragon, a BiP Necro since h/h are poor at energy management, an SS necro, any other kind of non-melee damage dealer, an interupt/damage ranger, you could bring a condition/hex removal monk since hench aren't great at that with some additional healing/protective spells. In general a full interupter isn't that usefull in PvE.

Anime Divine · Mar 21, 2008, 11:36 AM // 11:36

it also depends if your doing hm or not

everyone likes sabway including me cos i dont have to worry about micromanaging them i just charge in and kil everything. thus making it easier in hm.

but my favourite setup for normal mode is just 2 monk healers /no protect/ 1 sh ele and the hench mesmer any spirit(gai) deadly(nika) necro(eve) mage(cynn) warrior(devona)

Squishy ftw · Mar 21, 2008, 11:40 AM // 11:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anime Divine

everyone likes sabway

Lies.

I don't like it. I used it once and never again.

Miska Bow · Mar 21, 2008, 12:01 PM // 12:01

I got my ass kicked, licked and sent home via postal mail many times in there. Tried a lot of different builds to counter them with no luck so i went with the next best strategy witch consist of: "Dead foes dont hurt you" I found out that they take double dmg from Holy attack so i came up with this little team.

Me as Holy ranger

With

2 Holy Dervish

1 protect monk hero with splinter weapon that is casted on me.

2 monk henchies 2 ele henchies and consummables. (consummable are optionnal in NM)

Bassically i run up to the mob with the 2 dervish and lauch "Light of Deldrimor" and "Eternal aura". What left of them (usually not much

), goes down pretty fast.

Take down the Cleric as fast as possible.

Edited: Im r 9 dwarf and r10 sunspear.

Julia-Louis Dreyfus · Mar 21, 2008, 12:19 PM // 12:19

all of your heros bars are pretty bad, besides the rangers, that ones decent. although id drop the ranger to be honest. id check out sabway as the n/rts are pretty broken. also a curses necro would help you out ALOT

DarkFlame · Mar 21, 2008, 02:37 PM // 14:37

Like Kal says, bring more damage to the table. As is, your hero and hench choices don't do much for you. Your old setup has 3 monks, a warder and a redundant tank with your MM being all the meat shield you really need. That only really leaves you doing any damage and I can't even be sure of that until I see your ele's build too. In your second setup, you took out a monk for a redundant interrupter. Unfortunately, all that does is lower your survivability as your underpowered team can't last in a fight as long as when you had 3 monks. And you do find yourself in long fights, no? They shouldn't last more then 2-3 minutes.

As for which to bring, I can't really help as that mainly depends are where you are going. There is no one party setup that will get you completely through every area.

Some things you can change however, is you MM. Like everyone has said, you have far too many animate spells, there only a finite number of corpses around and a cap to the number of minions you can have. Reduce it to 2(3 at most), preferably one high cost(vamp horror or fiend) and a low cost(bone horror) one. And yes, Jagged Bones is a better elite. Another thing to consider is for your hero bars that only use its primary's skills, change its secondary to P for Signet of Return as a hard rez or M for Rez Chant/Renew Life.

Fire The Nutter · Mar 21, 2008, 05:41 PM // 17:41

It sounds like you are looking for a one solution fits all type approach. Been there done that, got the coffin and the 60%DP.

I try and keep up to date with the forums but wouldnt call myself an expert, I just borrow others knowledge but I give credit where due. Take a look at the vanquishing builds and Synergizing Hero builds.

An oldy but goody IMO is
1) MM (standard Jagged bones works best for me, Animate bone minion, blood of master, death nova, sig of lost souls, res (death pact?), plus 1-2 attack skills, basically Sab's MM)
2) Para w/anthem of flame, ToF, GftE
3) SF Ele or SH
Just remembered the poster, Zingers it is, all credit to him on that one but I found it works a treat, smashed a lot of Cantha w/that.

Sabway, yup i like it, its auto-pilot PVE espec in NM, for *most* areas

Most recently read some posts by AntiThesis and Rachtoh (god i hope i spelt that right!) that helped me a lot regarding team setup.
Monks - If you are going to use a Monk Hero, go for 1big heal (WoH?), 1 small heal (dwaynas kiss), 1 big prot, 1 small (Aegis, RoF (this is sooo good its not funny), hex removal, pos condition removal depending on team. Also no res. Yes i thought wot??? at this point. However it makes sense if you think about it, healer out of the game for 5 secs approx whilst he res' someone and not healing so another char goes down or but a res on your offensive char's..... makes sense once you see in action.

Spread the love - Dont put all your healing, hex removal and condition removal on your monk/monks. People use paragons with hexbreaker aria a lot, SoP i think it is to remove conditions, why? because it helps the team in general. Also consider 2-3 aegis, that 50% to block can help a lot. Also Para's have some nice shouts that can help most of the team with extra healing etc.
Another heal option whilst buffing the damage is a D/N Arcane Orders (look on PvXWiki) but I like Sab's N/Rt personally (yes i know sabway but it works for me!)

As I say do some more searching but there are reasons that people run/like Sab's and Zingers and Rachtoh's builds, they tend to work 80%+ of the time espec if you spend just a little time thinking about the overall team balance.
Oh yes and if you can find it AntiThesis has a nice E/Rt blindbot channeler (use the search on here), that works well to prevent melee damage.

Keep your chin up though and dont be put off, its trial and error but you will come up with something that works for you.

If im in game drop me a PM and ill show you a few builds ive collected on here and run and you can see if they work for you.

GL!

whufc89 · Mar 21, 2008, 07:46 PM // 19:46

Hey I'm back now. I really can't thank you guys enough for all the time you've spent giving me detailed explanations & help, it's great. I've made sure to take everything said in this thread into account & will definitely be changing my hero builds for the better.

I have to pop out for a couple hours now though, but when I come back I'll try out the ideas & let you all know how they've worked for me.

Thanks again, you've been a great help!

Coloneh · Mar 21, 2008, 09:59 PM // 21:59

-lose the mesmer. get a caster that does something.
-the BHA is fine. just watch his targets.
-get that necro a jagged bones bar. they are amazing with it and golem is terrible.
-fill the last slot with a N/Rt. make sure you get splinter, ancestors, remedy wep, SOLS and anything else you think looks IMBA.

upier · Mar 21, 2008, 10:24 PM // 22:24

What are you running on your ele?
Because SF guys just blow up the more of them you have. So personally I'd SURELY add a few more fire eles.
You could actually dump the monky hero and the mesmer one and replace them with fire Eles. That way you have 3 fire eles - and it would be sweet if they all specced into prot - 9 for the breakpoint for [skill]Aegis[/skill]. You don't really need maxed out e-storage and prot is a superb line to dump it into. Also add condition and hex-removal on those guys - can do all - or maybe one on each.
[skill]Fire Attunement[/skill][skill]Glowing Gaze[/skill][skill]Glyph Of Lesser Energy[/skill][skill]Searing Flames[/skill][skill]Aegis[/skill] condition and/or hex removal/[skill]Protective Spirit[/skill] (PS is just insanely overpowered and it's very nice to have on a bar that you can access)
That way you can pretty much keep Aegis up all the time!

MMs don't do much for me these days - unless we are in some really easy areas - so you could even switch him out for a 4th ele (can either go fire again - or you can go a mix of air for [skill]Blinding Surge[/skill] and earth for some wards) - or keep him and bring more a bit more utility on him. Stuff like ench removal is sweet!

Ohh and the most important thing is that you get a few nice builds that work and then switch out the guys depending on what you need. Because you don't REALLY need to always run the same thing over and over again.

whufc89 · Mar 21, 2008, 10:26 PM // 22:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

-lose the mesmer. get a caster that does something.
-the BHA is fine. just watch his targets.
-get that necro a jagged bones bar. they are amazing with it and golem is terrible.
-fill the last slot with a N/Rt. make sure you get splinter, ancestors, remedy wep, SOLS and anything else you think looks IMBA.

If I do that I may aswell be running Sabway which I don't really want to do if possible, although it seems as if I'll probably end up running sabway some time in the future anyway.

People have suggested a SS curses necro. What do you think my team's survivability would be like with an SS Necro, MM & interrupter as my heroes? I'm still wondering whether or not to keep a hero interrupter & a hero monk in my party. Would you suggest dropping both in place of something else?

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

What are you running on your ele?
Because SF guys just blow up the more of them you have. So personally I'd SURELY add a few more fire eles.
You could actually dump the monky hero and the mesmer one and replace them with fire Eles. That way you have 3 fire eles - and it would be sweet if they all specced into prot - 9 for the breakpoint for [skill]Aegis[/skill]. You don't really need maxed out e-storage and prot is a superb line to dump it into. Also add condition and hex-removal on those guys - can do all - or maybe one on each.
[skill]Fire Attunement[/skill][skill]Glowing Gaze[/skill][skill]Glyph Of Lesser Energy[/skill][skill]Searing Flames[/skill][skill]Aegis[/skill] condition and/or hex removal/[skill]Protective Spirit[/skill] (PS is just insanely overpowered and it's very nice to have on a bar that you can access)
That way you can pretty much keep Aegis up all the time!

MMs don't do much for me these days - unless we are in some really easy areas - so you could even switch him out for a 4th ele (can either go fire again - or you can go a mix of air for [skill]Blinding Surge[/skill] and earth for some wards) - or keep him and bring more a bit more utility on him. Stuff like ench removal is sweet!

Ohh and the most important thing is that you get a few nice builds that work and then switch out the guys depending on what you need. Because you don't REALLY need to always run the same thing over and over again.

On my ele I run:

[skill]elemental attunement[/skill][skill]fire attunement[/skill][skill]immolate[/skill][skill]searing heat[/skill][skill]teinai's heat[/skill][skill]rodgort's invocation[/skill][skill]fireball[/skill][wiki]Sunspear Rebirth Signet[/wiki]

Fire Magic - 16 (12+1+3)
Energy Storage - 12

Burst Cancel · Mar 21, 2008, 10:35 PM // 22:35

There's really not that much variation. Here are the major points:

1. You run an MB anywhere with enough corpses to support one, because minions are gamebreaking. They absorb tons of pressure (not just damage, but also disrupting effects), are recyclable, and do tons of damage (indirectly - barbs and nova). There are variants of MBs - you can use a Rt/N MB also with their set of 3 spawning power enchantments (explosive growth, boon of creation, spirit's gift). You trade fewer and less powerful minions for overall better effects that are harder to control. You also don't get Bloodstained Insignia for fastcast.

If you run a standard N/x MB, you've got some utility options since MB only requires 4 skills (Animation, Nova, Jagged, and BoTM). If your team is rolling, Signet of LS is a wasted slot but most people (including myself) take it anyway. That's 3 skills left. If you go N/Mo, you can run remove hex (H/H teams are usually lacking in hex removal), aegis, and a res or another prot. Since you're not a monk yourself, you'll need Prot Spirit somewhere - the MB isn't a bad place to put it.

2. You will want to run a Rt/x or x/Rt. Splinter Weapon and Ancestor's Rage are too good. The rest of the bar is going to depend. Standard bar is restoration, but you can also run stuff like wards. One thing to keep in mind is that H/H is typically lacking in party healing, which the resto bar can help with.

3. The third slot should be disruption of some kind. Curse necro is good for this slot, especially since they can bring utility like Rip and Foul Feast. Good synergy with MB and barbs. There are other options if you don't like playing Sabway though. The ranger is fine. Earthshaker warrior is something else to try if you're good at tank-n-spank with H/H - if you do this, swap out Devona. If your dwarf rank is high, bringing Dwarf Weapon and a pair of barrage rangers is entertaining and reasonably effective.

4. A monk hero isn't a terrible idea, but hero slots are usually too precious to use on a healer. That said, I've run an HB hero with Heal Area - not exactly by-the-book, but it will save your ass from nukes in the backline, which is the only real problem H/H typically encounters.

Shards of Orr is a bad way to measure builds, as it's a pretty special area. Easiest way to beat it is to grab 8 people with Light of Deldrimor. Great Dwarf Weapon and Judge's Insight on a warrior rolls Fendi like pre-searing skale.

Edit: Consider changing your ele bar. SF is good. PvE skills are good too.

DarkSpirit · Mar 21, 2008, 10:48 PM // 22:48

Usual hero combination:

1) A MM is usually too useful to leave out for both great offense and defense, unless in certain places where there are not enough corpses, and there are no MM henchies to replace them with. Try to bring a MM but you need a good MM build and yours is not. Yours is too energy intensive you dont need so many different minions.

2) You need at least one AoE damage hero. Normally this comes in the form of a Ele nuker but it can also be a SS necro in Sab's build which also carries Barbs to synergize with minions. (usually this is an ele or necro)

3) The utility hero. This guy can be replaced with another AoE damage hero or a backup "healer" person or a tank, Interrupter, etc. Depending on the situation. (can be a paragon, mesmer, another necro, ritualist, ranger, warrior, ele, etc.)

Another thing to understand is, try to bring some heals/protect across all heroes if you can. This means if 1 hero dies, the other heroes can chip in and still provide some amount of heal/protect. You can take dunkoro's bar and spread the skills to your other heroes so they can heal and damage at the same time. You can have one hero for condition removal, one hero to remove hexes, someone for heal, someone for protect (e.g. Aegis/Guardian), etc.

I would take 2 necros, 1 nuker or
1 necro MM, 1 interrupt+hex removal FC mesmer (possibly Aegis or any protect skills that need FC), 1 nuker, or
1 MM, 1 nuker, 1 Paragon for party-wide protection.