Curse

Faye Aeris · May 22, 2008, 05:14 AM // 05:14

Hey guys, I just want to get some feedback for these builds:

Touchy Hero Battles

NOTE: This team can also be used for nearly everything in normal mode, and can be used to complete some missions hard mode.

[build name="Toucher (Human)" prof=R/N Expertise=12+1+3 blood=12 wilderness=3][vampiric touch][vampiric bite][offering of blood][throw dirt][whirling defense][lightning reflexes][you move like a dwarf][awaken the blood][/build]

A standard toucher build, but with Awaken the Blood for extra damage and YMLaD to counter kiting monsters. Replace [you move like a dwarf] with [dodge] if using this build in Hero Battles.

[build name="N/Rt Healer" prof=N/Rt restoration=12 channeling=3 soul=12+1+1][Weapon of remedy][vengeful weapon][protective was kaolai][spirit light][mend body and soul][life][signet of lost souls][flesh of my flesh][/build]

Standard Sab healer.

[build name="Toucher (Hero)" prof=R/N Expertise=12+1+3 blood=12 wilderness=3][vampiric touch][vampiric bite][offering of blood][throw dirt][whirling defense][lightning reflexes][Well of blood][awaken the blood][/build]

Standard toucher, but with Well of Blood for even more self-healing.

[build name="Toucher (Hero)" prof=R/N Expertise=12+1+3 blood=12 wilderness=3][vampiric touch][vampiric bite][offering of blood][throw dirt][whirling defense][lightning reflexes][Blood ritual][awaken the blood][/build]

Standard Toucher, but with Blood Ritual to support the healer/player's energy.

Human Weapon: 20 Energy/30 HP Staff with 20 HRT (Staff of the Forgotten, Mindclouder, or similar can work here)

Human Runes/Insignia: Combination of Radiant/Survivor Insignias, Rune of Major/Superior Vigor, Rune of Superior Expertise, combination of Vitaes/Attunements

Necro Hero Weapon: 40/40 set.

Necro Hero Runes/Insignias: Undertaker's Insignias, Rune of Minor Soul Reaping, Runes of Vitae and Vigor.

Toucher Hero Weapons: 5 Energy/20% Enchant Melee Weapon + 30 HP Focus
Alternate Toucher Hero Weapons: 5 Energy/30 HP + 30 HP Focus

Toucher Hero Runes/Insignia: Same as human.

Touchers keep up constant self-healing and respectable DPS.

N/Rt heals when a toucher has been interrupted, crippled, or otherwise rendered vulnerable.

Pros:
- Extreme survivability in HB and NM

Cons:
- Unable to handle heavy pressure present in HM due to a lack of protection.

Sabway Variant

Since I hate using minions (many areas with no corpses), I came up with this:

[build name="Healer" prof=N/Rt restoration=12 channeling=3 soul=12+1+1][icy veins][wielder's boon][protective was kaolai][mend body and soul][spirit light][recuperation][signet of lost souls][flesh of my flesh][/build]

Synergizes well with the Death Magic Necro because of icy veins. Also utilizes wielder's boon, taking advantage of the large number of weapon spells on this team.

[build name="SS" prof=N/rt Curses=12+1+2 rest=8 soul=10+1][Spiteful Spirit][enfeebling blood][suffering][weaken armor][defile enchantments][rip enchantment][signet of lost souls][weapon of warding][/build]

Applies conditions and hexes, helping to satisfy discord's requirements. Also does respectable AoE damage.

[build name="Death Bomber/Prot (No Minions)" prof=N/rt death=12+1+2 rest=8 soul=10+1][discord][putrid bile][rising bile][putrid explosion][vengeful weapon][weapon of warding][signet of lost souls][signet of sorrow][/build]

Turns monsters into timebombs, often making fights much shorter and/or easier. Also deals massive damage with discord.

Weapons: 40/40 Restoration Magic, Curses, and Death Magic respectively.

Armor: Undertaker's or Tormentor's Insignias, Vitae/Vigor Runes, Minor Runes of Soul Reaping, Curses, and Death Magic.

Pros:
- Almost no reliance on corpses
- Can handle relatively heavy pressure on backlines
- Good AoE damage
- Handles most vanquishes and missions nicely
- Great vs. all types of monsters
- Lots of energy
- Able to handle 4-man areas

Cons:
- AoE damage
- Monsters hexed by Putrid Bile, Rising Bile, etc aren't always killed first, leading to wasted hexes (Fix: Call targets)
- No meatshields (minions)
- Caster counters (dazed, energy denial, interrupts)
- No condition/hex removal

NOTE: Soul Reaping triggers on enemy deaths too, of which there will be many. I've never encountered energy problems using this team.

Just as a matter of preference, I find that Master of Whispers works well as the N/Rt Healer, Olias works as the Death Bomber, and Livia does well with the SS build.

sagilltwins · May 22, 2008, 05:43 AM // 05:43

looks interesting i'll give it a try

DarkSpirit · May 22, 2008, 07:26 AM // 07:26

It is very difficult to match sabway's performance in HM without a good MM because minions are take useful. For both taking damage and giving out damage from curse synergy.

Besides sabway, the only other famous H/H build for HM is Rac's Paragon build. You dont need a MM for that, but you have a SY spammer to balance that out.

Super Igor · May 22, 2008, 11:07 AM // 11:07

Touchway is actually quite epic.

Got a ATFH Hard Mode run from Faye's touchway yesturday, though it needs two extra healers to succeed the run on HM the thing worked quite well I would say, though I strongly suggest giving [well of power] either to one of the touchies or to the nec, assuming you are aways in touch range were thing would die [well of power] will be a good help both for your surviveability and energy gain. I would also advice you to take [you move like a dwarf] as a snare for human player, some mobs would run from you as soon as you engage in melee/touch range.

As for HB you touchway will suck...suck bad...because with no protection at all and no capping ability you will get steamrolled by any half decent Assassin or Monk. If you are going to use this for hero battles you main helaer should be far more resilient then it is now and provide much better pressure relieve.

As for sabway variant...hmm...dont think that it is any better tbh. You see, one of the key to Sabway success is the minion bomber who not only adds huge ammouns of damage via minions who often have [splinter weapon] cast on them atacking foes hexed with [barbs] and [mark of pain] and at some foes exploding to cause massive damages from [death nova] wilst giving all the necs good ammounts of energy to use. By getting rid of those you lose consistant ammounts of amage you could have dealt. Also these is no synergy between [insidious parasite] and [reckless haste].

Turbobusa · May 22, 2008, 11:25 AM // 11:25

Sabway takes advantage of soul reaping via minions. Without a MM, the N/Rt better of being something else imo.
Also, Icy Veins in HM is trash. Way too much affected by armor.

Pyro maniac · May 22, 2008, 11:45 AM // 11:45

no need of dual well of blood, it has got a 2 sec recharge
put in d-shot on the human player, it really does add alot imo. Or YMLAAD as suggested above

2nd build: lack of MM is pretty noticable. Also Rising Bile isn't that strong and has got little synergy with Putrid Bile. First hex needs to stay as long as possible, with the second hex it's needs to stay as short as possible (target needs to die for boom). taste of pain is rather weak, prefer some other utility here. Enchant removal may be good as well.
Also desecrate enchantments + copy aren't that good. Imo slot protective spirit there.

And please .. bring some resses ..

Super Igor · May 22, 2008, 11:52 AM // 11:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbobusa

Icy Veins in HM is trash. Way too much affected by armor.

LOL?!

/12

Pyro maniac · May 22, 2008, 02:54 PM // 14:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

LOL?!

/12

he is right, 68 cold damage will turn in to 30 damage. Armor ignoring damage is key in HM

Arkantos · May 22, 2008, 02:58 PM // 14:58

Not having a MM (more specifically, minion bomber) makes the build a lot less effective. Replace the icy veins necro with a MM for areas which have corpses (which is the majority of explorables).

Turbobusa · May 22, 2008, 08:01 PM // 20:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

LOL?!

/12

Yes lol. Even in higher level such as RoT you'll see a real difference. Icy veins is gold for low/mid level PvE, afterwards it worthless.

Faye Aeris · May 22, 2008, 10:24 PM // 22:24

Taking your suggestions into consideration, I've modified my builds (see first post). Decided to keep Rising Bile because a) The hero AI always uses it first, giving it some time to take effect and b) it deals respectable AoE damage even when only on for say, half its duration. Discuss.

Super Igor · May 22, 2008, 10:32 PM // 22:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyro maniac

he is right, 68 cold damage will turn in to 30 damage. Armor ignoring damage is key in HM

Eh, who the hell runs IV at 9 or 11 SL?

Usually ran on N/Rt who has [foul feast] and 14 SL...

Tbh, at 14 it deals ~105 damage when your target dies, dont rememmber the exact damage on-death it deals for sure but it doesnt matter, that damage would be reduced to about 80 and thats pretty good I would say, especially coupled with PB and RB it will be an aweasome way to make a bomb out of your opponent. Great skill it is.

On other hand [toxic chill] is crap on heroes and in PvE in general, 10 energy...heroes are bad at it...whats the point? GG on misleading the guy.

Faye Aeris · May 22, 2008, 10:45 PM // 22:45

Alright, if I put IV on the N/Rt, what should the N/Mo Death Magic Necro's elite be?

EDIT: Did some rune switching, and kept IV on the N/Mo Death Necro

Super Igor · May 23, 2008, 11:31 AM // 11:31

Why N/Mo in the first place? Heroes cant chain [Aegis]...just give him a hard rez or soemthing...

Also, heroes are bad at [weapon of remedy], IMO! IV on your N/Rt would be much better choice and you could swap out the death bpomber's elite to pretty much anything, [empathic removal] for example...

Faye Aeris · May 24, 2008, 05:52 PM // 17:52

Updated with changed attributes and skills.

Trying to get [Empathic Removal], and I'll try it out tomorrow. I'm replacing [Aegis] with [Protective Spirit] for some defense against caster classes, but keeping [Weapon of remedy] since it's saved my team many times. In my opinion, it's one of the best Ritualist restoration skills: It removes a condition, heals for a decent amount, and does a decent amount of armor-ignoring damage. In addition to all of that, it is unconditional, which is always nice.

Update #2:

Changed organization and added some more details.

Update #3:

Since heroes aren't too good with [Protective spirit] (They use it as healing), I've switched it out for [elemental resistance], which provides superb protection caster classes.

Update #4:

Slight changes to Runes/Insignias.

Faye Aeris · May 26, 2008, 05:29 PM // 17:29

Bump.

Update #5:

Improved healer efficiency (replaced weapon of remedy with spirit light weapon, life with recuperation), improved survivability of SS and Death Magic Necroes (added physical resistance). Updates to the pro/con sections. Slight change of equipments.

Super Igor · May 26, 2008, 10:09 PM // 22:09

Omg, wussup with [elemental resistance] and [physical resistance]? Imo totally useless, wastes a slot, makes your necs die quicker, get some prot back there, yeah they spam itbut who cares? Their energy is limitless, [aegis] is good too.

A Leprechaun · May 27, 2008, 03:27 PM // 15:27

Am I missing something (mega-hax?) but I thought you could not run PvE skills (YMLAD!) in Hero battles?

~A Leprechaun~

Faye Aeris · May 27, 2008, 11:42 PM // 23:42

Fix'd...

Igor: Heroes seem to use [physical resistance] and [elemental resistance] well, so I'm keeping it on there.

Update:
- Healer given faster casting/more efficient heals
- Replaced [signet of sorrow] with [taste of pain], since heroes don't use [signet of sorrow] well.

Super Igor · May 28, 2008, 01:30 PM // 13:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faye Aeris

Igor: Heroes seem to use [physical resistance] and [elemental resistance] well, so I'm keeping it on there.

Lol no, those skills suck, long rechrge, energy cost...they give you a bit of defense from one thing and make you have 40 armor again the other QQ, so if you have physical prtection one elemental spell kill u one hit, and otherwise. Please mind that most mobs use best of both wrolds, elemental stuff, and physical stuff, so those stances kill you, replace them with more utility, prot spirit, etc etc. Also IV on N/Rt plx,a dn [Weapon of warding] too. They may be goo for farming exact mobs, but not worthy to be in a main bar of a general PvE team, they will kill you most of the time. :3

Also, being a HBer I tell you, 3 toucher team sux @ HB, you get steam rolled by normal offensive, and steamrolled x2 by a monk capway. I just cap a pair of shrines, wait for you to come with N/Rt to my R/Ps, voila, ur dead meat. ;3