Curse

The Meth · Oct 13, 2007, 07:19 PM // 19:19

I've tried this 3 necro build and it has either failed pretty badly or been unbearably slow. So far i've tried it with HM Vloxen Excavations (failed on level #2 twice) HM vizunah (failed horribly) NM Vizunah (won but took over 25 minutes! I don't think I've ever been over 21 before).

The problem is that most of your damage is on death nova minions, which all die in about 5 seconds dealing maybe 300 damage total since heroes never pre death nova everything before battle. Unless you killed 3 or 4 enemies that way you are basically relying on the SS to kill everything else, and it makes me cry when he decides to put SS on a lone enemy when a huge group is nearby. In vloxen it took over 5 mins to kill the boss on the first level because there was literally no damage.

Grats to anyone who can make it work, but this build fails horribly on my heroes, they have no where near enough intelligence to run it right. I'm still convinced anyone who is saying they take on more then 1 group in HM with this is 100% BS.

Popcorn Devil · Oct 14, 2007, 01:02 AM // 01:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meth

I've tried this 3 necro build and it has either failed pretty badly or been unbearably slow. So far i've tried it with HM Vloxen Excavations (failed on level #2 twice) HM vizunah (failed horribly) NM Vizunah (won but took over 25 minutes! I don't think I've ever been over 21 before).

The problem is that most of your damage is on death nova minions, which all die in about 5 seconds dealing maybe 300 damage total since heroes never pre death nova everything before battle. Unless you killed 3 or 4 enemies that way you are basically relying on the SS to kill everything else, and it makes me cry when he decides to put SS on a lone enemy when a huge group is nearby. In vloxen it took over 5 mins to kill the boss on the first level because there was literally no damage.

Grats to anyone who can make it work, but this build fails horribly on my heroes, they have no where near enough intelligence to run it right. I'm still convinced anyone who is saying they take on more then 1 group in HM with this is 100% BS.

I didn't have much luck with it either, I kept getting full party 60% DP on the second or third levels of dungeons in normal mode.

Bibblenorn · Oct 14, 2007, 02:59 AM // 02:59

Has this team been tried in UW or FoW?

I have been really enjoying this team. Makes some areas managable that weren't before. I plan to test out the updated team tomorrow.

Sab · Oct 14, 2007, 03:59 AM // 03:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meth

I've tried this 3 necro build and it has either failed pretty badly or been unbearably slow. So far i've tried it with HM Vloxen Excavations (failed on level #2 twice) HM vizunah (failed horribly) NM Vizunah (won but took over 25 minutes! I don't think I've ever been over 21 before).

The problem is that most of your damage is on death nova minions, which all die in about 5 seconds dealing maybe 300 damage total since heroes never pre death nova everything before battle. Unless you killed 3 or 4 enemies that way you are basically relying on the SS to kill everything else, and it makes me cry when he decides to put SS on a lone enemy when a huge group is nearby. In vloxen it took over 5 mins to kill the boss on the first level because there was literally no damage.

Grats to anyone who can make it work, but this build fails horribly on my heroes, they have no where near enough intelligence to run it right. I'm still convinced anyone who is saying they take on more then 1 group in HM with this is 100% BS.

The three hero builds provide some basic offense and defense, but the five other slots in your party are just as important. If you bring three or four damage dealers, I don't know why you'd have trouble killing.

The Meth · Oct 14, 2007, 05:00 AM // 05:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sab

The three hero builds provide some basic offense and defense, but the five other slots in your party are just as important. If you bring three or four damage dealers, I don't know why you'd have trouble killing.
If Soul Reaping is going to get nerfed, it will be because of its current abuse in HA, not because of its abuse in PvE.

Even if you could run it with only 1 other dedicated healer the problem is its still horribly inefficient. The HA jagged build was decent in pvp, but vs lvl 28-30 mobs the minions are useless for tanking or damage, and the necro uses death nova as bad as he possibly can. If you really have to have the whole infinite energy fueled by soul reaping a normal mm with fiend/vamp/shambling/whatever works fine. The ss requires a lot of micro to work right but its worth it due to the awesomeness of curse necros. The n/rt seems just to have a few rather bad skill choices. Vengeful and weapon of remedy are great in pvp where most attacks are <70ish damage, but in pve its barely a dent in the damage, I would recommend weapon of shadow to dish out lots of blind and spirit light weapon which is far more healing the vengeful will ever have. It's still rather mediocre but at least you don't wipe instantly in hard areas.

Yes I wish i could bring 4 other damage dealers but just you try to tell cynn to take rodgorts and savannah heat.

If anet nerfs soulreaping again and gives this build in pve as the reason I will laugh so very hard. In pve this is about as overpowering as touch rangers (no offense to touch rangers)

Kaida the Heartless · Oct 14, 2007, 08:21 AM // 08:21

The build works fine. You're just doing it wrong (pic anyone?)

I run with a monk friend using 6 Heroes and he barely needs to heal anything. Don't know how you guys are losing so bad :P

The only problem I have had with this build is using it versus hardmode dwarf groups. There are just too many resses for me to keep up. We usually last about 4 minutes before breaking. So, does anyone have any suggestions for some kind of healer lockdown character (mesmer?) that could be used as one of the other slots?

Sab · Oct 14, 2007, 09:29 AM // 09:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meth

Even if you could run it with only 1 other dedicated healer the problem is its still horribly inefficient. The HA jagged build was decent in pvp, but vs lvl 28-30 mobs the minions are useless for tanking or damage, and the necro uses death nova as bad as he possibly can. If you really have to have the whole infinite energy fueled by soul reaping a normal mm with fiend/vamp/shambling/whatever works fine. The ss requires a lot of micro to work right but its worth it due to the awesomeness of curse necros. The n/rt seems just to have a few rather bad skill choices. Vengeful and weapon of remedy are great in pvp where most attacks are <70ish damage, but in pve its barely a dent in the damage, I would recommend weapon of shadow to dish out lots of blind and spirit light weapon which is far more healing the vengeful will ever have. It's still rather mediocre but at least you don't wipe instantly in hard areas.

Yes I wish i could bring 4 other damage dealers but just you try to tell cynn to take rodgorts and savannah heat.

If anet nerfs soulreaping again and gives this build in pve as the reason I will laugh so very hard. In pve this is about as overpowering as touch rangers (no offense to touch rangers)

While there are specialized situations where the build won't work, I can say from experience that the build is solid enough through most of NM and HM.

As for individual skill choices, my heroes manage Death Nova perfectly as the AI has always done. The minions tank just long enough for something to die, and most of the minions blow up with Death Nova on them.

On the N/Rt healer, although Spirit Light Weapon is extremely efficient, the AI doesn't use it properly (see Wiki for details). Weapon of Shadow looks good, but the recharge kills it. WoR and Vengeful works fine for what it does. It mitigates small amount of damage while providing offense. For bulk heals, the heroes use Spirit Light and Mend Body reliably enough and there's little point bringing another red-bar-goes-up skill except for maybe Spirit Transfer.

Snow Bunny · Oct 14, 2007, 03:42 PM // 15:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meth

Even if you could run it with only 1 other dedicated healer the problem is its still horribly inefficient. The HA jagged build was decent in pvp, but vs lvl 28-30 mobs the minions are useless for tanking or damage, and the necro uses death nova as bad as he possibly can. If you really have to have the whole infinite energy fueled by soul reaping a normal mm with fiend/vamp/shambling/whatever works fine. The ss requires a lot of micro to work right but its worth it due to the awesomeness of curse necros. The n/rt seems just to have a few rather bad skill choices. Vengeful and weapon of remedy are great in pvp where most attacks are <70ish damage, but in pve its barely a dent in the damage, I would recommend weapon of shadow to dish out lots of blind and spirit light weapon which is far more healing the vengeful will ever have. It's still rather mediocre but at least you don't wipe instantly in hard areas.

Yes I wish i could bring 4 other damage dealers but just you try to tell cynn to take rodgorts and savannah heat.

If anet nerfs soulreaping again and gives this build in pve as the reason I will laugh so very hard. In pve this is about as overpowering as touch rangers (no offense to touch rangers)

This build works very well. This build was a close variant of the one I used all across Tyria for Guardian. The damage from the minion bomber is quite high, and level 28 mobs die much faster from a microed ss than they do from a microed savannah heat.

If you tweak the build just a little to match your perfect playing style, than it's great.

Look at the build as a template of sorts, which you can modify accordingly. The build works well in most situations. For slaver's, I simply switched out the bomber for a 3rd SSer. I cleared with no difficulty whatsoever.

The Meth · Oct 14, 2007, 04:37 PM // 16:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

This build works very well. This build was a close variant of the one I used all across Tyria for Guardian. The damage from the minion bomber is quite high, and level 28 mobs die much faster from a microed ss than they do from a microed savannah heat.

My problem with it is the minions die so insanely quickly the necro doesnt have time to put death nova on them, so its essentially useless. In all the hard areas i've been in we go into the battle with maybe 2 minions with nova, but otherwise since she waits so long to cast it the minion is dead by the time it completes so all through the battle I hear the nice 'interrupted' sound coming from her.

I won't argue about SS being great, though when I was talking about savannah I was referring to henchies whom you can't micro.

dead man ivan · Oct 15, 2007, 04:57 AM // 04:57

From my own personal experience of clearing Hard Mode in Elona with this build and nothing else(I am a Simple Triple Chop Axe Warrior) I have had problems with only the Searing Flames boss and thats because he was with 3 other Stone Crags( I went for him which was a mistake IMHO)but eventually in a war of attrition I won. I have cleared 24 of 34 areas in Nightfall with Desolation remaining however.
However taking this build in Twin Serpent lakes and another area around it(cant remember the name) the problem was very apparent which is it has absolutely no Hex removal and the SS with 20 points behind not pretty when you are the one who gets it. However I cleared it with another guildie who got a monk with Divert Hexes. I believe the only reason even that area was hard because we are limited to a party of 6.
Also, another minor critique is that build is reliant on its members i.e. this is a pure synergy build and anytime I have to get someone else for it(all Nightfall missions require a hero) it becomes a big big problem. If Sab can experiment and post some alternatives that would be awesome i.e substitutes for each of the characters in his builds .(I am too lazy and also personally I dont think I have the talent) Currently the only limited way I have been doing missions is by taking guildie who gets the required hero and then some whereby we go through the mission pretty quickly. Also, till now I have not had a problem with bodies in Nightfall.

P.S--:I think the whole point of taking minions is that they should die and in my limited experience of 24 areas they seemed more than enough bodies to replace those who die. I will edit this post with Hidden City experience in a day.

EDIT--:Phew Hidden City was hard to say the least. Those freaking Ruby Djinn pop-ups are really irritating. Anyways I have finished it with this build and among the henchies I took Mehnlo Khim Devona and Herta. I think it could be easier if I had another human player and his heroes but the point is I finished the area and although died about 6 times(i.e. party wipe) I could still get up and complete the area. Of course the bosses went down quick courtesy of Pain Inverter .It was hard but not undoable and the point is the builds worked to a certain degree and i am sure with better planning would have worked out better but still I think I did ok

«Ripskin · Oct 15, 2007, 04:58 AM // 04:58

Hey Seb, I just beat nightfall on my monk and I have a question. Obviously I need weapons that go to the characters attributes, but what weapons do you recommend?

Don't leave out greens.

Snow Bunny · Oct 15, 2007, 05:18 AM // 05:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by «Ripskin

Hey Seb, I just beat nightfall on my monk and I have a question. Obviously I need weapons that go to the characters attributes, but what weapons do you recommend?

Don't leave out greens.

I know I'm not Sab, but I just have a Ghials Staff on the N/Rt and a Stonereaper on the SS. My 2nd SS uses a Rajazan's and the Bison cup.

No problems so far.

Sab might be more specialized, but this works fairly well. The Ghials can help with cast times/recharges nicely.

«Ripskin · Oct 15, 2007, 05:34 AM // 05:34

I don't care who tells me :P

Thanks, gonna go farm both of those now. Ah the good ol' days when ghials was 20k a pop..

Oops forgot to say
I just put runes on and left their original weapons as they were, and tried out glints challenge in hard mode for the first time. First time doing the challenge.. not the first time in hard mode.

I happily c-spaced my way through that without any difficulties. But, conditions are the only killer, so I think my new favorite build is restore condition.

Sab · Oct 15, 2007, 06:17 AM // 06:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by «Ripskin

Hey Seb, I just beat nightfall on my monk and I have a question. Obviously I need weapons that go to the characters attributes, but what weapons do you recommend?

Don't leave out greens.

I've been using the Hourglass preorder staff, but if you're planning on fully equipping your heroes, I'd suggest:

Curses Necro - 40/40 Curses set
Resto Necro - 40/40 Resto set (though he'll be holding a pot most of the time)
Death Necro - +30hp, +20% enchanting staff (20/20 Death)

Avatar Exico · Oct 15, 2007, 06:26 AM // 06:26

Sab, i might have posted it in EoTN Section. Is it necessary to have those Attributes like that or can you have max Death (16) 10 Prot 10 Reaping?

Sab · Oct 15, 2007, 06:38 AM // 06:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avatar Exico

Sab, i might have posted it in EoTN Section. Is it necessary to have those Attributes like that or can you have max Death (16) 10 Prot 10 Reaping?

For the MM, naturally I started off by putting 12 in Death. For the rest of the points, I put 9 in Prot because that's the breakpoint for a nine second Aegis. The rest is dumped into Soul Reaping.

Avatar Exico · Oct 15, 2007, 06:40 AM // 06:40

Is it ok to have 16 Death In the MM and rest in Soul Reaping.

blue.rellik · Oct 15, 2007, 06:59 AM // 06:59

If you want a pure MM with no utility then yes

Avatar Exico · Oct 15, 2007, 07:08 AM // 07:08

For this build you must have 12 Death. Im just asking to make sure is all.

cyber88 · Oct 16, 2007, 03:28 AM // 03:28

Tested the builds already. For vanquishing the desert area in tyria, I only encounter problems in 1 area, which is the area populated with A LOT of hydras. I took out the ss & resto nec, made myself a healing monk & bought 2 interupt rangers, 1 fire ele & 1 prot hench & I vanquish that area with ease. My interupt rangers are build for interupting & not damage dealing so my damage output is shit. The rest of the desert is a walk thru the park.

For those who has problems using the builds, try pulling the groups to you instead of rushing. (unless you are a warr or derv which can tank damage.) I play the worst damage output profession (monk) & I vanquished a lot of areas (whether hex heavy or condition heavy or both) & these are 4 man to 6 man areas.

If the build doesn't work for you, please don't flame it. Sab's builds help me a lot so I feel the need to defend it.