Curse

Tyla · Oct 26, 2008, 07:33 PM // 19:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

Well, barbs and mop dont requre a lot of miroing because they cast it on the foe you start to attack or on the foe who has most things attacking it and that would be good enough no? Yes, you can micro it thogh, I dont see what scares you so much about it (lol, l2play?

) its not hard, I like microing, hence it will make things blow up epicly, but I have said Necorway, or sabs, is harder to run, thing is that both barbs and mop are really good spells that are key to necorway synergy (besides, SW triggers MoP).

Barbs? No. MoP? Yes. For maximum efficiency, MoP needs micromanagement. Barbs on the other hand, heroes can use this immensely well because they use it on anything getting hit.

Quote:

Rest of the spells, reckless, no doubt a good spell, but you are taking it primerely to fuel damage from SS not really for damage reduction from mob's wanding. SW/AR, indeed great spells, what is more first has synergy with the hexes.

The only use for Reckless in HM is for stopping damage. IAS is already capped out for monsters in HM.

Quote:

Foul Feast, but I agree that there might not be a reason to take sols.

I've found there's no need for SoLS, and that Foul Feast isn't necessarily useful in numbers unless in a Contagion Pressure team build. You don't really need FF for the energy gain if you kill efficiently enough.

Quote:

And, third aegis?! You smoke weed dude, there is absolutely no reason to have an aegis chain in pve, you are never going to spend more than 10 second in battle unless you suck or did something terribly wrong, and the cooldown time is all about running anyway when you shouldnt bother about the chain up.

It heavily boosts defenses, how can it not be worth it? If you have the available skill slots, you might as well take the most advantages you can take. Oh, and maybe you don't aggro a shit ton of enemies, but I, like other people do.

Quote:

Theres no botm, also, minion wall is good.

If there's no BoTM (You shouldn't need BoTM if you're bombing), how will an elite minion help you?

Quote:

Dont. be. bad. :>

He's got a point there. Rebirth is a bad skill, and you'll save time just wiping, but you shouldn't be forced to retreat in PvE unless you do some major (and I mean major) overaggro.

upier · Oct 26, 2008, 08:13 PM // 20:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

Dont. be. bad. :>

You put a rez on a healer?
Since you are only have 2 rezzes - this means that if a party member wipes the guy will start rezzing.
If a guy dies when when there are two people healing - can you imagine what will happen if there is ONLY one guy healing?
So - if you INSIST on bringing a hard rez on a healer - that means this will be used ONLY outside of battle. And in which case - Rebith is the single best rez for that.

There are mid-battle rezzes and there are wipe-out rezzes.
Healers shouldn't be rezzing mid-battle.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

And unless you havent spotted, there is a guy with soa, ps, and aegis allready, you dont need more copies of them.

If I can - I never run PS exclusively (or even) on the healer.
PS doesn't get insanely better with higher investment - and since it's really spammable I'd rather have it on a character that can afford to sometimes burn all their energy on it.

Super Igor · Oct 26, 2008, 11:50 PM // 23:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Barbs? No. MoP? Yes. For maximum efficiency, MoP needs micromanagement. Barbs on the other hand, heroes can use this immensely well because they use it on anything getting hit.

Thats pretty much what I said.

Quote:

The only use for Reckless in HM is for stopping damage. IAS is already capped out for monsters in HM.

Well, stopping some damage is good, shadow of fear might be better but it would take from SS damage which is not good and lets hope some mobs dont have their IAS capped out. :> (oh, and that can be used on Noob-Mode too actually)

Quote:

I've found there's no need for SoLS, and that Foul Feast isn't necessarily useful in numbers unless in a Contagion Pressure team build. You don't really need FF for the energy gain if you kill efficiently enough.

It helps, health and enrgy gain for no enrgy, real good on a hero in pve were things get below 50% very often.

FF is not for health and enrgy gain, its the as the main in-battle condition remover, heroes use it real well, it is easy to micro too, just clock it, hero finds the conditions. Reason I have 13 sr for it is because I can afford it and because it would make more sense on the resto otherwise.

Quote:

It heavily boosts defenses, how can it not be worth it? If you have the available skill slots, you might as well take the most advantages you can take. Oh, and maybe you don't aggro a shit ton of enemies, but I, like other people do.

No, just no, I mean, yes it does surely, in theory, but practically you are never gonna stay in battle longer than Aegis duration in pve and it will recharge out of battle wile you are running, no need to mantain it wile running, though.

Quote:

If there's no BoTM (You shouldn't need BoTM if you're bombing), how will an elite minion help you?

Jagged Bones you mean? Well, arent you bombing?

Quote:

He's got a point there. Rebirth is a bad skill, and you'll save time just wiping, but you shouldn't be forced to retreat in PvE unless you do some major (and I mean major) overaggro.

Theres no use for Rebirth, unless you wan to annoy a noobie pug for fun. :P

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

You put a rez on a healer?

No, I put it on a resto and SS guy because it gathers most DP usually.

Quote:

Since you are only have 2 rezzes - this means that if a party member wipes the guy will start rezzing.
If a guy dies when when there are two people healing - can you imagine what will happen if there is ONLY one guy healing?
So - if you INSIST on bringing a hard rez on a healer - that means this will be used ONLY outside of battle. And in which case - Rebith is the single best rez for that.

Well, nothing will happen if onely one guy is healing, I mean, you will be able to hold for that time, besides you have one sub-healer to asist, and utility guy with blind and wow who helps, sorrow'd minions who heal upon death too and if you micro that "OMGZ ONLY ONE HEALER!" doubt that anything would die in 4 seconds.

Quote:

There are mid-battle rezzes and there are wipe-out rezzes.
Healers shouldn't be rezzing mid-battle.

Yea healers shouldnt, thats why i have my mid-battle res on the resto, and there are mid-battle rezzes that can be used after battle too, or vice versa if you like. Everything else is crap, I mean GG, youve just failed and continue failing by wasting your time on ressing everyone with 6 second cast rebirth...LOL. Oh and how come you are last man standing, ran away when things got bad much eh? :P

Quote:

If I can - I never run PS exclusively (or even) on the healer.
PS doesn't get insanely better with higher investment - and since it's really spammable I'd rather have it on a character that can afford to sometimes burn all their energy on it.

Well, PS is great for luring, and is great against aoe, dragon stomp for example, thats why its good to have firly good investement in prot, chuck it on some characters just before moving in, and it helps really well (e.g. some ele boss with dragon stomp, you prot up some guys, and they LOL at the stomp, GG).

upier · Oct 27, 2008, 12:26 AM // 00:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

No, I put it on a resto and SS guy because it gathers most DP usually.

And how would you classify the resto guy?
I'd say he's a healer ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

Well, nothing will happen if onely one guy is healing, I mean, you will be able to hold for that time, besides you have one sub-healer to asist, and utility guy with blind and wow who helps, sorrow'd minions who heal upon death too and if you micro that "OMGZ ONLY ONE HEALER!" doubt that anything would die in 4 seconds.

So ... we had ALL that support and people died?
And now we are going to remove one healer, while the other one now needs to take care of BOTH jobs and you expect him to do better?
If he is THAT capable - why did people die in the first place?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

Yea healers shouldnt, thats why i have my mid-battle res on the resto, and there are mid-battle rezzes that can be used after battle too, or vice versa if you like. Everything else is crap, I mean GG, youve just failed and continue failing by wasting your time on ressing everyone with 6 second cast rebirth...LOL. Oh and how come you are last man standing, ran away when things got bad much eh? :P

Wait - if you see your party is about to wipe and you have means to save them BUT you need to stay alive for it, you what ... get killed?
If there are no rez shrines of course you run!

The fact that Rebirth is probably one of the best options for a rez in such cases should tell you how much of a failure the hard rez on your healer is.

EDIT:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

No, just no, I mean, yes it does surely, in theory, but practically you are never gonna stay in battle longer than Aegis duration in pve and it will recharge out of battle wile you are running, no need to mantain it wile running, though.

Btw - you know what I find interesting?
If battles REALLY last that short amount of time - there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to run necros to emulate secondary classes.
The whole reason why necros are ran is because the AI sucks when it comes to managing their energy. And when battles last for a very short time - there is next to 0 need to manage one's energy.
So if battles really are that short to negate the need for multiple Aegises - then that also negates the need to run necros. The ability to use runes would justify using primary classes.

Tyla · Oct 27, 2008, 12:40 AM // 00:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

Thats pretty much what I said.

No, you said "don't need a lot of micromanagement", which is immensely wrong with MoP.

Quote:

It helps, health and enrgy gain for no enrgy, real good on a hero in pve were things get below 50% very often.

If you're killing efficiently, there's no reason to take it. There would be something better to use instead.

Quote:

FF is not for health and enrgy gain, its the as the main in-battle condition remover, heroes use it real well, it is easy to micro too, just clock it, hero finds the conditions. Reason I have 13 sr for it is because I can afford it and because it would make more sense on the resto otherwise.

If it's not there for health and energy gain, and you "can afford it because of 13SR" you're doing something wrong. It doesn't matter what level your SR is at if your killing is efficient enough; heck, don't forget minions count towards that.

Quote:

No, just no, I mean, yes it does surely, in theory, but practically you are never gonna stay in battle longer than Aegis duration in pve and it will recharge out of battle wile you are running, no need to mantain it wile running, though.

Well in that case how is SoLS going to help you too?

I myself like to aggro as many groups as I possibly can without blowing up, and a complete Aegis chain allows me to do so more with more durability.

Quote:

Jagged Bones you mean? Well, arent you bombing?

Minions should be more than enough. Discord helps makes deaths stronger.

Cathode_Reborn · Oct 27, 2008, 05:43 AM // 05:43

I honestly don't see any reason to not use Discord x4 in this setup. There's a reason why it got a PvE-only buff.

SS is a pretty outdated skill for damage. It's only real use is in farming groups now. Good teams that get stuff killed fast will find themselves killing the SS'd target often, making it a waste. It just gets worse when used by a hero, especially when they cast it on targets that arn't adjacent to anything. Assuming your build was made for 2 lazy "spartans" though, then maybe it's an Ok skill for them.

SV is decent combined with minions. I'll take it over SS. The bad thing about it is having to spec into Blood.

Jagged Bones has always been a somewhat weak skill ever since the nerf, even in the hands of a hero. A lvl16 minion every 15secs (even if it doesn't require a corpse) isn't that good. Like SS, it's just one of those things you use only because your other options arn't that great, but in this case you do have a better option.

Discord is the only thing you did right. One of the best things about it when it comes to heroes is the fact that it can't ever be wasted - it's direct damage. It's reqs arn't dependant on the target's actions or health. It's spammable and has a quick cast so the damage from it adds up fast when stuff is dying often. SS/SV can't keep up with a team that's scoring fast kills. In a team of 4 necs, meeting it's reqs becomes easy so it basically becomes unconditonal damage. If you want stuff dead fast, that's what you're gonna want, rather then waiting for some conditional hexes to do the job for you. The skill gets even better if the players can help supply the hexes/conditions.

This whole team isn't bad, but if speedkilling is what you're looking for, this isn't something you'd wanna run.

Super Igor · Nov 09, 2008, 11:52 PM // 23:52

[foul feast]+[plague sending] > [foul feast]+[infuse condition], discuss.

Super Igor · Nov 10, 2008, 07:20 PM // 19:20

mmm, upfated abit but dk if it got better or worse. :P