Curse

DarkSpirit · Aug 06, 2008, 04:02 PM // 16:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by distilledwill

If I were in a team with myself running discord and a friend running say 1/2 more discord spikers and a couple of N/Rt healers I think I'd like one of them to have [[Icy Veins] in order to get the AoE damage upon death, In combination with [[Putrid Bile] (which is in my discord build) its could be quite effective.

The big difference between Putrid Bile and Icy Veins is, one is an elite and therefore would replace Discord, and the other is not. So the question is not whether IV is effective but rather, is IV more effective than Discord for that hero.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seventh_Samurai

In the future I'm also going to try having the person who's healer has Life replace his/her healer's Discord with [Icy Veins], allowing them to not put any points into Death Magic (maxing Restoration and Soul Reaping and using only a minor SR rune on the headpiece) and doing more damage on the death of a target.

I dont think attribute points is an issue. The difference is, without Discord, you can max Soul Reaping. I can have 12 Restoration, 12 Death, and 9 Soul Reaping after minor runes. I dont think it is necessary to max soul reaping especially with a bone minion MM bomber around you should not need that much energy.

Seventh_Samurai · Aug 06, 2008, 07:03 PM // 19:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

I can have 12 Restoration, 12 Death, and 9 Soul Reaping after minor runes. I dont think it is necessary to max soul reaping especially with a bone minion MM bomber around you should not need that much energy.

Well, I like to have at least 13 Soul Reaping so Foul Feast takes at most 2 energy, and if it draws 2 conditions, the healer gains energy. I suppose I could lower Soul reaping and just use Sig of Lost Souls, but then I lose the condition pulls (probably not a huge deal anyway). As far as energy from the MM bomber, that's true, but after the Soul Reaping nerf it's less effective than you'd hope.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

How often do you face a problematic mob with D-shot and diversion in pve? Weaken Armor recharges in 5s while enfeebling blood recharges at 8, so even if they are removed, you can recast them.

True, outside of a few areas in Factions, it's very rare... And since the recharge is low, I guess it wouldn't be too bad to replace them...but with what? Sure, more Restoration skills would be nice, but then your stats are spread too thin. I suppose I could go with only one hexer/condition spreader, and my friend could instead run w/ two healers, but against some things with heavy hex/condition removal, it might not work as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

The big difference between Putrid Bile and Icy Veins is, one is an elite and therefore would replace Discord, and the other is not. So the question is not whether IV is effective but rather, is IV more effective than Discord for that hero.

From the little testing I've done, it seems like IV is useful in a few areas, and a bad idea in others. To summarize:

Use IV when...

...fighting dense groups of mobs (Arachni's Haunt, Magus Stones, Secret Lair of the Snowmen, etc.).
...fighting groups with heavy hex removal.
...in groups of 8 when at least one of the two players takes Discord/Necrosis.

Don't use IV when...

...fighting smaller groups of enemies (essentially all of Prophecies).
...in groups smaller than 8, or when both players lack Discord/Necrosis.
...when you need to run a split at any point in the quest/mission/vanq.

In either case you don't want it on more than one player, ever. However, if you follow those guidelines, I think you can be better off with IV on one healer in some situations.

DarkSpirit · Aug 06, 2008, 07:19 PM // 19:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seventh_Samurai

Well, I like to have at least 13 Soul Reaping so Foul Feast takes at most 2 energy, and if it draws 2 conditions, the healer gains energy. I suppose I could lower Soul reaping and just use Sig of Lost Souls, but then I lose the condition pulls (probably not a huge deal anyway). As far as energy from the MM bomber, that's true, but after the Soul Reaping nerf it's less effective than you'd hope.

At level 9, I already draw 2 energy per condition, but if you hit 13, you get 1 energy more per condition which is quite insignificant.

Quote:

True, outside of a few areas in Factions, it's very rare... And since the recharge is low, I guess it wouldn't be too bad to replace them...but with what? Sure, more Restoration skills would be nice, but then your stats are spread too thin. I suppose I could go with only one hexer/condition spreader, and my friend could instead run w/ two healers, but against some things with heavy hex/condition removal, it might not work as well.

I already have maxed restoration, and 12 death. The only difference is my 9 SR compared to your 13 SR.

Try different hexes and conditions. Rotting Flesh is annoying with 3s cast, but it is disease so it spreads, it is still fine by me. By the way, your IV doesn't leverage on weaken armor as much as you mentioned since weaken armor is cast on the IV target rather than surrounding targets.

Quote:

From the little testing I've done, it seems like IV is useful in a few areas, and a bad idea in others. To summarize:

I would try replacing a Discord with IV and see if it works better, but I am a little doubtful.

distilledwill · Aug 06, 2008, 09:21 PM // 21:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

The big difference between Putrid Bile and Icy Veins is, one is an elite and therefore would replace Discord, and the other is not. So the question is not whether IV is effective but rather, is IV more effective than Discord for that hero.

I think i explained what I meant poorly, I mean that I would put IV on one of the /Rt healers in replace of WoR or whatever. I have more than enough condi removal in my FF + Infuse MM to replace the elite with a little more damage.

I wouldnt be replacing Discord with it on any of the builds, but not every hero can have discord (as has been stated, thats a little overkill). So over the other elites I could choose from in the necro/rt lines (limiting to SR and Restoration) I decided that IV isnt a bad choice, considering a good deal of discordway's damage is single target, a nice bit of AoE would get the ball rolling. Plus its another hex, which helps Discord along.

Cathode_Reborn · Aug 06, 2008, 11:55 PM // 23:55

The main advantage I see in using Icy Veins is that it's in Soul Reaping, so the nec go N/Mo or N/Rt and heal/prot without having to spec into any other lines for damage. With that being said, the skill should suck a little. It wouldn't be a good idea to have a very damaging skill in the same line as the most powerful e-management in PvE. I think it could at least go back to being 5e. I've used the skill myself and it's not really impressive when it's damage is constantly being reduced by armor.

kanuks · Aug 08, 2008, 06:53 PM // 18:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cathode_Reborn

I tried it and liked it a little. For conditions, you can just add Barbed or Blazing Spear to your bar and stick with a typical "SY" build. Hexes were the annoying part - Parasitic Bond seemed like a good spammable hex to slap on one of the necs, then I found out hero AI is weird with it...They spend time trying to cast it on as many enemies as they can

It's been a while but I think target-spamming helped a little. The biggest benefit of being a Nec or Mes is you get easier access to hexes/conditions so it saves skillspace and attributes on the heroes.

Well there is a crapload of anti-phys there. It's also one of the few areas in the game that actually has Soothing Images, and in HM those Stone summit can easily keep it on you the entire time. Also, if you really H/H'd Duncan in HM without consets/etc, I'd really like to see a screenshot. That place is insane in HM...

I have no clue how he did it with sabway. I did it using my own personnally twinked heroes but when i tried with sabway i got thrashed.

Cathode_Reborn · Aug 09, 2008, 06:40 AM // 06:40

After yesterday's update, Asuran Scan now has 0 cast time.

Phys classes just got alot stronger and now have an easy hex for Discord.

MisterT69 · Aug 09, 2008, 05:43 PM // 17:43

Hmmm, just been thinking, how bout replacing the WoR on the healer bar w/[xinrae's weapon]. After the update, its just 2 ub3r to pass up. And you don't need WoR's condition removal if the MM brings foul feast. IMO xinrae's is just a great heal and spike preventer all in 1 1/4sec cast spell.

Turbobusa · Aug 09, 2008, 06:34 PM // 18:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cathode_Reborn

After yesterday's update, Asuran Scan now has 0 cast time.

Phys classes just got alot stronger and now have an easy hex for Discord.

Hooo very nice, thank you for pointing that I missed it when I read the update.
Shame other PvE skills are better imo...

-Lotus- · Aug 09, 2008, 09:52 PM // 21:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterT69

Hmmm, just been thinking, how bout replacing the WoR on the healer bar w/[xinrae's weapon]. After the update, its just 2 ub3r to pass up. And you don't need WoR's condition removal if the MM brings foul feast. IMO xinrae's is just a great heal and spike preventer all in 1 1/4sec cast spell.

thats what im using

its sweet.

Whirlwind · Aug 10, 2008, 03:00 AM // 03:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by kanuks

I have no clue how he did it with sabway. I did it using my own personnally twinked heroes but when i tried with sabway i got thrashed.

My necro buddy and i both run a very tweaked sabway, and clear all of slavers in NM +duncan in HM once per day, sometimes twice. Even the HM run to duncan isnt that bad, but in the normal 4 dungeons up to there we don't even stop moving, you just steamroll. Im prety hesitant to even try discord, because there is nothing yet that has stopped us with Sabway.. Someone try to convince me..

-Lotus- · Aug 10, 2008, 04:00 AM // 04:00

after playing with XW today its slightly disappointing, the skill work's great, but olias seems to have something against casting it.

Seventh_Samurai · Aug 10, 2008, 08:12 AM // 08:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Lotus-

...olias seems to have something against casting it.

Killed by the AI again! Oh well...at least they spam Discord (mostly)...

Edit: Oh, this also works well when playing monk w/ my modded discord-way
[Mo/N Me;OwQTU4HDHKgoe4uKm5GUW0zTmAA]

Without sin's promise to feed your energy when something dies, energy management becomes a big concern when spamming Necrosis and Discord, so I threw the sig in there, which works okay. There aren't a whole lot of other options for energy management as a Mo/N. [Lightbringer signet], post-buff, is awesome wherever you can use it in NF, so I take that instead when I can.

This gives out some more DPS than my sin's promise variant, but I still like the sin's promise bar, only things usually die so quickly I usually don't bother taking pain inverter now. It's still a good idea for certain bosses, but overall I find I would just do more dmg w/ something like this if that's the main concern.

Fragile Feeling · Aug 10, 2008, 08:32 AM // 08:32

Wow, thank you lol I have been waiting to see if a monk could play any other roll with their discord heroes other than heal... I might have to try that out!

Thx

daze · Aug 10, 2008, 10:04 AM // 10:04

At the risk of being flamed for not knowing the terminology i would love some clarification. I figured out what discordway is from being able to see the build. But im afraid most of the terminology leaves my head spinning. Like Sabway? Imbagon? Rac's Build... If anyone could either explain or share a link to an explanation of what these mean i would be greatly appreciative.

I found the link to discordway and sabway but only discordway explained why it is named as such

AcousticMeanie · Aug 10, 2008, 11:01 AM // 11:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by daze

At the risk of being flamed for not knowing the terminology i would love some clarification. I figured out what discordway is from being able to see the build. But im afraid most of the terminology leaves my head spinning. Like Sabway? Imbagon? Rac's Build... If anyone could either explain or share a link to an explanation of what these mean i would be greatly appreciative.

I found the link to discordway and sabway but only discordway explained why it is named as such

Sabway is named after the person who put it all together Sab...it's Sab's Way. Check out the name on the OP of the 3 Necro HM thread

Same goes for Racway...the thread for that is my paragons buddies

Imba = imbalanced, gon = paragon, imbagon = imbalanced paragon. This build is a paragon that Spams ["Save Yourselves!"] like none other

Fragile Feeling · Aug 10, 2008, 04:56 PM // 16:56

Ever since IWAY (I Will Avenge You), people have always added "way" onto the ends of things to make it sound cooler..

Ex: sabway, racway, discordway, zergway, sway, and even the new cryway

EDIT: and discordway is better known actually as Discord Spam

High Moral · Aug 11, 2008, 01:44 AM // 01:44

I find playing discord way as a monk alittle, ... annoying.. I like the idea of using discord on the monk also. But, as you said.. it looks pretty dam mana heavy? SPECIALLY if you actually plan on using your prot stuff.

Seventh_Samurai · Aug 11, 2008, 03:10 AM // 03:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by High Moral

...it looks pretty dam mana heavy? SPECIALLY if you actually plan on using your prot stuff.

Yeah, that's why the sin's promise build (it's on page 7) works better in areas w/ lots of mobs or heavy e-denial. Also, the sin's promise variant is more defensive (lets you keep aegis up, etc.), so pick and choose which build to use accordingly.

Edit: Managed to set a record today on Glint's Challenge, #1 in the last 24 hours. Used my Mo/N build w/ [Alkar's Alchemical Acid] instead of Summon Ice Imp. Pic here. Should have taken [Resurrection Signet] instead of Rebirth, but oh well, no one died so it didn't matter.