Curse

Bront · Mar 19, 2008, 03:20 AM // 03:20

There seems to be some debate about this, so I figured I'd bring it up for discussion.

Do some Heroes use the same skill bar better than others?

I've noticed Ogden seems to be much slower than Talkhora with the same skill bar. No reason why, I've just watched him use it, and he's slower with healing than Talkhora is. Consistantly.

I've seen Vekk run around and into combat more often than Sousuka, and I've found Olias seems to be a better minion master and not as good with Spitefull Spirit as some of the other necros.

Anyone else have similar experiences?

Dem Babyz Iz Mine · Mar 19, 2008, 03:35 AM // 03:35

Yeah, I've noticed that Dunkers suxx with the same build I give Tahlk, and she does just fine. Hell, Dunkers consistantly suxx so there could be something going on there.

Momir · Mar 19, 2008, 03:42 AM // 03:42

the reason why they act differently is because all heros are set to certain attributes. Dunk is healing, Tahlk is prot, Ogden is divine. So they use the skills differently then the other heros would. Their AI's are set differently too. Thats why when i need a prot, i grab Tahlk, when I need an earth ele i grab Zhed, and so on. Just chekc their pre set skills and keep them to that attribute and you're good to go.

Antithesis · Mar 19, 2008, 03:48 AM // 03:48

I can't say that i've noticed any difference - assuming you spec them with the same armour, attributes and weapons, they should run the same bar the same way. Give Olias a Searing Flames bar and he'll run it flawlessly. Take two Searing Flamers with the same att split, runes and skillbar, but give one a 40/40 set and the other an Hourglass staff and you'll see a difference. Give them the same weapons and they'll be in roughly the same state, depending on who got the agro.

I believe the effectiveness of a Hero's skillbar has more to do with the quality of that bar than their individual AI (if they have it). How they perform in battle likely depends more on who's being targeted - if Ogden's interrupted, he's wasting casts. If Tahlkora's being targeted, Ogden's going to get more skills cast off....and vise versa. At best there may be AI that prioritises which heroes cast which skills and when so both Heroes don't hit the same target at the same time, but even that's a stretch. That's assuming you take both. If only taking one put it down to your overall team build and the ebb and flow of battle.

If you believe Heroes are optimised to run some bars better than others, stick to the skill lines they're using when you pick them up. This doesn't really account for Hybrid bars like WoH Heal / Prot or N/Rt Channel / Resto, E/Rt Air / Channel...they understand how to use a skill (for those skills they can run), what triggers it, who to cast it on and when to cast it etc. That has little or nothing to do with whether they're specced as Heal / Prot / Divine when you first got them.

Dem Babyz Iz Mine · Mar 19, 2008, 03:59 AM // 03:59

Yeah, but what about Vekk? No way in hell I'm letting him keep that split Water Magic/ Air Magic/ Divine Favor crap he's got when you get him. SH or bust.

cellardweller · Mar 19, 2008, 04:09 AM // 04:09

I've seen no evidence to suggest that they do. Every account I've seen has been anectodal and far from rigorous.

MasterSasori · Mar 19, 2008, 04:37 AM // 04:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bront

Do some Heroes use the same skill bar better than others?

People swear that certain heros perform better than others. However, there is no solid reasons we should believe in this as there is no justified proof other than the testaments of certain individuals.

It really would be intriguing if certain heroes have better AI on certain builds than others but more than likely its just a mindset that Hero A is better than Hero B due to past experiences and hearsay.

Coloneh · Mar 19, 2008, 05:10 AM // 05:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Momir

the reason why they act differently is because all heros are set to certain attributes. Dunk is healing, Tahlk is prot, Ogden is divine. So they use the skills differently then the other heros would. Their AI's are set differently too. Thats why when i need a prot, i grab Tahlk, when I need an earth ele i grab Zhed, and so on. Just chekc their pre set skills and keep them to that attribute and you're good to go.

objection! speculation... you just made that up off the top of your head....

anyways, they seem exactly the same to me. ive been hit by 2 RoF's at the exact same time plenty of times.

mr_me · Mar 19, 2008, 05:13 AM // 05:13

I think all NPC characters in game have the same AI, even though there are difrences between heroes of the same proffession: Razah, Vekk, Zhed and Pyre, unlike the human-raced heroes who share the proffeson, do not spread nor get disease to and from humans in game, though they will get from thier enemys who share thier race. Moreover, Zhed is more likely to get hit by EOF spells (such as Sh), than Vekk, due to his big size.

Bront · Mar 19, 2008, 06:43 AM // 06:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Momir

the reason why they act differently is because all heros are set to certain attributes. Dunk is healing, Tahlk is prot, Ogden is divine. So they use the skills differently then the other heros would. Their AI's are set differently too. Thats why when i need a prot, i grab Tahlk, when I need an earth ele i grab Zhed, and so on. Just chekc their pre set skills and keep them to that attribute and you're good to go.

Realy? I've noticed Tahlk was a better healer. Where did you get this info?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antithesis

I can't say that i've noticed any difference - assuming you spec them with the same armour, attributes and weapons, they should run the same bar the same way. Give Olias a Searing Flames bar and he'll run it flawlessly. Take two Searing Flamers with the same att split, runes and skillbar, but give one a 40/40 set and the other an Hourglass staff and you'll see a difference. Give them the same weapons and they'll be in roughly the same state, depending on who got the agro.

I'll admit it might be equipment related, but it is something I have seen, and in the case of Ogden vs Tahlk, I've tried reequiping them with the same gear, and found I was better off with a Level 17 Tahlk than a Level 20 Ogden (who is plodding slow with heal spells in my experience).

Cathode_Reborn · Mar 19, 2008, 06:50 AM // 06:50

People are just paranoid. Besides species type, they're all the same =\

tmr819 · Mar 19, 2008, 02:42 PM // 14:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bront

Realy? I've noticed Tahlk was a better healer.

I have noticed exactly the same thing. Running the same bar, Tahlkora (originally a prot monk) seems to be a better healer than Dunkoro (originally a healer monk). (I've forgotten Ogden's original spec.) Yet I have had people in PUGs tell me to switch to Dunkoro for a better healer Hero ("because that is what he is supposed to be"), so apparently a lot of people believe there really are AI differences.

But the posts above are correct that there are other variables that may account for these differences: runes, weapons, etc. I hadn't really paid attention to that aspect of these Hero "differences."

kel77 · Mar 19, 2008, 03:19 PM // 15:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Momir

the reason why they act differently is because all heros are set to certain attributes. Dunk is healing, Tahlk is prot, Ogden is divine. So they use the skills differently then the other heros would. Their AI's are set differently too. Thats why when i need a prot, i grab Tahlk, when I need an earth ele i grab Zhed, and so on. Just chekc their pre set skills and keep them to that attribute and you're good to go.

All made up lies, you think anet would really program seperate Ai's for each hero? I'd prefer them to fix the shoddy AI first then to have multiple ones for each class.

emberlights · Mar 19, 2008, 04:31 PM // 16:31

I use to run two searing flame eles, souske and vekk, with the same skill bar. Saw no difference, used skills at the same time even.

Shadowphoenix · Mar 28, 2008, 08:35 PM // 20:35

Sorry to revive this post and this is my first post ^_^ in the forum, but I notice that some heroes have certain properties than others, for example some rumors says that Livia has better properties for MM than Olias others says that Olias is better suit for MM than other necro heroes because of the initials skills and that's the way I put my heroes builds, correct me if I'm wrong is just that I want to take out the potential of my heroes a 100% and get a better synergy for my heroes and by the way I have visited this forum several times this forum and Sab and Antithesis have a fan :P (joking) but I like other peoples ideas, if you please answer me this I will appreciate it ^_^

Coloneh · Mar 28, 2008, 09:06 PM // 21:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowphoenix

Sorry to revive this post and this is my first post ^_^ in the forum, but I notice that some heroes have certain properties than others, for example some rumors says that Livia has better properties for MM than Olias others says that Olias is better suit for MM than other necro heroes because of the initials skills and that's the way I put my heroes builds, correct me if I'm wrong is just that I want to take out the potential of my heroes a 100% and get a better synergy for my heroes and by the way I have visited this forum several times this forum and Sab and Antithesis have a fan :P (joking) but I like other peoples ideas, if you please answer me this I will appreciate it ^_^

.....*blink*..... come again?

MasterSasori · Mar 28, 2008, 09:30 PM // 21:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowphoenix

Sorry to revive this post and this is my first post ^_^ in the forum, but I notice that some heroes have certain properties than others, for example some rumors says that Livia has better properties for MM than Olias others says that Olias is better suit for MM than other necro heroes because of the initials skills and that's the way I put my heroes builds, correct me if I'm wrong is just that I want to take out the potential of my heroes a 100% and get a better synergy for my heroes and by the way I have visited this forum several times this forum and Sab and Antithesis have a fan :P (joking) but I like other peoples ideas, if you please answer me this I will appreciate it ^_^

Some people swear it makes a difference, others swear it doesn't. But the one thing that holds true is that no one is willing to spend time to quantify which hero is better. If someone does (fat chance), he or she will have to make a very convincing argument before anyone would believe.

Shadowphoenix · Mar 28, 2008, 10:07 PM // 22:07

I see so there is no fact that a hero work better with a build than others and you're right MasterSasori there's no fact that a heroe will work with an especific build/class/attribute for a 100% it will be a plenty of dedication and time to do that and Coloneh I do not want to make a thread that a hero is better than others for an especific attribute, is just that I was curious that's all, take care guys and thanx.

Bront · Mar 31, 2008, 04:31 AM // 04:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterSasori

Some people swear it makes a difference, others swear it doesn't. But the one thing that holds true is that no one is willing to spend time to quantify which hero is better. If someone does (fat chance), he or she will have to make a very convincing argument before anyone would believe.

Given all the other variables, it's hard to prove. Did my team wipe with Ogden and do ok with Talkhora because of Ogden? Or was it simply luck or a human (or other hero) screw up?

Still, after watching Ogden use his skill bar, he does just seem slower. I've seen him sit on energy and skills for no reason. But it's not like I don't have other monk alternitives.

Yuhe Ji · Mar 31, 2008, 04:45 AM // 04:45

I have never noticed the difference. The only reasons my heroes ever underperformed after I changed their attribute was due to a lack of runes/weapons. @Momir, I thought Zhed came as a water ele.