Curse

payne · Jun 09, 2008, 06:25 PM // 18:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meth

Still, I think half the reason he's getting flamed is because he suggested _URSAN_ in the first post and has the gall to call it balanced. It's ursan noobs like that whom the majority of posters here laugh it. The horrible grammar and slang is a close second in stupidity though.

OP comes across as a troll using the Bait and Switch tactic.

wonder when the OP gets back if I'm gonna look at this thread tomorrow to check the +1 flame count ^^

yer ursan screwed this thread from the start...my first post on first page...that and what you quoted :P

Tyla · Jun 09, 2008, 06:30 PM // 18:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

What good is that for the Ele? Unless you are depending on wand/splinter damage, which sucks. Ancestor's rage is only adjacent attacks and all his heroes are ranged fighters, besides his Ursan. Furthermore sabway doesn't need to bring ancestor's rage either.

Read the OP then, you can always use something other than Ursan!

Oh, and by the way, they can target allies and Ancestor's will work on an Ursan too.

Quote:

And enchantments are very powerful elements in this game.

Besides weakness is useful only against melee, and pretty much useless against casters. Melee monsters/heroes are scared of AoE and run from them like useless headless chickens anyway so the Ele attacks serve as both protection and strong offense.

Yet, so is Aegis. And either way, weakness is useful only against melee? That's one whole damage type. You've got elemental, and physical, and one skill mitigates the whole of one of them.

DarkSpirit · Jun 09, 2008, 06:34 PM // 18:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by distilledwill

Its a work in progress, but my thinking is that enemies knocked down by unsteady ground and churning earth (basically, any enemy in HM) will be more likely to be hit by spirit rift and the minions will have more of a chance of surrounding them to initiate the pain.

DA para is to protect the casters, interupt the casters and provide additional DPS. DA works well as the character ive been using this on is a caster and so can take advantage of its blocking.

Thanks distilledwill. Honestly I prefer an Earth build to a Fire build and you did hint on your Ele in an earlier post.

I played with a similar build with your earlier input, and the Ele's energy keeps running very low even with GoLE and attunement. I suspect they are not using Glowstone correctly. Anyway I would try it out after work.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Read the OP then, you can always use something other than Ursan!

Oh, and by the way, they can target allies and Ancestor's will work on an Ursan too.

To bring that would imply a certain build on the player, so it can be fine as a variant but not useful as a generic build.

Quote:

Yet, so is Aegis. And either way, weakness is useful only against melee? That's one whole damage type. You've got elemental, and physical, and one skill mitigates the whole of one of them.

Weakness only grants a pitiful -1 to Ele attributes, not a significant counter to massive Ele damage in HM. It works differently against casters who dont depend on normal attacks (from their wands/staves) so much for their damage. Main damage from casters are through their spells.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Weakness

Quote:

Originally Posted by wiki

Weakness is a condition that reduces the damage output of melee or ranged attackers by 66% and will reduce all non-zero attribute levels of the character suffering from it by 1 (before runes).
Weakness does not apply to damage bonuses gained from attack skills.

distilledwill · Jun 09, 2008, 06:46 PM // 18:46

Tyla isnt denying that it is less useful against casters, hes merely stating the advantage of having a single skill which so effectively combats a whole damage type (physical).

DarkSpirit · Jun 09, 2008, 06:52 PM // 18:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by distilledwill

Tyla isnt denying that it is less useful against casters, hes merely stating the advantage of having a single skill which so effectively combats a whole damage type (physical).

If that is the case, one can also use blind, or blocking or make them flee through AoE when used against physical melee attackers which are the main physical damage source in PvE.

Don't get me wrong, weakness is very useful. But with a MM, the biggest payback from using weakness is that tanking minions last longer. Otherwise with minions to hold aggro and AoE to cause melee monstsers to run around, it is not such a big problem even without weakness.

Tyla · Jun 09, 2008, 06:56 PM // 18:56

Quote:

Weakness only grants a pitiful -1 to Ele attributes, not a significant counter to massive Ele damage in HM. It works differently against casters who dont depend on normal attacks (from their wands/staves) so much for their damage. Main damage from casters are through their spells.

I've had this argument before.

Look, ONE skill to combat the whole of ONE damage output (Physical) is extremely strong.

It's less energy intensive than anything that anyone can bring up, and because enemies in PvE like to gather round a target, it poses an advantage, especially because it's in a nearby radius.

Multiple layers of defense builds a strong team. Especially when you're also packed on damage at the same time.

And at the Splinter / Ancestor's bit, notice where I also put a Ward underneath it.

DarkSpirit · Jun 09, 2008, 07:01 PM // 19:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

I've had this argument before.

Look, ONE skill to combat the whole of ONE damage output (Physical) is extremely strong.

It's less energy intensive than anything that anyone can bring up, and because enemies in PvE like to gather round a target, it poses an advantage, especially because it's in a nearby radius.

Multiple layers of defense builds a strong team. Especially when you're also packed on damage at the same time.

I have already replied to that above.

Quote:

And at the Splinter / Ancestor's bit, notice where I also put a Ward underneath it.

And the ward is covered thanks to Herta. But in the 2 campaigns without Herta then I agree, a ward would be useful.

The Meth · Jun 09, 2008, 07:03 PM // 19:03

Physical attacks are the biggest source of damage in Hard Mode.

Weakness makes all physical attacks pitifully weak.

Enfeebling Blood costs 1e, has 100% upkeep and inflicts weakness in a large range.

Therefore Enfeebling blood is awesome

Someone argue with that logic please. While you are at it name another skill that stops the vast majority of damage in HM for 1 energy and has 100% upkeep. Make it AoE too.

Tyla · Jun 09, 2008, 07:06 PM // 19:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

I have already replied to that above.

Well I really don't know what to say right now, other than stop being stubborn.

One skill to combat an entire damage source is an extremely powerful thing. I recall Ensign saying that this is the most powerful thing a Necro could ever bring, and trust me, it is the most powerful defensive support skill anything could bring.

Just because it doesn't work against casters is not the point, because if that logic was true, all counters against physical damage are bad. I would seriously consider this over everything else that mitigates damage over in the PvE side.

DarkSpirit · Jun 09, 2008, 07:07 PM // 19:07

Agree that weakness is awesome, I just wish the hero would spam it more though.

But Herta's ward helps out somewhat and I believe the OP uses Ursan which has weakness built in. He should test it without Ursan or add Enfeebling blood into his build or at least a ward for the 2 campaigns without Herta.

-Lotus- · Jun 09, 2008, 11:39 PM // 23:39

DarkSpirit, your post are so full of fail they hurt my brain trying to comprehend your logic.

before this goes any farther down the drain, would you please, please explain your theory about how AoE scattering mobs is good?

DarkSpirit · Jun 09, 2008, 11:43 PM // 23:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Lotus-

DarkSpirit, your post are so full of fail they hurt my brain trying to comprehend your logic.

before this goes any farther down the drain, would you please, please explain your theory about how AoE scattering mobs is good?

I already did hundreds of time throughout the thread. If you are too lazy to search, I am too lazy to repeat myself. Just use a melee hero, see them fail when monsters cast AoE and find out for yourself.

-Lotus- · Jun 10, 2008, 02:05 AM // 02:05

my melee heroes run around and most of the time they end up overextending into the enemy backline. this is a problem for koss, who is level 20 with normal stats, that dosnt heal himself. its not such a problem for HM mobs which hit much harder and are much harder to kill. so how is throwing them into your backline a good thing?

The Meth · Jun 10, 2008, 03:14 AM // 03:14

The idea is that if you keep casting AoE on monsters while they are on your backline it will scatter them and make them run around in circles instead of attacking. The whole idea is mostly pointless though because you could just cast enfeebling blood on them and then use the other 7 skills on your bar to pwn their face.

Snow Bunny · Jun 10, 2008, 05:42 AM // 05:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

I already did hundreds of time throughout the thread. If you are too lazy to search, I am too lazy to repeat myself. Just use a melee hero, see them fail when monsters cast AoE and find out for yourself.

Or you could not suck shit at this game and simply make a build with good synergy thathas enough defense to manage the mobs without having to scatter them.

DarkSpirit · Jun 10, 2008, 05:49 AM // 05:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Lotus-

my melee heroes run around and most of the time they end up overextending into the enemy backline.

You dont need an AoE attack to cause stupid Koss to overextend himself, he already does this on his own very well. Just set him to attack and control-cllick a far target and there he goes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

Or you could not suck shit at this game and simply make a build with good synergy thathas enough defense to manage the mobs without having to scatter them.

To each his own, if you dont like to use an Ele hero then dont use one. I didnt originate this thread anyway, so why should I care if you like Slayer's build or not? In the end, it all boils down to personal preference and playing style.

I like the AoE scatter as I can use it to stop melee enemies but you cant, then so be it. Perhaps you are the one who suck in this game? I have used every progressive versions of sabway for a long time now. I have no need to switch to this one if it hasn't worked better for me.

I am enjoying this build, and you can stick to whatever build you are using, sabway or otherwise. I am sure that is the best possible build for you.

itsvictor · Jun 10, 2008, 05:51 AM // 05:51

I can't believe this thread is still going tbh. It's becoming a flame war between DarkSpirit and others. I like scattering monsters and watching them try attacking my backline that is layed in passive defense...Then I earthshaker them and watch more aoe rain. It's more dynamic than tank&spank tbh.

DarkSpirit · Jun 10, 2008, 06:24 AM // 06:24

If the build doesn't work for you then dont use it. If it works, then use it.

You can heap 7 pages or more of insults at slayer or myself and jump as much as you like, but you still cant change our gaming experience, with this build, one way or another.

I dont know why you have to be so hostile to someone who just offered to share a hero team build that has worked well for him, even if he ursans or even if the build has flaws and can be improved upon. And you wonder why some people have stopped posting "new idea" builds in this forum.

That is all I am going to say for this thread.

Tyla · Jun 10, 2008, 06:47 AM // 06:47

The 'It works' card is stupid.

Why would you rather not take a half decent midliner (In other words, UTILITY) and a hybrid Monk? Tried and tested, many variations, easy.

Taking on the strongest things you can use makes the build more powerful, be it through synergy or being a better skill in general, is a very good thing.

DarkSpirit · Jun 10, 2008, 06:55 AM // 06:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

The 'It works' card is stupid.

Why would you rather not take a half decent midliner (In other words, UTILITY) and a hybrid Monk? Tried and tested, many variations, easy.

Taking on the strongest things you can use makes the build more powerful, be it through synergy or being a better skill in general, is a very good thing.

Then why didnt anyone tell that to slayer for the first few, I dont know, 4 pages or so? And help to produce a stronger workable build out of that and it is not like slayer didnt read your comments and tried to improve his team build either, he updated them.