Curse

Mr Pink57 · Feb 18, 2008, 04:21 AM // 04:21

Still the greatest battle rez.

pink

Coraline Jones · Feb 18, 2008, 02:47 PM // 14:47

I've been playing around with Sab's build for a long time but I noticed that the N/Mo MM using Extinguish instead of Remove Hex tended to work out much better in the long run.

What I noticed is that many monsters in the game will enjoy condition spreading through disease (such as Tainted Flesh spamming), AOE burning, or ranger traps. Extinguish pretty much kills a majority of these annoyances. Without it, disease becomes a severe annoyance as H/H pass it back and forth to each other and it takes forever to get rid of it with normal single-target condition removal skills, or you pretty much have to wait for your party to recover from walking over a crippling trap.

I don't see much energy management problems with the MM anyway, as the minions die fast on purpose, and if you can keep the minion factory going, then it's never a problem.

In short, with the MM necro running Extinguish and the N/Rt running Mend Body and Soul, you have about 90% of all of your condition removal for the whole game. With a single monk running something like Mend Condition, it's extremely hard to put a condition that lasts longer than 5 seconds on anybody.

I have found hex removal to be another story. A single Remove Hex is strong against a single necromancer or mesmer that plans to use a few powerful hexes against a single target (such as Backfire). But what I've seen is that monsters in PvE rarely behave like this. Instead, the most hex-intensive areas simply flood your party with hexes because they are either AOE hexes, or they stack hexes on a critical target.

Remove Hex seems to help only when the hexes are so heavily stacked that the party member is now having -10 health degen and s/he is going to die very soon unless you start using hex removal because Dwayna's Kiss can only get you so far.

What's your opinion on this?

Antithesis · Feb 18, 2008, 03:03 PM // 15:03

I always run [skill=text]Song of Purification[/skill] Paragon with [skill=text]Hexbreaker Aria[/skill] on the bar. It handles the party-wide condition removal while the N/Rt cleans up the rest. Hexbreaker keeps the squishies clean of AoE hexes while the N/Mo cleans up the physicals with Remove Hex.

This offers a balanced approach to party-wide and priority hex/condition removal.

brakner · Feb 18, 2008, 04:26 PM // 16:26

Quote:

Remove Hex seems to help only when the hexes are so heavily stacked that the party member is now having -10 health degen and s/he is going to die very soon unless you start using hex removal because Dwayna's Kiss can only get you so far.

What's your opinion on this?

I always run this as my Curse N/Mz bar

N/Mz
[skill]Spiteful Spirit[/skill][skill]Reckless Haste[/skill][skill]Enfeebling Blood[/skill][skill]Barbs[/skill][skill]Mark of Pain[/skill][skill]Power Drain[/skill][skill]Leech Signet[/skill][skill]Signet of Lost Souls[/skill]

Curses: 12+1+2
Soul Reaping: 9+1
Inspiration Magic: 9

if in a heavy hex area I swap [skill]Leech Signet[/skill] for [skill]Hex Eater Signet[/skill]

Basically gives your SS nec some good backup +Energy skills, interrupts and Hex removal if needed.

Sab · Feb 18, 2008, 05:58 PM // 17:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coraline Jones

What's your opinion on this?

Tbh I put Remove Hex there so people will stop complaining that there's no hex removal. =/ I never found single hex removals (especially on a hero) to be that useful in most of PvE. The mobs usually stack too many hexes far too efficiently for single removals to handle, not to mention most of them are junk hexes that you can just heal through. The chances that they'll actually remove something worth removing is pretty small.

I tend to still run Extinguish on the MM to handle - as you said - Rotting, traps, mass cripples etc., and I stick Ancestor's or Splinter on the SS instead of Pure Was.

Mohnzh · Feb 18, 2008, 06:00 PM // 18:00

I haven't noticed a change, but I try not to let my people die that often, either.

*EDIT* This is in response to the question of the DP signet nerf making a difference. So many responses bumped this to a new page.

brakner · Feb 18, 2008, 06:26 PM // 18:26

Curious as to why none of the SS Curse Nec builds have mark of pain? I found when my SS Nec casts it and the 10 little level 13 minions start pounding on the mob stuff around it takes huge damage. I have seen two melee mobs beside the original go down in under 10 seconds and they weren't even targeted, basically it was all SS and MoP since I had zero AoE Heroes or Hench at the time.

Also, don't you find that the more stuff with faster recharge you give them to cast the more they focus on it? I gave my SS Nec Ancestors and he kept missing SS and RH when they were available. When I removed it and gave him the interupts back he always hit SS on the 10 second mark. ( also had way more energy it seemed too. )

P.S. Also had to Shift-Click Extinguish as Olias is a bit to liberal with its use. I find it easier for me to manage that skill and click it when needed.

Coloneh · Feb 18, 2008, 06:32 PM // 18:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coraline Jones

What's your opinion on this?

bring a monk hench.

like you said, you sometimes need 2 hex removals. you rarely need 2 condition removals.

Sab · Feb 18, 2008, 08:16 PM // 20:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by brakner

Curious as to why none of the SS Curse Nec builds have mark of pain? I found when my SS Nec casts it and the 10 little level 13 minions start pounding on the mob stuff around it takes huge damage. I have seen two melee mobs beside the original go down in under 10 seconds and they weren't even targeted, basically it was all SS and MoP since I had zero AoE Heroes or Hench at the time.

Also, don't you find that the more stuff with faster recharge you give them to cast the more they focus on it? I gave my SS Nec Ancestors and he kept missing SS and RH when they were available. When I removed it and gave him the interupts back he always hit SS on the 10 second mark. ( also had way more energy it seemed too. )

P.S. Also had to Shift-Click Extinguish as Olias is a bit to liberal with its use. I find it easier for me to manage that skill and click it when needed.

Mark of Pain is great when it triggers, but useless when it doesn't. For the most part, between a hero who doesn't know how to look for bunched up mobs, and a wall of minions spreading out aggro, I tend to bring something that has a decent effect every time.

I'm not sure how the AI chooses what to cast, but I know that more Ancestors' = good. They generally manage the bar well, sometimes I disable Reckless or SS to force more casts of the other skills.

brakner · Feb 18, 2008, 08:49 PM // 20:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sab

Mark of Pain is great when it triggers, but useless when it doesn't. For the most part, between a hero who doesn't know how to look for bunched up mobs, and a wall of minions spreading out aggro, I tend to bring something that has a decent effect every time.

I'm not sure how the AI chooses what to cast, but I know that more Ancestors' = good. They generally manage the bar well, sometimes I disable Reckless or SS to force more casts of the other skills.

I will try switching Mz to Rt and take Ancestors again. I will drop MoP for Rip Enchantment and give that a whirl also.

Curious as to why Rip and not Rend? Is it because of the "exploding if you nail a monk" ? Or do you find the "remove 5-9 enchantments" overkill?

MercenaryKnight · Feb 18, 2008, 10:21 PM // 22:21

The only bad thing is how ancestor's rage is based on the level of the character it's cast upon. Which is usually a low level bone minion. But any aoe damage helps I suppose.

Teutonic Paladin · Feb 19, 2008, 01:08 AM // 01:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by brakner

I will try switching Mz to Rt and take Ancestors again. I will drop MoP for Rip Enchantment and give that a whirl also.

Curious as to why Rip and not Rend? Is it because of the "exploding if you nail a monk" ? Or do you find the "remove 5-9 enchantments" overkill?

Recharge is everything here, when I'm stripping an enchantment, I want it gone NOW not when it's almost over anyways.

Mindtrust · Feb 19, 2008, 06:41 PM // 18:41

Thanks Sab

I just tried your build today to vanquish and do a mission in HM i could just space-c through it, thumbs up for posting and sharing it!

Mr Pink57 · Feb 20, 2008, 03:27 AM // 03:27

I'm finding I like guardian over Aegis regardless of party size. The hero seems to use it pretty well and due to its recharge I find it much more useful when actually needed vs a 30sec cool down.

pink

macie28 · Feb 20, 2008, 08:44 AM // 08:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sab

Try Icy Veins, or Spoil Victor (att points in Channeling -> Blood).

So I have Icy Veins now on my N/Rt Resto with Ancestor's Rage (I find it more useful than Splinter, sure dmg over conditional) and my MM hero i swapped Shield of Regeneration or Divert Hexes, and added Putrid Bile, I find that I never have problems with my minion factory and Putrid Bile gives a bit more oomph to my MM rather than the bleeding I get from the Jagged Horrors from Jagged Bones. What do you guys think?

Oh, the Death Pact Signet nerf sucks and unnecessary on Anet's part (imo, its drawback is big enough to warrant the 2 sec cast time), but it's effect on this build shouldn't be that big, unless you're doing something really wrong.

So far, I've gotten Guardians on Elona + Cantha, vanquished alot of maps and have done many dungeons HM. Thanks for sharing the builds Sab, and all the input from the posters. HM is fun now.

Sab · Feb 20, 2008, 09:42 AM // 09:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by brakner

Curious as to why Rip and not Rend? Is it because of the "exploding if you nail a monk" ? Or do you find the "remove 5-9 enchantments" overkill?

I have Rip disabled most of the time, it's really only used to remove prots and other stuff that stop me from killing. Mobs usually don't cover their enchants so a single removal works fine. Rend or Gaze works better if you need to remove stacks, of course.

Quote:

Originally Posted by macie28

So I have Icy Veins now on my N/Rt Resto with Ancestor's Rage (I find it more useful than Splinter, sure dmg over conditional) and my MM hero i swapped Shield of Regeneration or Divert Hexes, and added Putrid Bile, I find that I never have problems with my minion factory and Putrid Bile gives a bit more oomph to my MM rather than the bleeding I get from the Jagged Horrors from Jagged Bones. What do you guys think?

Putrid Bile is pretty nice, I use it whenever I can. Jagged is there to ensure there'll be a constant stream of minions. If you're getting enough minions from corpses alone, then by all means feel free to change the elite.

Quote:

Originally Posted by macie28

Oh, the Death Pact Signet nerf sucks and unnecessary on Anet's part (imo, its drawback is big enough to warrant the 2 sec cast time), but it's effect on this build shouldn't be that big, unless you're doing something really wrong.

It's not that big a deal tbh, now it's just a reusable Res Sig. If it gets to the point where the Necros aren't ressing fast enough, there's something wrong with the defense of the team, and they'd probably party wipe with the old DPS anyway.

Mr Pink57 · Feb 20, 2008, 10:12 AM // 10:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by macie28

So I have Icy Veins now on my N/Rt Resto with Ancestor's Rage

I just started doing this myself vs splinter, main reason was Splinter dies off so fast that its gone before recharge. Also there have been too many times where Olias gets splinter vs me (paragon) or any other physical. Also they will cast AR on allies not just party members.

What attribute spread did you go with? I went SR 10+1+1 Resto 11 Channeling 10

pink

brakner · Feb 20, 2008, 04:07 PM // 16:07

Tried something interesting last night. Was working on modifying the builds for nasty bosses like Cynder and Shiro, so I tried Master of Whispers (Curse) as a N/Mz again. This time I chose Domination instead of Inspiration.

I replaced [skill]Ancestors' Rage[/skill][skill]Death Pact Signet[/skill]with[skill]Empathy[/skill][skill]Power Spike[/skill]

Changed Channeling 9 to Domination 9

The Empathy target was taking 37 damage each time it attacked, combine this with the 35+ you get from SS and it makes for a nice addition to a Curse Nec. I chose Power Spike as its a nice reusable 12 second interrupt that cause some good damage. You can change that to any of the anti hex spells in the Domination line.

P.S. Power Spike is only 5 energy now

macie28 · Feb 22, 2008, 05:56 AM // 05:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Pink57

I just started doing this myself vs splinter, main reason was Splinter dies off so fast that its gone before recharge. Also there have been too many times where Olias gets splinter vs me (paragon) or any other physical. Also they will cast AR on allies not just party members.

What attribute spread did you go with? I went SR 10+1+1 Resto 11 Channeling 10

pink

SR 10+1+1 Resto 12 Chan 8...usually

T1Cybernetic · Mar 01, 2008, 11:18 PM // 23:18

As a primary necro i have been using a similar build to the ss build the hero would use but what would you recomend i take in the place of the third necro ? or should i just modify the necro build to suit?

Most of the time i run a apply poison/broad headed/epidemic type build on my ranger hero

and it works nice but i thought i should ask and see what everyone else is working with.