Curse

Mickey · Mar 27, 2008, 12:20 AM // 00:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antithesis

Yeah i run that too on occasion and dagnammit, i couldn't improve upon it. Rac knows his builds

I'm in the fortunate position of running 6 Heroes using 2 accounts and take variants of Sab's and Rac's in HM. There's great synergy between the two with skills like Weaken Armour, Rigor Mortis, Order of Pain, Splinter Weapon, Mark of Pain and Barbs which frees up a few slots on Rac's for things like Go for the Eyes, Chest Thumper and Epidemic. The trouble is my party size is only 7 (i logout a/c 2 so heroes will follow my toon) which makes the D/N more important as a healer than intended. If i could slot another healer in there it'd be gold...i'm yet to try it using my Monk (don't like it) or Resto / Channel Rit (loving it).

It works in more areas than most. I ran 3 x Touch ranger vs Cyndr.

PS Where's your avatar gone Mickey?

It was getting old, I need a new baby.

Yeah, I got to Cyndr, then I realized an MM was worthless.

Richardt · Mar 27, 2008, 04:06 AM // 04:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mickey

Yeah, I got to Cyndr, then I realized an MM was worthless.

I think this was a common mistake in a lot of Dungeons early on-I know we made them (and I'm not afraid to admit it!).

kobey · Mar 27, 2008, 04:37 AM // 04:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mickey

Sadly, Sabway does not work everywhere. A.k.a Cyndr the Mountain Heart.

hehe i was lazy and brough it anyway ... the mm became a full time prot necro with the rare, ocassional minions

DarkSpirit · Mar 27, 2008, 07:23 AM // 07:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antithesis

Yeah i run that too on occasion and dagnammit, i couldn't improve upon it. Rac knows his builds

In those troublesome areas I have been running these with my Paragon:

1) Sab's N/Mo MM:

[skill]Jagged Bones[/skill][skill]Animate Bone Minions[/skill][skill]Death Nova[/skill][skill]Blood of the Master[/skill][skill]Remove Hex[/skill][skill]Protective Spirit[/skill][skill]Aegis[/skill][skill]Signet of Lost Souls[/skill]

Code: OANDUslfOL1qAaAP0SqHBkqK

2) Rac's modified Orders N/Rt:

[skill]Order of Pain[/skill][skill]Dark Fury[/skill][skill]Splinter Weapon[/skill][skill]Rip Enchantment[/skill][skill]Mark of Fury[/skill][skill]Vampiric Spirit[/skill][skill]Signet of Lost Souls[/skill][skill]Death Pact Signet[/skill]

Code: OAhkQoG7RIqjhYSgx2dQ1ZWVN5C

3) Song of Purification Paragon:

[skill]Aggressive Refrain[/skill][skill]Mending Refrain[/skill][skill]Song of Purification[/skill][skill]Anthem of Flame[/skill][skill]Aria of Zeal[/skill][skill]Wild Throw[/skill][skill]Blazing Spear[/skill][skill]Signet of Return[/skill]

Code: OQCjUqnK6OubVsIuCrhLyKY5NA

Henchies: Mhenlo, Herta, Talon, Cynn

Antithesis · Mar 27, 2008, 08:06 AM // 08:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

2) Rac's modified Orders N/Rt:

[skill]Order of Pain[/skill][skill]Dark Fury[/skill][skill]Splinter Weapon[/skill][skill]Rip Enchantment[/skill][skill]Mark of Fury[/skill][skill]Vampiric Spirit[/skill][skill]Signet of Lost Souls[/skill][skill]Death Pact Signet[/skill]

Code: OAhkQoG7RIqjhYSgx2dQ1ZWVN5C

Interesting elite, I hadn't considered that as an option. I'd be inclined to drop Mark of Fury for Masochism and put the Hero on Avoid Combat. But that'd impair the Elite....hmmm. Thanks, i'll give it a crack.

DarkSpirit · Mar 27, 2008, 08:18 AM // 08:18

Also for those who do not like the SS N/Rt in Sab's, this is what I changed it into:

[skill]Plague Signet[/skill][skill]Weaken Armor[/skill][skill]Enfeebling Blood[/skill][skill]Barbs[/skill][skill]Rip Enchantment[/skill][skill]Foul Feast[/skill][skill]Signet of Lost Souls[/skill][skill]Death Pact Signet[/skill]

Code: OAhjYwHc4QECfC2BlB7OJgVVJXA

Plague Signet skill description needs to be updated. It is now:

Quote:

Transfer all negative Conditions with their remaining durations lengthened by 100...180% from yourself to target foe. (50% failure chance with curses 4 or less.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antithesis

Interesting elite, I hadn't considered that as an option. I'd be inclined to drop Mark of Fury for Masochism and put the Hero on Avoid Combat. But that'd impair the Elite....hmmm. Thanks, i'll give it a crack.

Vampiric Spirit helps with the sacrifices but she seems to only cast it when she needs the health though. If you dont mind micro-managing alittle to cast it for her, it should work well and it lasts for 16 seconds per cast with her attributes.

Richardt · Mar 27, 2008, 04:25 PM // 16:25

DarkSpirit, how does it fair in HM?

I'm actually not a big fan of the D/N healer/orders (sorry Rac

) and I've been trying to find ways to incorporate more damage and healing (keeping the spirit of the D/N, but not actually using the D/N lol).

So I'm interested in seeing if Mhenlo works as your only healer-in my experience Mhenlo does fine right up until his first bump on the head and after which he acts like a complete moron.

DarkSpirit · Mar 27, 2008, 05:32 PM // 17:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richardt

DarkSpirit, how does it fair in HM?

I'm actually not a big fan of the D/N healer/orders (sorry Rac

) and I've been trying to find ways to incorporate more damage and healing (keeping the spirit of the D/N, but not actually using the D/N lol).

So I'm interested in seeing if Mhenlo works as your only healer-in my experience Mhenlo does fine right up until his first bump on the head and after which he acts like a complete moron.

I only test in HM.

I assume that if it works in HM it shouldn't have a problem in NM. It works fine for me.

I may want to test it further tonight replacing Mark of Fury on the N/Rt with Masochism instead and see if that helps alittle with the slight increased energy cost (3e) from vampiric spirit, but I haven't noticed that she runs into any energy problems either. Anyway, like I said, she only casts Vampiric Spirit when she needs the health so you may want to micro-manage alittle and cast it for her just before a battle but it lasts 16s per cast.

Richardt · Mar 27, 2008, 07:27 PM // 19:27

I'll give a shot tonight and see how it fairs.

DarkSpirit · Mar 28, 2008, 06:34 AM // 06:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richardt

I'll give a shot tonight and see how it fairs.

I updated the Paragon hero build with more defensive skills, borrowing some ideas from Antithesis. I think the N/Rt works fine, with alittle baby sitting on the vampiric spirit, even without Masochism.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richardt

So I'm interested in seeing if Mhenlo works as your only healer-in my experience Mhenlo does fine right up until his first bump on the head and after which he acts like a complete moron.

If you are using a warrior instead of a paragon you may want to take Mhenlo and Lina, replacing Cynn.

Super Igor · Apr 01, 2008, 11:38 PM // 23:38

Take 3 MMs with Jagged Bones and 40/40 DM sets = fun and synergy.

~Super Igor

~

Pandora's box · Apr 02, 2008, 09:50 PM // 21:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antithesis

Interesting elite, I hadn't considered that as an option. I'd be inclined to drop Mark of Fury for Masochism and put the Hero on Avoid Combat. But that'd impair the Elite....hmmm. Thanks, i'll give it a crack.

Unfortunately heroes don't seem to know when to use [skill]vampiric spirit[/skill]

Super Igor · Apr 02, 2008, 11:07 PM // 23:07

Nobody does, that skill is baed.

~Super Igor

~

DarkSpirit · Apr 03, 2008, 01:19 AM // 01:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pandora's box

Unfortunately heroes don't seem to know when to use [skill]vampiric spirit[/skill]

They do use it, but only when they really need the health. Micro-manageable since it lasts for 16s each time but no biggie even if you dont have it up all the time too.

angmar_nite · Apr 03, 2008, 01:59 AM // 01:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

Take 3 MMs with Jagged Bones and 40/40 DM sets = fun and synergy.

~Super Igor

~

lol what? BotM = dead mm.

Pandora's box · Apr 03, 2008, 10:25 AM // 10:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

They do use it, but only when they really need the health. Micro-manageable since it lasts for 16s each time but no biggie even if you dont have it up all the time too.

I've tried to combine Vampiric Spirit with 1-energy health sacrificing necro spells. Should be an unstoppable mechanism I thought. You sacrifice health and pay 1+3=4 energy per spell, and you get back most of the sacrificed health because you cast VS first. At the cost of almost nothing you should be able to rapidly spam lots of spells, doing dmg at the same time.

To be sure my necro would be surrounded by enemies to make this all work, he needs to start with a touch skill, e.g. [skill]vampiric touch[/skill]. Than cast [skill]vampiric spirit[/skill] and next the life sacrificing 1 engergy spells. But my heroes don't understand this meganism. They cast Vampiric spirit at moments when its hardly effective.

DarkSpirit · Apr 03, 2008, 04:04 PM // 16:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pandora's box

To be sure my necro would be surrounded by enemies to make this all work, he needs to start with a touch skill, e.g. [skill]vampiric touch[/skill]. Than cast [skill]vampiric spirit[/skill] and next the life sacrificing 1 engergy spells. But my heroes don't understand this meganism. They cast Vampiric spirit at moments when its hardly effective.

It is almost always a bad idea to expect heroes to know how to cast skill sequences. There are very very few skill sequences that they actually use well.

Which is why the BHA then Epidemic then Volley skill sequence may look good on paper, but it doesn't work well in practice because heroes tend to mess it all up by casting Volley most of the time and hardly casting Epidemic.

Richardt · Apr 03, 2008, 05:20 PM // 17:20

Just keep in mind Heroes don't combo well-so it's best to keep their skills simple and easy to use.

More complicated builds are best forced upon your buddies

Super Igor · Apr 04, 2008, 08:29 PM // 20:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by angmar_nite

lol what? BotM = dead mm.

lol that was a joke honestly, but rly, dont take BoTM and take heal are or something similar, they bomb anyway, or take OotL MM to heal spam other minions instead of one jagged but the bomb..., easy as long as u know the skills well and very very fun. xD

~Super Igor

~