Curse

ruffenredie · Sep 23, 2008, 10:10 AM // 10:10

I'd like to use an Assassin hero in pve for my Monk, why are they considered so bad?

I've found some stuff on them not being able to use enchants right or defend or something along those lines, but I'm still unclear.

N1ghtstalker · Sep 23, 2008, 10:12 AM // 10:12

the way they use their skills are terrible
assassin's their strenght is in their chain attacks to quickly spike a target
the npc however can't clearly follow this structure when a skill is blocked or interupted

↓Beat · Sep 23, 2008, 10:13 AM // 10:13

I'm not sure about this, but I don't think that assassin heroes use combos so well. Although, there are a number of skills that they use well. I think on the sticky there's a list of skills.

distilledwill · Sep 23, 2008, 10:16 AM // 10:16

Its the lack of the AI's comprehension of combos and spiking combined with their low armour value and melee heroes being in general a bit crappy.

Yol · Sep 23, 2008, 10:24 AM // 10:24

I think the only time when assassin heroes have a use is if you don't have access to three ranger heroes for hFFF....and even then you are micro-ing their skills.

Draikin · Sep 23, 2008, 11:25 AM // 11:25

They used to be horrible, but their AI was gradually improved to the point where they're viable heroes in PvE/PvP now.

ajc2123 · Sep 23, 2008, 11:43 AM // 11:43

They can't use hexes and then attack skills that require hexes like black mantis thrust, which can ruin a whole chain. They only use simple combos like Golden fox strike, wild strike, death blossom, which isnt really THAT bad. I give Zenmai Flashing blades, that simple combo, a rez and some utility and shes great. Blockin attacks while doing damage. But yea their low armor is a bad point too and Flashing blades isn't efected by ice golem spikes or any spells for that matter

[Morkai] · Sep 23, 2008, 12:10 PM // 12:10

I considered this last night. As such we only have 2 Sin heroes? (Correct me if i'm wrong).

And i thought, hey, why not tool Zenmai up with more armor (through insignia's etc, and ofc Save Yourselves!) And give her a crit scythe build.

High damage, something to help me hold agro, and AoE from a Scythe. Working on a build atm, though it's not my concept so can't take credit for it.

avilia · Sep 23, 2008, 12:48 PM // 12:48

A party needs healers/protectors, damage dealers and tanks. Without the ability to deal amazing amount of damage through correct attack chains (such as repeating Death Blossom -> Moebius Strike until the monster is dead), they fit none of those descriptions. And if they don't, why would you want to bring them?

By the way, all melee heroes suffer from the inability to prioritize attack skills. It's just much more devastating for an assassin.

The only assassin hero that I pull out sometimes (for fun, not because he's that great) is one with Critical Defenses, Critical Eye, Locust's Fury, Heket's Rampage, a pet and no attack skills (use skills/shouts for the pet). This will give you an assassin who attacks extremely fast and does almost no damage per hit. Then I use Ebon Battle Standard of Honor, Great Dwarf Weapon and Barbs/Mark of Pain to ramp up his damage.

distilledwill · Sep 23, 2008, 01:07 PM // 13:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berek

I considered this last night. As such we only have 2 Sin heroes? (Correct me if i'm wrong).

And i thought, hey, why not tool Zenmai up with more armor (through insignia's etc, and ofc Save Yourselves!) And give her a crit scythe build.

High damage, something to help me hold agro, and AoE from a Scythe. Working on a build atm, though it's not my concept so can't take credit for it.

Crit scythe is the only reason I would consider a sin hero, something like this is about as complicated as they can handle:

[Wounding Strike][Mystic Sweep][Chilling Victory][Malicious Strike][Critical Eye][Way Of The Master][Assassin's Remedy][Resurrection Signet]

FoxBat · Sep 23, 2008, 01:17 PM // 13:17

They handle Moebius-blossom spam just fine now, easily hitting 50+ dps. Just be careful to give them a simple lead into it, like Phoenix Strike.

[Morkai] · Sep 23, 2008, 01:30 PM // 13:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by distilledwill

Crit scythe is the only reason I would consider a sin hero, something like this is about as complicated as they can handle:

[Wounding Strike][Mystic Sweep][Chilling Victory][Malicious Strike][Critical Eye][Way Of The Master][Assassin's Remedy][Resurrection Signet]

The bar i threw together just now consists of:

Eremites Attack
Wounding Strike
Mystic Sweep
Disrupting Dagger (cheap interupt, didnt know what else to put there)
Critical Eye
Way of the Master
Assasins Remedy
Ressurection Signet.

Haven't tested it anywhere yet.

viper11025 · Sep 23, 2008, 01:33 PM // 13:33

I make builds that exploit terrible heros for a purpose, [Palm Strike] ftw.

XkristoferX · Sep 23, 2008, 03:10 PM // 15:10

b/c they can't run a perma sin... j/k! or am i???

an a/p is pretty good on a hero.... if you only have assissin heroes.

X

gremlin · Sep 23, 2008, 05:07 PM // 17:07

They may be good or bad I wouldnt know
What I do know is they way I need to use the assassin would overload my ability to control the party.

I need to send in the melee units to pin down the enemy and stop them getting to my back line.
They in turn need to put down fire on the enemy mob.
I am usually busy hexing single targets and keeping an eye on the changes in the battle.
I want the Assassin as an independent entity choosing the enemy back line in the order of healers interrupters and aoe damage dealers and destroying them quickly.

With heroes/henchmen its a full time job keeping the rest on target without messing up my own casting chain to micromanage assassins.

I know you can independantly control heroes from their own mini panel but I am not nimble enough with my fingers to do that.

Its why good human parties or at least half human half hero parties are far superior.

fireflyry · Sep 24, 2008, 01:07 AM // 01:07

Because Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support is a Sin hero in a bottle that actually pulls off the chain right.

Sins are also hugely reliant on Critical Agility to be truly effective in PvE, without access to that they will always be subpar compared to other heroes, regardless of the crap AI.

-Lotus- · Sep 24, 2008, 03:32 AM // 03:32

heroes just suck at melee. they dont target switch. they dont pick good targets. they dont kite. they get stuck. they cant weapon swap... its bad

wilebill · Sep 24, 2008, 07:11 PM // 19:11

Golden fox strike, wild strike, death blossom like AJC 2124 said, and daggers work fine for your assassin hero.

An A/R can also make a good critical interrupter. Shortbow for rate of fire. Or Flatbow.

Before the nerf of Way of the Assassin, spears worked very well also. After the nerf they still work, but not outstanding.

I am not using a Assassin hero at present, instead using a Swordsmanship / Strength Warrior boosted by Great Dwarf Weapon. Add Ele secondary, Grasping Earth at zero attribute slows down mobs by 50% for 8 seconds, 5e cost, 12 sec recharge. Helps keep some of the warriors out of your face. MOX does this as well, but Jora is prettier.

Accursed · Sep 25, 2008, 03:22 PM // 15:22

The don't have the knowledge to properly use their skills combos correctly without messing up/wasting energy.

beserk · Sep 25, 2008, 06:45 PM // 18:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Lotus-

heroes just suck at melee. they dont target switch. they dont pick good targets. they dont kite. they get stuck. they cant weapon swap... its bad

QFT.

12chars.