Curse

guruspack · Jun 21, 2008, 06:17 PM // 18:17

Hi Mesmer fellows

At first I wanna say, that Sabway is in 90% of time superior over all other hero-team setups for a mesmer. But their are some reasons, why I personally don't like to run Sabway. At first in areas without enough corpse Sabway sucks, no wonder. But even in other areas you can get into situations, where all the minions are spiked away in the beginning of a fight and then Sabway sucks again. But ok, there are counters for every build. The main reason for me is, that I have always wait for the mm on my way. And that is realy annoying

So, the last days I have tested a lot of different hero setups in many different areas. And this is what in my opinion working realy great:

[build PvE name="Me" prof=Me/E fastcasting=9 illusion=11 domination=14][Cry of Frustration][Fevered Dreams][Cry of Pain][Empathy][Wandering Eye][Mistrust][Pain Inverter][Glyph of lesser Energy][/build]

[build PvE name="Sosuke" prof=E/Mo energystorage=15 air=11 protection=9][Ether Renewal][Aura of Restoration][Air Attunement][Blinding Flash][Lightning Orb][Protective Spirit][Aegis][Extinguish][/build]

[build PvE name="Olias" prof=N/Rt restoration=12 channeling=10 soulreaping=10][Offering of Spirit][Splinter Weapon][Mend Body and Soul][Spirit Light][Protective was Kaolai][Life][Signet of lost Souls][Death Pact Signet][/build]

[build PvE name="Livia" prof=N/E soulreaping=12 fire=12 curses=6][Searing Flames][Liquid Flame][Fire Attunement][Glyph of elemental Power][Glyph of lesser Energy][Enfeebling Blood][Rip Enchantment][Signet of lost Souls][/build]

There is nothing realy new in it, no single build-idea is invented by me. I have just tested the single builds and their synergie, changed a skill and so on. Fill up the rest of your team with Lina, Mehnlo, Herta and Talon.
So, if you're unhappy with your hero-setup, just give it a try

And if you're playing with a team-mate bring a broadhead-ranger and you will find even harmode realy easy.

upier · Jun 21, 2008, 08:49 PM // 20:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by guruspack

[build PvE name="Olias" prof=N/Rt restoration=12 channeling=10 soulreaping=10][Offering of Spirit][Splinter Weapon][Mend Body and Soul][Spirit Light][Protective was Kaolai][Life][Signet of lost Souls][Death Pact Signet][/build]

This is what scares me.
If the necro needs e-management - that means that things aren't dying.
Which means that the team build is bad.

But then again - since your advice is is to run a resto necro with 2 additional monkies - I can see why the resto necro needs Offering.

Ohh sweet baby Jesus. I just saw you are also running Livi-babez as a SF ele.
Considering that insane amount of damage a curser can do - why not abuse that?

guruspack · Jun 21, 2008, 10:06 PM // 22:06

The e-management on the resto-healer, is only there for situaion in which things going bad, 90% it isn't realy needed.

And you are right, in most areas you can repleace one monk wiht a damage dealer. but in areas like the realm of torment, with all that lvl 30 demons in hm, i find two monks are needed.

I have tested the typical sabway-curse-nec and different mods of it, but in my opinion the nec-sf-ele works better, if you have no minions+barbs synergie, especaily with fevered dreams.

upier · Jun 21, 2008, 11:56 PM // 23:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by guruspack

The e-management on the resto-healer, is only there for situaion in which things going bad, 90% it isn't realy needed.

That just screams even more not to waste the elite slot on something that trivial.
For those 10% - you can always just die.

Quote:

Originally Posted by guruspack

And you are right, in most areas you can repleace one monk wiht a damage dealer. but in areas like the realm of torment, with all that lvl 30 demons in hm, i find two monks are needed.

Well I've just did GoM (or whatever the C3-Shiro-mission is callled) in HM - and we (2 players + 6 heroes) did it with Sabway (which means one resto necro) and a monky hero (+2 mesmer heros).
And that's in the area where healing is reduced.

So you end up running 2 monkies, the resto necro which is mostly defense, the ele which is ALSO mostly defense and Livia as your single SF ele (despite SF getting INSANELY better when running more then one in a team - and combined with the fact that ele damage will get cut in half in later parts of the game because of the insane armour of foes) - which makes it even clearer why you'd need Offering.
You don't seem to be killing fast enough.
Offense still is the best defense.

Quote:

Originally Posted by guruspack

I have tested the typical sabway-curse-nec and different mods of it, but in my opinion the nec-sf-ele works better, if you have no minions+barbs synergie, especaily with fevered dreams.

Cracked armour (would be a must even in your build - I'd dump GoEP for it), weakness, SS, reckless haste, ench removal (plus 10 in channeling for Ancestors) - and you'd out-damage the SF necro. You can always add MoP (cast it manually and trigger with your spear) for some additional massive damage. Or something like Defile Defenses.

The reason why I am not a fan of SF + Fevered to spread the burning is because SF already is AoE. Sure the range is smaller - but it's not like that matters much.

guruspack · Jun 23, 2008, 08:48 AM // 08:48

hi upier

after your replys i have decided to give the curse-nec another try. i ended up with this:

[build PvE name="Me" prof=Me/E fastcasting=9 illusion=11 domination=14][Cry of Frustration][Fevered Dreams][Cry of Pain][Empathy][Wandering Eye][Mistrust][Pain Inverter][Glyph of lesser Energy][/build]

[build PvE name="Sosuke" prof=E/Mo energystorage=15 air=11 protection=9][Ether Renewal][Aura of Restoration][Air Attunement][Blinding Flash][Lightning Orb][Protective Spirit][Aegis][Extinguish][/build]

[build PvE name="Olias" prof=N/Rt restoration=12 channeling=10 soulreaping=10][Weapon of Remedy][Splinter Weapon][Mend Body and Soul][Spirit Light][Protective was Kaolai][Life][Signet of lost Souls][Death Pact Signet][/build]

[build PvE name="Livia" prof=N/Rt soulreaping=9 channeling=12 curses=13][Spiteful Spirit][Mark of Pain][Ancestors Rage][Splinter Weapon][Spirit Burn][Enfeebling Blood][Signet of lost Souls][Death Pact Signet][/build]

filled up the team with mehnlo, herta, zho and devona.

what should i say, it works realy great. but i'm not sure about spiteful spirit, cause the called target is dead after a few seconds, so ss isn't realy efective imo.
what do you think about [Destructive Was Glaive] or [Icy Veins] as an alternitiv? or making a blood-nec like this:
[build PvE name="Livia" prof=N/Rt soulreaping=9 channeling=12 blood=13][Spoil Victor][Ancestors Rage][Splinter Weapon][Spirit Burn][Enfeebling Blood][Rip Enchantment][Signet of lost Souls][Death Pact Signet][/build]

upier · Jun 23, 2008, 09:19 AM // 09:19

I have to say [Spirit Burn] is a VERY interesting choice with Fevered.
I would replace DPS with Flesh Of My Flesh - or disable it and cast it manually. (At least on the non-resto necro.)
Also yesterday I was vanquishing Ice Cliffs and I saw that Aidan carries Barrage! So I dumped Herta for him and that combined with Splinter spam made for some insane damage. (Wards ARE good - but it's not liek she knows how to use them

)
Spoil Victor won't work as good as if you had minions. Although the foes are lvl 30 or something - SV will stop working after a few hits. So you are back to the problem of SS. I'd stick with SS. It's a dumb skill - and that's exactly what's needed for heroes. (Plus you could always manually cast it on a non-priority target. BUT considering that things ARE dying - I wouldn't bother.

)
Mark Of Pain is more of a player skill. So you should really cast it manually or else - don't bother with it.
Ohh and didn't see that Orb still causes cracked armour in PvE. Very nice with Fevered.
Never used Icy tbh. What scares me is that it's ele damage - so it will get cut again. The whole lose all enches is what puts me off from Destructive (plus the fact that only AR/SB will benefit from it AND the fact that you could be using SS instead). If Livi-babez will have enches on her - it will be something like Protective Spirit or Aegis. And there is just no point in losing that!

Just keep testing things and you'll see what comes up. The main thing to remember is that you really want to be using 2 dedicated healer/prot players MAX (for most of the game of course!). Sure the other guys can bring some skills that will help with negating damage (like wards, blindness, Aegis, ...) - but they should be more damage focused. Because in PvE - things die to easily to not just kill them.

guruspack · Jun 23, 2008, 10:11 AM // 10:11

Probalby you're right with SS.
And yes, [Spirit Burn] and [Lightning Orb] are realy nice with Fevered Dreams. If you bring Zho and Talon in EotN you get with this team AoE-wide burning, blinding, deep wound, weakness, cracked armor, dazed and cripling

So, I have to figure out, what to bring instead of MoP.

zelgadissan · Jun 23, 2008, 02:47 PM // 14:47

Those builds look like an interesting run to try out later today, namely the addition of [Spirit Burn]. I'll have to come back with results later.

Just a suggestion - if you're not running with any Inspiration magic on your own bar you might want to try to find a way to fit [Blood Ritual] onto one of your necros. Even at 0 spec in blood it'd help you out a lot with seven 10+ energy skills, and even more if you decide to turn Livia into the blood version.

I also agree with trying Aidan instead of Herta, and I personally will try to run Lina instead of Mhenlo when I do this. I'm admittedly addicted to [Reversal of Fortune] though

DarkSpirit · Jun 23, 2008, 03:52 PM // 15:52

Not enough damage. Conditions alone, even with good mass burning, is not enough to kill high level foes in HM.

guruspack · Jun 23, 2008, 04:09 PM // 16:09

Just to sume it up, what i have figured out so far with upier's help:

[build PvE name="Me" prof=Me/E fastcasting=9 illusion=11 domination=14][Cry of Frustration][Fevered Dreams][Cry of Pain][Empathy][Wandering Eye][Mistrust][Pain Inverter][Glyph of lesser Energy][/build]
[build PvE name="Sosuke" prof=E/Mo energystorage=15 air=11 protection=9][Ether Renewal][Aura of Restoration][Air Attunement][Blinding Flash][Lightning Orb][Protective Spirit][Aegis][Extinguish][/build]
[build PvE name="Olias" prof=N/Rt restoration=12 channeling=10 soulreaping=10][Weapon of Remedy][Splinter Weapon][Mend Body and Soul][Spirit Light][Protective was Kaolai][Life][Signet of lost Souls][Death Pact Signet][/build]
[build PvE name="Livia" prof=N/Rt soulreaping=9 channeling=12 curses=13][Spiteful Spirit][Ancestors Rage][Splinter Weapon][Spirit Burn][Enfeebling Blood][optional][Signet of lost Souls][Death Pact Signet][/build]

So on Livia you have an optional-skillslot. Possibilities would be [Rip Enchantment], [Rend Enchantment] or [Well of Darkness], perhaps [Blood Ritual], too, as zelgadissan has mentioned. I have just seen [Signet of Sorrow], never tried this out yet, so don't know if it's worth it?

guruspack · Jun 23, 2008, 04:12 PM // 16:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Not enough damage. Conditions alone, even with good mass burning, is not enough to kill high level foes in HM.

I have to disagree. I have tested it yesterday night at the realm of torment in hm and had no trouble to kill al the lvl30 foes.

upier · Jun 23, 2008, 04:27 PM // 16:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by guruspack

So on Livia you have an optional-skillslot. Possibilities would be [Rip Enchantment], [Rend Enchantment] or [Well of Darkness], perhaps [Blood Ritual], too, as zelgadissan has mentioned. I have just seen [Signet of Sorrow], never tried this out yet, so don't know if it's worth it?

Personally it would either be Rip Ench or Reckless Haste.
Heck - try to dump SoLS on the curser and use both. The chick might have enough energy without it.

DarkSpirit · Jun 23, 2008, 04:46 PM // 16:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by guruspack

I have to disagree. I have tested it yesterday night at the realm of torment in hm and had no trouble to kill al the lvl30 foes.

Which would greatly depend on your LB rank. Try an area in EOTN. (e.g. Dalada Uplands).

guruspack · Jun 23, 2008, 05:06 PM // 17:06

I haven't display my LB-title at all. But anyways I will test the team in Dalada Uplands and will report.

Cebe · Jun 23, 2008, 08:21 PM // 20:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by guruspack

Just to sume it up, what i have figured out so far with upier's help:

[build PvE name="Me" prof=Me/E fastcasting=9 illusion=11 domination=14][Cry of Frustration][Fevered Dreams][Cry of Pain][Empathy][Wandering Eye][Mistrust][Pain Inverter][Glyph of lesser Energy][/build]
[build PvE name="Sosuke" prof=E/Mo energystorage=15 air=11 protection=9][Ether Renewal][Aura of Restoration][Air Attunement][Blinding Flash][Lightning Orb][Protective Spirit][Aegis][Extinguish][/build]
[build PvE name="Olias" prof=N/Rt restoration=12 channeling=10 soulreaping=10][Weapon of Remedy][Splinter Weapon][Mend Body and Soul][Spirit Light][Protective was Kaolai][Life][Signet of lost Souls][Death Pact Signet][/build]
[build PvE name="Livia" prof=N/Rt soulreaping=9 channeling=12 curses=13][Spiteful Spirit][Ancestors Rage][Splinter Weapon][Spirit Burn][Enfeebling Blood][optional][Signet of lost Souls][Death Pact Signet][/build]

That is very similar to a team build I just used!

[build PvE name="Me" prof=Me fastcasting=9 illusion=14 inspiration=11][Wandering Eye][Fevered Dreams][Fragility][Arcane Conundrum][Phantom Pain][Drain Delusions][Hex Eater Signet][Power Drain][/build]
[Kahmu;OgijkyrIrSXXgbibbbXgMXQXJXA]
[Xandra;OACjEyiM5MHXvJGzxNMlmjzLGA]
[Master of Whispers;OAhkUoG6xGG0emdwujaglQCYlQyF]

It works really well when YOU are the Mesmer. Conditions can be used to massive effect in PvE to disable Enemies and cause massive degen. I incidentally posted a similar idea to ths build URL=http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3992030&postcount=4]here[/URL].

guruspack · Jun 24, 2008, 07:37 AM // 07:37

ok, i have tested yesterday in dalada uplands in hm. to be honest, it was a kind of gamble. i did serveral runs threw that area, a few were good, a few were bad. later i have killed selvetarm in slavers exil with this build, without big problems. but i have to say, this was in nm and so it is not that challange at all, i think.
livia looked at the end of the evening like this:
[Spiteful Spirit][Defile Flesh][Splinter Weapon][Ancestors Rage][Spirit Burn][Enfeebling Blood][Rip Enchantment][Signet of lost Souls]
and as upier has advised, i have filled up my team with mhenlo, aidan, zho and talon.

after all that testing my opinion is still the same, it is a very stable build, which is capable to vanquish most areas in hm. but keep in mind, what i have said in my first post, i still think that sabway is the strongest build to run for a mesmer. my goal wasn't to beat sabway.

the next days i will test a discord-teamsetup. i think, with yourself as an ap-nuker it can be fun

DarkSpirit · Jun 24, 2008, 08:07 AM // 08:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by guruspack

ok, i have tested yesterday in dalada uplands in hm. to be honest, it was a kind of gamble. i did serveral runs threw that area, a few were good, a few were bad.

I find it to be quite weak in HM Dalada Uplands.

Quote:

after all that testing my opinion is still the same, it is a very stable build, which is capable to vanquish most areas in hm. but keep in mind, what i have said in my first post, i still think that sabway is the strongest build to run for a mesmer. my goal wasn't to beat sabway.

Sabway is not the strongest 3-heroes team build, it is a generic build.

upier · Jun 24, 2008, 08:11 AM // 08:11

Btw - I am just wondering ... since you are using only 2 PvE-only skills - why not use [Finish Him]?
You'd spread DW and cracked all over the party that way also.
Or maybe [Technobabble]?

(Ohh and if you take a DW with you - keep in mind that DW and Defile Flesh don't stack. Since DW reduces healing - it kinda makes Defile useless.)

guruspack · Jun 24, 2008, 08:15 AM // 08:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

I find it to be quite weak in HM Dalada Uplands. Have you tried killing HM Horai Wingshielder with that build using H/H?

No, I don't know that area very well, an he didn't cross my way. But I can try it, if you want me to?

upier · Jun 24, 2008, 08:25 AM // 08:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by guruspack

No, I don't know that area very well, an he didn't cross my way. But I can try it, if you want me to?

Considering you know that this should be the toughest cookie in the area - why not modify your mesmers bar for it? Maybe something like Diversion and Arcane Larceny? Plus you can ride the Siege-dude.
It's not like you NEED to use the same build all the time