Curse

Marverick · Jun 05, 2008, 09:41 PM // 21:41

Holding aggro is just holding aggro, usually done by a melee char with high armor.

Tanking is when you devote your entire bar to staying alive under aggro, which is stupid because your Monks can easily do that if you can successfully keep aggro.

Kiluna · Jun 05, 2008, 09:43 PM // 21:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by chesterocks7

i dont play melee classes, so i dont really understand the difference between tanking and holding aggro. isnt it pretty much the same thing?

I would say yes, they are the same thing.

On-topic:
My vote goes for Melonni for everything that doesn't have Required: Koss.
If you don't want to know why my vote did go for Melonni, stop reading after next dot

.

Simply because i don't find hero Warriors with adre attacks to be that effective, they have same wait time that sin h/h used to have between attacks. Or at least that's what i've heard, so i don't have really used him (or other war heros) anywhere where they aren't required. The only little i've observed the skill usage with sword build: Crippling Slash -> ~4 sec and then Gash.

And wounding strike is just way better than any warrior deep wound you can get (spammable with cover condition).

e:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marverick

Holding aggro is just holding aggro, usually done by a melee char with high armor.

Tanking is when you devote your entire bar to staying alive under aggro, which is stupid because your Monks can easily do that if you can successfully keep aggro.

Hmm well depends how you think it really...
Tanking = skillbar devoted for survival and in most of MMO's to keep aggro.
Holding aggro = tanks job, as if you are not holding the aggro, your whole skill bar is useless because noone attacks you.
So holding aggro = tanking? :P

And how wikipedia says it; In gaming jargon, a tank is a player or unit designated to protect weaker players or units in combat by drawing enemy attacks and absorbing damage.
drawing enemy attacks = holding aggro = tanking :P

Darkside · Jun 05, 2008, 09:45 PM // 21:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by chesterocks7

actually yes, because i asked which situations each one is better for, not which one he thinks is better. his answer had nothing to do with what i asked.

Do you have reading comprehension issues? He said Koss is crap (So don't ever use him) and Mel is good using an Orders build. I don't see how that doesn't answer your question. More likely you don't like that answer because you wasted a bunch of money loading both of them up with "good gear".

Btw I think it's cute that you use Koss as your "tank". That's simply awesome.

chesterocks7 · Jun 05, 2008, 09:56 PM // 21:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkside

Do you have reading comprehension issues? He said Koss is crap (So don't ever use him) and Mel is good using an Orders build. I don't see how that doesn't answer your question. More likely you don't like that answer because you wasted a bunch of money loading both of them up with "good gear".

because its his opinion. i dont give shit if he thinks one is good and the other is useless. i did not ask for the opinion he gave me, so what he said is useless. get that through your f***ing thick skull. if he said that koss isnt useful in many situations that would be one thing, but all he said was that melonni is slightly less shit than koss because of a certain build she can run. thats great, i dont give a shit. has nothing to do with what i asked, so i think you are the one with comprehension issues, because i cant make it any clearer than that.

Tyla · Jun 05, 2008, 09:59 PM // 21:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by chesterocks7

i dont play melee classes, so i dont really understand the difference between tanking and holding aggro. isnt it pretty much the same thing?

Tanking is devoing your bar to selfish defense with low fire power, and holding aggro is holding aggro.

Either can be done with any profession, and SoA + PS makes it possible easy.

Bowstring Badass · Jun 05, 2008, 10:01 PM // 22:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by chesterocks7

if youre not going to answer the question, dont waste your time posting.

He did answer the question. With an answer not what the OP wants.

chesterocks7 · Jun 05, 2008, 10:02 PM // 22:02

thank you guys for clearing that up.

Tyla · Jun 05, 2008, 10:03 PM // 22:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowstring Badass

He did answer the question. With an answer not what the OP wants.

Yes, but if the OP knows what answer s/he wants then there is no point asking the question!

chesterocks7 · Jun 05, 2008, 10:05 PM // 22:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowstring Badass

He did answer the question. With an answer not what the OP wants.

i asked which situation each one is better for. he said don't use them because they suck. that's giving me a useless opinion, not answering the question. read some of the other replies if you want to find out what answering a question means.

god these boards are full of idiots.

Stormlord Alex · Jun 05, 2008, 10:07 PM // 22:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by chesterocks7

waffling

I'm sorry if it's not the answer you want, but it's right. Your builds (and heroes) are bad because melee AI is near enough useless.

This is not opinion, it is fact.

There are no situations where I'd ever bring Koss over Melonni because both fail hard at melee, whereas Melonni at least has a workable build that works with AI - the Arcane Zeal order derv.

If you want a physical hero, take a para.

chesterocks7 · Jun 05, 2008, 10:11 PM // 22:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

I'm sorry if it's not the answer you want, but it's right. Your builds (and heroes) are bad because melee AI is near enough useless.

This is not opinion, it is fact.

There are no situations where I'd ever bring Koss over Melonni because both fail hard at melee, whereas Melonni at least has a workable build that works with AI - the Arcane Zeal order derv.

If you want a physical hero, take a para.

yet there are plenty of other people who disagree with you, so you fail to show me how your opinion is actually fact. pvxwiki has a good amount of tested hero builds that received "great" and "good" ratings. they dedicate time solely to testing out those builds so i am going to take their word for it over yours unless you can somehow prove to me that your opinioin is more factual then their tested builds.

Kiluna · Jun 05, 2008, 10:19 PM // 22:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Tanking is devoing your bar to selfish defense with low fire power, and holding aggro is holding aggro.

Either can be done with any profession, and SoA + PS makes it possible easy.

Sorry for the offtopic...

But i don't really see why "holding aggro is only holding aggro"...
As in the past 5-6 years i've played and tryed many different 100% free, with monthly free, beta, alpha etc. MMO's and tanking have always been same as holding aggro for me. Some games might require addition things for the tank to be effective, like gear with defensive stats or skills to mitigate damage taken or to help the monster keep the focus on you. But holding aggro is the main thing for the tank, as how you "tank" if nothing attacks you?

Tanking = Holding aggro = Tanking.

Stormlord Alex · Jun 05, 2008, 10:21 PM // 22:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by chesterocks7

pvxwiki has a good amount of tested hero builds that received "great" and "good" ratings.

Just a quick check, but neither of the 'great' PvE Hero builds you use (the Cleaver and WS Derv) actually have any discussion on their effectiveness as hero bars.
It's more of a trend of good builds having the hero tag stuck on them as opposed to them being good hero-specific builds.

And I'd not bother with PvX either - people who think it's a good idea to waste a skill slot on [[conviction] are bad.

chesterocks7 · Jun 05, 2008, 10:25 PM // 22:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

Just a quick check, but neither of the 'great' PvE Hero builds you use (the Cleaver and WS Derv) actually have any discussion on their effectiveness as hero bars.
It's more of a trend of good builds having the hero tag stuck on them as opposed to them being good hero-specific builds.

And I'd not bother with PvX either - people who think it's a good idea to waste a skill slot on [[conviction] are bad.

well, ive used pvxwiki builds for most of my heros, and they all work very well, so unless i have a good reason not to, im going to keep using their builds. especially for classes that i dont play.

Darkside · Jun 05, 2008, 10:27 PM // 22:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by chesterocks7

well, ive used pvxwiki builds for most of my heros, and they all work very well, so unless i have a good reason not to, im going to keep using their builds. especially for classes that i dont play.

Sounds good keep failing.

chesterocks7 · Jun 05, 2008, 10:31 PM // 22:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkside

Sounds good keep failing.

lol ok kid, you've tried to cause enough trouble for one day. why don't you get back to your anime or something. or better yet, go outside and exercise.

madmax0877 · Jun 05, 2008, 11:56 PM // 23:56

The builds you have chosen for those two heroes are perfect. So perfect in fact you should use both of them at the same time.

Washi · Jun 06, 2008, 12:06 AM // 00:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by chesterocks7

well, ive used pvxwiki builds for most of my heros, and they all work very well, so unless i have a good reason not to, im going to keep using their builds. especially for classes that i dont play.

You use pvx wiki builds which are mostly bad or average at best, and you don't want experienced player like Alex to tell you what's good and what's bad. I wonder.. Why the fk do you ask questions then? You wait for someone on your level to tell you what you wanna hear? Or you want someone good to tell you the truth?

You want to compare 2 melee heroes... Guess what they do the same thing, but one of them does it better. They have the same weaknesses it's fkin obvious they will both be average when there is no melee hate and they will both suck when there is melee hate present.... wtf do you wanna hear? Koss is better when he's hungry, and melloni kicks butt when she's drunk....

And you acuse everyone of being a kid when it's actually you who act childish.

-Lotus- · Jun 06, 2008, 12:24 AM // 00:24

Im pretty sure that koss is the best choice, just make sure that you make frenzy the only skill on his bar. that way he will use it and it will make all the enemys attack him and he uses his magic to cancel it so you dont have to worry about him dieing, because 80al pretty much makes him invincable.

good luck!!

PS, try bring the other heroes with meteor shower and flare so they can kill all the mobs standing around koss.

Trvth Jvstice · Jun 06, 2008, 12:32 AM // 00:32

I never use mele heroes, but if I had to choose one over the other, I'd choose Koss with [[Eviscerate], [[Executioner's Strike], [[For great Justice], [[Flail], [[Enraging Charge], [[Lion's Comfort], [[Distracting Blow], and [[Resurrection Chant].

Also, I'm getting sick and tired of seeing the word Shit on this forum. I think it should be GoRed Engine-ed. If you have to rely on an expletive to get your point across - then you should work on your creative writing skills a bit.