Curse

Super Igor · Apr 17, 2008, 02:14 PM // 14:14

Yeah but Martir removes them every 10 seconds for 3 energy considering the casting time, Foul Feast removes all of them every two seconds for free, and imo, rarely your whole team is packed with cnditions, if it is though they are spammed often enough to be reapplyed again before Martir recharges so its better to just keep removing conditions from an important party member again and again, also, having Martir or Contagion prevents you to use better elites which isnt worth doing.

~Super Igor

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Targuil · Apr 17, 2008, 02:38 PM // 14:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

why martir > foul feast? you can do the exact same thing with foul feast without wastin an elite slot.

~Super Igor

~

Aah, yeah foul feast. I used this build before Gwen was even released. Yeah, I agree that's quite wasted elite but in my opinion most minion bomber elites don't make too much difference really. Bone minions+Death nova is basically everything you need.

Sethellington · Apr 17, 2008, 03:38 PM // 15:38

elites exist for a reason, and there's a lot of good options for MMs

DarkSpirit · Apr 17, 2008, 04:02 PM // 16:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueNovember

Actually, it wouldn't. It was fixed along with a whole load of damage enchants (balth aura, ...a-rage?) after someone made a big bug thread listing the fun you could have with [Verata's Aura] and [skill]Contemplation of Purity[/skill].

[Contemplation of Purity] removes enchantments from yourself, not from your minions. Death Nova is an enchantment that the MM casts on his minions if they are dying, not on himself (unless he is dying too).

Quote:

Personally I'd happily take death-pact (seriously, DPS = Damage per second ¬_¬) on an MM. I want my SS to keep casting and my n/rt to keep healing. I'd say you'd be far worse off if they died.

Even if you need to bring a res on your MM there are a lot better and safer choices out there than DPS. No matter how much you justify that your minions attacking you are not dishing out big damage, it doesn't matter. It is still an undesirable battle condition that can be easily avoided by choosing any other res for your MM, besides DPS. As an example, you can start slapping yourself lightly and say it is ok because it doesn't hurt much, but that is still a silly action. Having your own minions which your MM sac health, energy, time, for turn against you, in mid-battle, is silly in the same way. I have not seen anyone provide any good justification why having your own minions turn against you, is desirable, yet.

Chthon · Apr 17, 2008, 06:14 PM // 18:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anime Divine

ive been toying with mm builds
so anyone know order of the vampire works on minions?
well i can say it works sometimes as me being a war

It does not. Order of Undeath works on minions, however (1) the hero AI uses it poorly and will sometimes sac themselves to death with it, and (2) it's a minion master skill, while your hero should be running a minion bomber build. Jagged Bones is the minion bomber elite of choice.

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@Dark Spirit/Spaced Invader. I give up. Do whatever you want. If you're not capable of H+Hing at the level where someone dying twice in 2 minutes is extremely unlikely, then don't use DPSig. I really wish you'd stop insisting that DPSig is a terrible idea because nobody is capable of playing at that level; because, in fact, many of us are capable of doing so, and DPSig is the best option for us. But I recognize that there's no hope of ever convincing you of this, so I'm not going to bother anymore.

The Meth · Apr 17, 2008, 06:21 PM // 18:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

@Dark Spirit/Spaced Invader. I give up. Do whatever you want. If you're not capable of H+Hing at the level where someone dying twice in 2 minutes is extremely unlikely, then don't use DPSig. I really wish you'd stop insisting that DPSig is a terrible idea because nobody is capable of playing at that level; because, in fact, many of us are capable of doing so, and DPSig is the best option for us. But I recognize that there's no hope of ever convincing you of this, so I'm not going to bother anymore.

If you are good enough that you don't die in PvE, why are you wasting a slot on Death Pact Signet? Henchies have 2 res signets, that should be more then enough. That is the best option.

DarkSpirit · Apr 17, 2008, 06:22 PM // 18:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

@Dark Spirit/Spaced Invader. I give up. Do whatever you want. If you're not capable of H+Hing at the level where someone dying twice in 2 minutes is extremely unlikely, then don't use DPSig. I really wish you'd stop insisting that DPSig is a terrible idea because nobody is capable of playing at that level; because, in fact, many of us are capable of doing so, and DPSig is the best option for us. But I recognize that there's no hope of ever convincing you of this, so I'm not going to bother anymore.

Maybe we are just playing 2 different modes of the game. In NM, it is easy to stay alive with any half-decent build. In HM, henchies/heroes DO die from time to time and dying the first time (with DP) makes them even more likely to die a second time during a tough battle. And in NM, I wouldn't even bother with putting a res on my MM. I dont even need a res on my MM in HM as a matter of fact and neither does Sab. Anyway, put DPS on your MM for all I care, some of us just dont think that is the best res for a MM that's all.

Coloneh · Apr 17, 2008, 08:59 PM // 20:59

Im pretty sure i see the problem with these people arguing about DPS being bad. you guys are obviously thinking of the skill in its origional form. look at its current form:

Quote:

Resurrect target party member with your current Health and 15..83% maximum Energy. The next time that ally dies within 120 seconds, so do you.

they added a duration. the duration is 2 minutes. 2 minutes is short. remember you read your skill updates guys. what was that? a year ago?

DarkSpirit · Apr 17, 2008, 10:04 PM // 22:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

Im pretty sure i see the problem with these people arguing about DPS being bad. you guys are obviously thinking of the skill in its origional form. look at its current form:

they added a duration. the duration is 2 minutes. 2 minutes is short. remember you read your skill updates guys. what was that? a year ago?

We know its current form. 2 minutes is a long time in a battle against 1 mob assumming proper pulling and aggro. Typically my entire battle from beginning to the end, in HM against 1 mob, lasts shorter than 2 minutes. By then, we would know who wins the battle. You should try timing yours.

Spaced Invader · Apr 17, 2008, 11:31 PM // 23:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

@Dark Spirit/Spaced Invader. I give up. Do whatever you want. If you're not capable of H+Hing at the level where someone dying twice in 2 minutes is extremely unlikely, then don't use DPSig. I really wish you'd stop insisting that DPSig is a terrible idea because nobody is capable of playing at that level; because, in fact, many of us are capable of doing so, and DPSig is the best option for us. But I recognize that there's no hope of ever convincing you of this, so I'm not going to bother anymore.

It's not about what I am capable of.
[Epeen]I actually have been among the 300 first Alpha Testers worldwide, playing Guild Wars since early 2004, having reached Legendary Vanquisher and Legendary Protector quite a while ago.[/Epeen]
(Although I am still a mediocre talented player at best.)

It's actually not about you either.
If you are not capable of H/Hing without a rez on your MM (like almost anyone else, even a scrub like me), then for christ's sake do it.
Use Healing Signet while being in Frenzy stance.
Triple Echo Mending.
Do whatever you like.
I. Don't. Care.

However, as a matter of fact, zillions of inexperienced players all around the world DO regard the Wiki as the Bible and Guru (and threads like this) as the Brain Trust of GW.
There actually is no right or wrong way to play GW.
All I did, was pointing out that your choice (Death Pact Signet on a MM) is a very questionable one (more questionable than the little sidenote you repeated 28 times would indicate), which quite some people do agree on.

I did it with a very neutral statement ("I would strongly suggest not to use Death Pact Signet on an MM bar.") directed at noone in particular.
If you feel that offended by contrary arguments, I feel very sorry for your fragile ego.
But unfortunately for you, we are living in countries (or a forum for that matter) with freedom of speech. So you gotta deal with it, whether you like it or not.
Welcome to the world of discussion forums.

[e]Interesting enough you say that 120 seconds are "nothing".
Then you say that you kill any monster group in less than 30 seconds.
So in 120 seconds you actually kill four (4) groups of monsters in Hardmode.

Which is nothing to you, using your own definition.
You also say that it is impossible to die twice in that time span (4 monster groups in HM).

So why would an overly skilled player like you need an additional sixth or seventh rez (not to mention that it is the riskiest one) on your MM, if everyone and their brother (even a scrub like me) can do it without?

aleaf92 · Apr 17, 2008, 11:53 PM // 23:53

Basically all an MM needs is Jagged Bones, Bone Minions, Death Nova, Signet of Lost Souls, Blood of the Master, and a resurrection skill (I suggest Death Pact Signet, which requires Ritualist secondary). The rest of the skills are area specific. If there are lots of annoying hexes throw on Remove Hex, or a hex remover of your choice.

Antithesis · Apr 18, 2008, 12:47 AM // 00:47

In a balanced party there should be enough rez going around that one is not needed on an MM. If you like all party members to have a rez then take DPS. I don't so I won't.

DarkSpirit · Apr 18, 2008, 12:50 AM // 00:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antithesis

In a balanced party there should be enough rez going around that one is not needed on an MM. If you like all party members to have a rez then take DPS. I don't so I won't.

Agree except dont equip DPS on the MM.

Soul Saver · Apr 18, 2008, 02:31 AM // 02:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Covah

We don't want him healing the enemy, your monks can do the healing.

Jagged bones or Aura of the Lich is way better then an elite devoted to making one more minion.

Heal Area is for healing everyone after the battle quickly so you can keep going after you use BotM. Having Flesh Golem is like having another tank or a tank if you dont have one.

Coloneh · Apr 18, 2008, 03:10 AM // 03:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soul Saver

Heal Area is for healing everyone after the battle quickly so you can keep going after you use BotM. Having Flesh Golem is like having another tank or a tank if you dont have one.

Heal area is for healing your enemies

and flesh golem is a big, useless chunk of hit points that runs around and never gets attacked because it is to survivable. all it does is run up to targets and wait like 10 seconds before it decides to attack, and by then the target is uaually dead. I would rather take bone horrors.

Antithesis · Apr 18, 2008, 04:02 AM // 04:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Agree except dont equip DPS on the MM.

Depends on your secondary, my MM's are N/Rt. Flesh of My Flesh is another option, i don't use it.

Coloneh · Apr 18, 2008, 04:07 AM // 04:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antithesis

Depends on your secondary, my MM's are N/Rt. Flesh of My Flesh is another option, i don't use it.

now that the nerfed DPS again FomF is about equal.

DarkSpirit · Apr 18, 2008, 04:53 AM // 04:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antithesis

Depends on your secondary, my MM's are N/Rt. Flesh of My Flesh is another option, i don't use it.

DPS on a MM is just unnecessary risk for losing minions. Anyway they just nerfed both DPS and FOMF, not that I care.

Antithesis · Apr 18, 2008, 05:10 AM // 05:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

DPS on a MM is just unnecessary risk for losing minions. Anyway they just nerfed both DPS and FOMF, not that I care.

Makes the fast-cast, fast-recharge Vengeance all the more attractive

DarkSpirit · Apr 18, 2008, 05:26 AM // 05:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antithesis

Makes the fast-cast, fast-recharge Vengeance all the more attractive

Definitely.

Anyway with DPS, the more people you res with it, the higher chance of it killing you. But it is an interesting signet to bring for HM as it is a nice way to help save DP and creating a minion factory, provided the MM is not the one who dies, of course.