Curse

SotiCoto · Oct 09, 2007, 02:37 PM // 14:37

When was the build on the first page updated to two N/Rt and one N/Mo?

Which is honestly more effective? N/Rtx3 or N/Rtx2+N/Mo?

Sab · Oct 09, 2007, 03:03 PM // 15:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilebill

Sab, my enthusiasm for these builds is boundless! I do have one question.

The Achilles Heel of the builds seems to be the Achilles Heal (<-- pun), Spirit Light. Needs a spirit around to prevent health loss. If the Life Spirit goes down, the healer can sacrifice health. So, it would seem the more Spirits the better all around, since Mend Body and Soul removes one condition per Spirit.

Now the question is, do Ranger Spirits from Nature Rituals count as Spirits as far as Spirit Light is concerned?

They do accidentally sac sometimes, but I never found that to be much of a problem. I thought about bringing another Resto spirit, but none of them really do anything other than prevent Spirit Light from saccing. And yes, Ranger spirits count.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

When was the build on the first page updated to two N/Rt and one N/Mo?

Which is honestly more effective? N/Rtx3 or N/Rtx2+N/Mo?

I updated it today because the new version is better.

Jared The Faithfull · Oct 09, 2007, 07:10 PM // 19:10

The update looks logical, prot spirit is a necessity I obviously lacked when I tanked HM today with the builds. However, I think its more prudent to have a hex remover on the MM, because that is really nagging me. The build has no way to remove hexes, which is often vital.

This build fails in HM Tears of the Fallen, pretty much.

rick1027 · Oct 09, 2007, 07:56 PM // 19:56

on the nmo build shouldnt the rez be rez chant inside of the one time res sig. it would be more effective i think seeing that the heros secondary is monk.

cyber88 · Oct 10, 2007, 12:49 AM // 00:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sab

Try not to overload on defense - for most 4-man areas, one human healer is enough. You might want to keep a few secondary heals on the Necros, but two dedicated healers is definitely too many. I'd suggest switching the Resto N/Rt to a physical (e.g. W/X Dragon Slash) or another hexer (Spoil or Corrupt)..

I see. Thanks for telling me. I feel the same way too about the changes you made to the MM nec. Now 1 nec deals the indirect damage, 1 heals & 1 dealing direct damage while providing meat walls with protection.

I will update the builds & give my feedback.

p.s. Yupz, noticed the damage output but it complements me because I like to play as a direct damage smiter.

kekekeke

Darkside · Oct 10, 2007, 01:36 AM // 01:36

Tried this 3 necro team for the past couple days...team is solid and I haven't had a wipe yet. I've purposely over aggroed and still didn't have a problem. Even against some very nasty monsters.

tekDragon · Oct 10, 2007, 08:21 AM // 08:21

That three necro team was great for normal mode but I've been having problems with it in hard more. Seems like my SS necro always gets in too close (even if he's on guard or avoid), then gets killed in one or two hits. The spikes are pretty crazy sometimes in hard mode and the AI seems to have knack for spiking on the hero that already has DP which leaves you with a perpetually ineffective hero in short order.

There lies the problems in builds that rely too much on synergy: once one of the key members becomes ineffectual you're dead in the water.

I've started working on a hard mode team that's a little more basic and has a little more redundancy which has helped me recover from deaths with fewer problems and less tedium. Will post it soon when it's a little more together.

Snow Bunny · Oct 10, 2007, 07:54 PM // 19:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by tekDragon

That three necro team was great for normal mode but I've been having problems with it in hard more. Seems like my SS necro always gets in too close (even if he's on guard or avoid), then gets killed in one or two hits. The spikes are pretty crazy sometimes in hard mode and the AI seems to have knack for spiking on the hero that already has DP which leaves you with a perpetually ineffective hero in short order.

There lies the problems in builds that rely too much on synergy: once one of the key members becomes ineffectual you're dead in the water.

I've started working on a hard mode team that's a little more basic and has a little more redundancy which has helped me recover from deaths with fewer problems and less tedium. Will post it soon when it's a little more together.

Yeah, I can see where you are with this.
My SS as well is a bit aggro happy. This build works well, but, I've found more and more that in certain areas (places with Jade brotherhood come to mind) this build works best with a dedicated terratank that can take a lot of hits.

The minion bombing really provides some good damage and tankage, except that an Ancestor's Rage+Triple Chop from some HM JB = close to 300-400 damage, which will wipe out the MM's effectiveness in a heartbeat.

I've also been putting Blurred Vision as a splash on my SH nuker. Add that to RH and SS and you have some nasty SS AoE going around.

Gigashadow · Oct 10, 2007, 08:46 PM // 20:46

What do you think about putting Smite Hex and Smite Condition on either the curse or the minion necro?

Snow Bunny · Oct 11, 2007, 12:42 AM // 00:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gigashadow

What do you think about putting Smite Hex and Smite Condition on either the curse or the minion necro?

I've tried monk secondaries on the necros. Unless you're splashing in a 8-9 second Aegis, and maybe a RoF (the AI actually understand something of pre-prot, amazing, I know) Resto from the rit side is the way to go.

gwen armor · Oct 11, 2007, 01:49 PM // 13:49

Hi everyone,
(I beg your pardon for my poor English, Its hard for me to write in foreigner's language (^_^) I'm French...)

Many thanks to You, Sab, to share those builds. There are so awesome ^^

In facts, I teach all the day in Human Factors for French ATCO and Pilots, that it's better to synergies... and I was searching for a while how to do that (with Ele team... actualy, it's not perfect because they don't use skills like human player)
So, I've been playing with your trio for a while, testing thing's too hard for me before, like doing the edge of a map... It's so easy now ^^

http://img405.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gw239jl7.jpg

I see that you have made some change, & I have a question :
Why aegis ? Ai don't cast it like human at the beginning of a fight, what's the function in your build ?

So, "merci beaucoup" Sab, and good game to everyone.

Star Gazer · Oct 11, 2007, 02:56 PM // 14:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

<snip>

The minion bombing really provides some good damage and tankage, except that an Ancestor's Rage+Triple Chop from some HM JB = close to 300-400 damage, which will wipe out the MM's effectiveness in a heartbeat.

one skill, two words: Pain Inverter >:]

Sab · Oct 11, 2007, 08:47 PM // 20:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gigashadow

What do you think about putting Smite Hex and Smite Condition on either the curse or the minion necro?

I guess you can if you want to? I'd rather have some Prot or Death Pact.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gwen armor

I see that you have made some change, & I have a question :
Why aegis ? Ai don't cast it like human at the beginning of a fight, what's the function in your build ?

You can force your hero to use Aegis if he doesn't do it automatically. Grats on Tyrian Cartographer by the way =)

Crypt Tick · Oct 11, 2007, 10:36 PM // 22:36

Amazing build. I was using a surprisingly similar one but I was using 2 rit/nec's in place of 2 of the nec/rits. I liked the rit primary's: 'boon of creation', 'explosive growth', and 'spirits gift'. And on the other rit I had 'signet of ghostly might' and 'anguish' among other skills. I liked my build...thought it was very powerful...and it was...but yours truly does synergize beautifully. Mine couldn't survive long in most 4 man vanquishing areas...yours definitely does.

*bows in respect*

Two thoughts about the build:
1. Seems many here are wishing for some better hex removal (I was one of em). So one thought I had in looking at and trying out your build: how bout making the curses necro a paragon secondary? That way you could pick up 'hexbreaker's aria' which removes a hex every time any party member casts a spell (lots of spell casting goin on) I dropped 'insidious parasite' for it. You could then substitute 'signet of return' for the 'death pact signet'.

***edit*** Sorry, I didn't properly test this paragon idea before I posted it. It appears that gaining adrenaline is far harder for a curses necro than I thought...even when set on 'fight' mode. Oh well. As an alternative to my alternative may I suggest a monk secondary with a rez skill, dropping 'insidious' and picking up 'cure hex'...a nice healing hex removal with a resonable recharge time. Or, perhaps making your primary character a paragon secondary (or primary) if you are tanking. Again....sorry.

2. I have used the jagged bones mm poison bomber basic build for a while now, so I have a question about "blood of the master". Why use it? Ideally the 2 bone minions get 'barbs', 'death nova', and 'jagged bones' put on them, they are at most a level 13...so they will die quickly...and that is what you want in this build, right? Constant minion creation and destruction....maximizing corpse production and energy creation. Now the jagged horror that gets created will die sooner too, but that is the beauty of 'jagged bones' it can be cast and recast on whatever minion (including a jagged horror) so that when it dies another jagged horror pops up. I would suggest getting rid of 'blood of the master' and putting in almost anything else...another hex removal (cure hex), reversal of fortune, gift of health, or whatever. Just another thought.

Thanks for the great team build!

gwen armor · Oct 11, 2007, 10:47 PM // 22:47

Hello everyone,
Sab, I have try your new build in hard place without pulling before to test it, it's amazing how it works fine, it's safer. I had to micromanage aegis before, and waohhhh

"L'essayer, c'est l'adopter !"

/clap

Merci beaucoup (^_^)

Whirlwind · Oct 11, 2007, 11:03 PM // 23:03

blood is to heal between fights =p

Whirlwind · Oct 11, 2007, 11:18 PM // 23:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ravari Craven

hmmm runes and insignia don't matter, now weapons don't? Thats good cause I have no rit weaps.

Well.... except for some communing stuff. I really need to try this out!

Well it depends how rough you want to fight... runes and insig DO matter, so do weapon stats. Just not nearly as much as it does on less powerful characters. For example, who (hero or real) doesn't operate better with more health, energy, armor and higher attributes?

They do run out of energy and health just like any other build, it just doesn't happen as often =P The team setup is very nice I'm not knocking it at all i use it myself, but if you want to run at peak performance like a finely tuned sports car... you buy the right parts.

The hourglass staff from gwen pre-order works great for them or if you have a little more cash laying around or willing to do the quest, Kerrsh's staff is a great staff for them.

Crypt Tick · Oct 11, 2007, 11:21 PM // 23:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whirlwind

blood is to heal between fights =p

True, and I understand the reasoning for 'blood of the master' as a skill for mm's in general. But with this build you are going from aggro to aggro till everyone is dead (at least the way I use it). I just found that trying to keep the minions alive longer with 'blood of the master' was sort of pointless (seeing as how the backbone of this synergistic team build is corpse creation), and besides you have 'jagged bones' which will convert most of the dead minions into jagged horrors. The time it takes to find another group of red dots to attack was for me far shorter than the need for blood. Just offering up an opinion though...not saying its better...just different.

cyber88 · Oct 12, 2007, 01:21 AM // 01:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sab

I guess you can if you want to? I'd rather have some Prot or Death Pact.

You can force your hero to use Aegis if he doesn't do it automatically. Grats on Tyrian Cartographer by the way =)

I agree with Sab. I personally tested the 2 builds (mm prot & mm rit) & as Sab mention, it really depends on what you need/want. For me, I play a direct damage smiter (I don't use smite hex btw). I encounter little diffiult in hex heavy area (currently vanquishing desert area). Using the mm prot build, I can survive physical damage while under hexes (major degen ,x2 casting time & guilt). If using the mm rit build, I can outheal the damage. I prefer the mm rit build because I am lazy to even micro manage a bit.

Lastly, thanks Sab for sharing this team build. It made vanquishing a little easier for me.

Sab · Oct 12, 2007, 08:59 AM // 08:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crypt Tick

Two thoughts about the build:
1. Seems many here are wishing for some better hex removal (I was one of em). So one thought I had in looking at and trying out your build: how bout making the curses necro a paragon secondary? That way you could pick up 'hexbreaker's aria' which removes a hex every time any party member casts a spell (lots of spell casting goin on) I dropped 'insidious parasite' for it. You could then substitute 'signet of return' for the 'death pact signet'.

2. I have used the jagged bones mm poison bomber basic build for a while now, so I have a question about "blood of the master". Why use it? Ideally the 2 bone minions get 'barbs', 'death nova', and 'jagged bones' put on them, they are at most a level 13...so they will die quickly...and that is what you want in this build, right? Constant minion creation and destruction....maximizing corpse production and energy creation. Now the jagged horror that gets created will die sooner too, but that is the beauty of 'jagged bones' it can be cast and recast on whatever minion (including a jagged horror) so that when it dies another jagged horror pops up. I would suggest getting rid of 'blood of the master' and putting in almost anything else...another hex removal (cure hex), reversal of fortune, gift of health, or whatever. Just another thought.

Thanks for the great team build!

I never found hex removal to be that essential in PvE. Either the hexes are trash hexes you can just heal through, or there are so many nasty hexes that a single removal isn't going to cut it, not to mention it's down to luck for the heroes to remove the right one.

As for Blood of the Master, it's nice to head into a battle with your minions at full health so they can tank damage for a bit longer. Your heroes won't be needing energy until 10-20 seconds in the battle anyway, which is about the time the minions start dying.