Curse

Bront · May 15, 2008, 07:23 AM // 07:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

With 20 minions, that is a total of 20 X 35 X 8 = 5600hp heal, for a 8-man team, during the minions's first death.

Not on the first death...

It's 35 per, or about half of heal party, but triggerable on minion cycling.

There is no time when you'll kill all 20 of your minions, but it is extra healing to help take pressure off the monk, and take the sting out of AoE spikes that will kill minions.

DarkSpirit · May 15, 2008, 07:51 AM // 07:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bront

There is no time when you'll kill all 20 of your minions, but it is extra healing to help take pressure off the monk, and take the sting out of AoE spikes that will kill minions.

Of course that is only theory, dont expect all 20 minions to be setup to die at once.

Potentially each minion dying would grant a 35hp heal to the party. That is already a 35 X 8 = 280hp heal across the entire party of 8, per minion death. The point with 2 MM bombers is to have enough frequency of minion deaths as to make Dwayna Sorrow worth while. Jagged Bones on both the MMs would help to recycle the minions.

More minions, more minion deaths to trigger Soul Reaping goodness + more damage mitigation + more damage from death nova + more party heals from Dwayna Sorrow.

Washi · May 15, 2008, 08:07 AM // 08:07

the problem is you will not get the healing when you need it, but when a minion decides to die. So it's kinda risky and I don't think it would work very well in HM.

DarkSpirit · May 15, 2008, 03:19 PM // 15:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Washi

the problem is you will not get the healing when you need it, but when a minion decides to die. So it's kinda risky and I don't think it would work very well in HM.

All my testing are done only in HM.

It works well in HM because minions die often from taking high damage hits. Bone minions are great for this task because you get 2 per corpse with only 5s recharge.

You do get over healing often, but that is not a big issue as long as there are enough corpses. The first mob can be more difficult before you get your minions but that is mitigated by how quickly MMs can ramp up a bone minion army during battle.

Whenever I use sabway I bring 2 healers (Mhenlo and the restore N/Rt). I wanted to see if this build can survive with the same combination but replacing the restore N/Rt with a DS MM bomber in HM and it has.

Mind Wallaby · May 15, 2008, 04:10 PM // 16:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

The first mob can be more difficult before you get your minions but that is mitigated by how quickly MMs can ramp up a bone minion army during battle.

Do you have any problems keeping your army alive between battles?

DarkSpirit · May 15, 2008, 05:00 PM // 17:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mind Wallaby

Do you have any problems keeping your army alive between battles?

Not really, because they kill quite fast, even in HM, as long as the mob you are fighting with leave exploitable corpses, you should be fine most of the time.

Since I dont bring [[Blood of the Master], you can lose minions if you afk too long in between fights, but having [[Feast for the Dead] helps out, if the mobs are far apart for the area.

pipo · May 16, 2008, 08:56 PM // 20:56

does anyone know builds that synergize well with a warrior ?
id love to do HM and stuff on my warrior
also does anyone have a warrior build that synergizes well with the hero builds?

stretchs · May 16, 2008, 09:09 PM // 21:09

the 3 necros synergize amazing with Sabs builds, I have vanq'd all 3 continents with basically his bars. You just get up in there, block things up, start killing the high priority target and the minions then come in and make it gg

Chthon · May 17, 2008, 02:32 AM // 02:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Washi

the problem is you will not get the healing when you need it, but when a minion decides to die. So it's kinda risky and I don't think it would work very well in HM.

You might think so, but...

1. You also have to remember that Sabway's original party healing was also pretty random -- the Spirit of Life dies when it dies, and the hero AI just holds PwK as long as it can. Relying on minion deaths for heals isn't going to be any more random, just not less random.

2. Party healing is usually needed after a big AoE lands. And big AoE tends to kill minion in addition to hurting players. So there's at least some tendency for the heal to arrive when you need it.

3. The MB getting low enough on health to use Taste of Death (assuming it's equipped) is often a sign that the monks are stressed out and the whole party is under pressure. Again, there's at least some tendency for the heal to arrive when needed.

pastry · May 17, 2008, 02:08 PM // 14:08

What about Ritualist set for restoration, Sabway, and damage henchmen?

DarkSpirit · May 17, 2008, 04:38 PM // 16:38

The reason why I think sabway uses N/Rts instead of primary rits is because rits have very few worthy energy management skills outside of channeling and most of these would take up the elite slots. N/Rts tend to work better as they can be effective without bringing an energy management skill. Primary rits are a different story.

deluxe · May 17, 2008, 06:52 PM // 18:52

I like heavy damage buffs, running same old 3-necro gets boring.

[support para;OQWkIMlpJjmTROHo7sw+4cs7WeD]
[buff para;OQWkIMlpZiyzDOHEhvwW4Ks7WeD]
[orders dervish;OgSkQoq6axqz2dSYIuvhX2L+9RA]
and me:
[donkeyball z;OQASEZJT7gSFQFUFaF/EKFCA]

Make sure you have 14 command on 1st para, and 13 leadership on 2nd para (fury breakpoint).
Ofcourse the warrior is totally up to yourself.
Add 2 warrior or other physical henchmen and the 2 regular healing henchies.

edit: updates.

Tyla · May 17, 2008, 06:54 PM // 18:54

^Can you replace the Warrior with a Ranger and run some ugly gimmick like...ES Ranger?

deluxe · May 17, 2008, 06:59 PM // 18:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

^Can you replace the Warrior with a Ranger and run some ugly gimmick like...ES Ranger?

well, thumpers or spearchuckers use adrenaline, so that would work.

btw what is an ES ranger?

Tyla · May 17, 2008, 07:02 PM // 19:02

Well I tried out the ES Ranger, and it worked out fine in a 4-way DoA trip...well, until the cave in Gloom....

1 Divert Monk won't sort out 12 hexes...

And yes, it knocklocks!

To your edit, it's an Earthshaker Ranger. Basically I used it because I want a DoA statue in my HoM.

I Is Special · May 18, 2008, 01:43 PM // 13:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

That is 35hp heal for each party member each time a minion dies. Theoretically, with Jagged Bones, you can have an unlimited supply of minions. With 20 minions, that is a total of 20 X 35 X 8 = 5600hp heal, for a 8-man team, during the minions's first death.

The current build setup stands as this, but I am still tweaking it:

[MM1 N/Mo;OANDUslfOL1qAaQpGQqHtkqK]
[MM2 N/Mo;OANDUshtSLVVBKgYCLCJgGNVVA]
[Curse/Channel N/Rt;OAhkYgHcoIqU1WZwujdAGDjYyVVF]

In any case, I recommend bringing Mhenlo along for more healing in HM. Henchies used: Mehnlo, Herta, Cynn, and Talon.

Variants:
Weapon of Fury can be replaced by SS
Feast for the Dead can be replaced by another Taste of Death if you are in an area where mobs are not far apart

Since i dont have the three necros, i used this:

[MM1 N/Mo;OANDUslfSLVVBYCLCBE1DJgVVA]
^Minor Soulreaping and DM runes, everything else is +health.
-Brought soul feast onto this MM because it had higher Soulreaping and i felt i was gimping myself
-I replaced it with Remove Hex which i originally put on MM2, but then replaced that with a Healing prayers hex removal for the extra heal.
-Bringing soul feast made me have to bring Infuse condition which i switched for FotD on the 2nd MM. Both have the same Deathmagic rank, so it didn't really change anything.

[MM2 N/mo;OANDUshtOL1qAaQpO93IGtqK]
^Minor DM rune, everything else is +health.
-I'm not sure whether it would be more efficient to have Deathnova on this MM or on the other. Anyone have an idea?
-I also put D Kiss because i thought it would work well with the extra Enchants running around this build, and since i'm a warrior I can dish out the initial DPS without needing Putrid Bile to bring up the first minions (plus i'm too lazy to get faction to unlock it x_X)

[Int/warder Me/E;OQZEArszll0A5wofBZAK8KxC]

I use Minor Deathmagic runes because its just 1 less minion, and with two MMs this doesnt make too much of a difference compared to the 150 less health they'd have together.

This worked very well for me yesterday. My main is a warrior and i was using Godmode, however i used it sparingly to see how the build would function on its own. I took 2 figher hench, 1 healer, and the interupt henchmen.

Paul Dawg · May 19, 2008, 01:16 AM // 01:16

Sabway is fantastic with a warrior. You need someone to do a little physical damage, especially at the beginning, before you've started your minion pipeline. Godmode warriors are always good, and easy W/P skills like ["go for the eyes!"] synergize nicely with the minions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pipo

does anyone know builds that synergize well with a warrior ?
id love to do HM and stuff on my warrior
also does anyone have a warrior build that synergizes well with the hero builds?

DarkSpirit · May 19, 2008, 04:16 PM // 16:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Is Special

Since i dont have the three necros, i used this:

[MM1 N/Mo;OANDUslfSLVVBYCLCBE1DJgVVA]
^Minor Soulreaping and DM runes, everything else is +health.
-Brought soul feast onto this MM because it had higher Soulreaping and i felt i was gimping myself
-I replaced it with Remove Hex which i originally put on MM2, but then replaced that with a Healing prayers hex removal for the extra heal.
-Bringing soul feast made me have to bring Infuse condition which i switched for FotD on the 2nd MM. Both have the same Deathmagic rank, so it didn't really change anything.

[MM2 N/mo;OANDUshtOL1qAaQpO93IGtqK]
^Minor DM rune, everything else is +health.
-I'm not sure whether it would be more efficient to have Deathnova on this MM or on the other. Anyone have an idea?
-I also put D Kiss because i thought it would work well with the extra Enchants running around this build, and since i'm a warrior I can dish out the initial DPS without needing Putrid Bile to bring up the first minions (plus i'm too lazy to get faction to unlock it x_X)

[Int/warder Me/E;OQZEArszll0A5wofBZAK8KxC]

I use Minor Deathmagic runes because its just 1 less minion, and with two MMs this doesnt make too much of a difference compared to the 150 less health they'd have together.

This worked very well for me yesterday. My main is a warrior and i was using Godmode, however i used it sparingly to see how the build would function on its own. I took 2 figher hench, 1 healer, and the interupt henchmen.

That is an interesting change. Do heroes use Cure Hex well? Do you have a problem with res when Mhenlo dies?

Dwayna's Kiss can be a good choice for this build and also on an orders build. It is either that or an offensive Putrid Bile for me. But I am unsure how effective it is with only 10 to healing and no divine favor. In any case, GWEN Mhenlo does bring Dwayna's Kiss in his bar and I presume he has better attributes for that, even without runes.

The purpose of the third curse necro is to provide damage buff and punish blocking, although your build has more defensive elements, it has fewer offensive but I believe it is workable.

Edit: Cure Hex seems to work fine with heroes contrary to the other thread.

Bront · May 20, 2008, 12:44 AM // 00:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Do heroes use Cure Hex well?

They use it as a hex cure, so they might end up overhealing, but they use it well and will target hexed players with lower health first.

JoeKnowMo · May 21, 2008, 01:22 AM // 01:22

I usually run a hybrid monk alongside the N/Rt healer when running Sabway. I've been trying to get a hero to prot effectively without having to micro without much success... until now.

I swapped out the N/Rt healer in Sabway for:

[build=OANDYYzvSaE3V1DaRrEVVJg5VA]

Tried it out in a Maishang vanq. The build rarely had energy problems which I didn't expect given two 10e spells. Everything casts in under 1s except for [[Shield of Absorption] which has a 10s recharge so it's not too much a liability.

I played a redbarring HBoon without prots (except for RoF) because I wanted the hero to handle all the protting.

[build prof=Mo/E Healing=12+1+1 Protection=8+1 Divine=10+1 box] [Signet of rejuvenation][Patient Spirit][Dwayna's Kiss][Heal Party][Healer's Boon][GoLE][RoF][Cure hex][/build]

I ran this a couple of weeks ago and wanted to run more tests before posting, but I haven't gotten a chance to play since and I won't be able to do so for another 2 weeks. Thought I'd throw this out there for others to try out and comment on.

Edit: Fixed the HBoon build. HBoon + WoH on the same bar is insanity.