Curse

Tyla · Nov 03, 2008, 04:58 PM // 16:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Destro Maniak

seed of life isnt an awesome skill in your opinion
well learning that you think that skill isnt overpowered, awesome super, made me lose every hope that I can convince you that hb is a good choice and PORTECTION ONYL isnt enough

omg seed of life isnt great huh..?

I like your argument based on the supremacy of Seed of Life!!! You really convinced me there! What I've posted is an argument against SoL. What you've posted is "opinion". Please elaborate.

Oh, and when people need heals, they don't necesarily mean "OMGPACKYOURBARFULLOFHEALSKK", they mean "Use one or two spot heals that are powerful and cheap, you shouldn't need much if you know how to prot properly". You only need a WoH or two to do something right, and I can say that out of experience as one of my friends (who's quit now) I used to vanquish with a lot used a bar full of prots and a single WoH. And for the record, we weren't abusing PvE-only stuff.

Destro Maniak · Nov 03, 2008, 05:34 PM // 17:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

I like your argument based on the supremacy of Seed of Life!!! You really convinced me there! What I've posted is an argument against SoL. What you've posted is "opinion". Please elaborate.

Oh, and when people need heals, they don't necesarily mean "OMGPACKYOURBARFULLOFHEALSKK", they mean "Use one or two spot heals that are powerful and cheap, you shouldn't need much if you know how to prot properly". You only need a WoH or two to do something right, and I can say that out of experience as one of my friends (who's quit now) I used to vanquish with a lot used a bar full of prots and a single WoH. And for the record, we weren't abusing PvE-only stuff.

now as you said that for recordi we werent using pve only stuff
I understand that you are someone that thinks(maybe you also are) that a really experianced person and can do everything with prot only and with a single heal

Okay, that might be possible, BUT I can assure you that taking 3 chars that have prot spirit and taking 2 healer char with healer boon heal other, heal party will do MUCH EASIER
That way the team build will be much safe and forgiving incase you over agroo a second mob

Because there are limits of protection, you cant protect people and make them get 0 damage,

I also wonder what protection did you bring?
Protective Spirit
Aegis
Spirit Bond
Soa

I cant imagine anythin else

Tyla · Nov 03, 2008, 06:38 PM // 18:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Destro Maniak

now as you said that for recordi we werent using pve only stuff
I understand that you are someone that thinks(maybe you also are) that a really experianced person and can do everything with prot only and with a single heal

Maybe I am maybe I'm not, what matters is that I'm capable of undergoing a simple task. Not everyone's dumb, and with Monk heroes you should be microing them anyway.

Quote:

Okay, that might be possible, BUT I can assure you that taking 3 chars that have prot spirit and taking 2 healer char with healer boon heal other, heal party will do MUCH EASIER
That way the team build will be much safe and forgiving incase you over agroo a second mob

lolno.

SoA > 90% of PvE, especially in conjunction with Protective Spirit, further mitigating damage and reducing the need for healing. Other prots, such as Aegis, Spirit Bond, Protective Spirit and to a much lesser extent, Shielding Hands further reduce the need for healing. The only thing I can say to you here is "stop being bad". Oh, and considering PSpirit should be put on a hero if you're using Spirit Bond...

Quote:

Because there are limits of protection, you cant protect people and make them get 0 damage,

I also wonder what protection did you bring?
Protective Spirit
Aegis
Spirit Bond
Soa

I cant imagine anythin else

Enfeebling Blood, makes life much easier on a heavy scale too. Oh, and SoA, Aegis and Spirit Bond really do make damage go down to 0, SB if you're counting sums. Blocking reduces any physical damage to 0 when it takes place, SoA, when it's accumilated enough hits is 0 all the time other than on life stealing.

Super Igor · Nov 04, 2008, 12:49 AM // 00:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

I think Guru has a ton of pictures of people winning PvE with empty skillbars.
They are good enough - but if you strive to get better (as in "more efficient"), they just don't do.
So for anyone that strives to get better - a full-on healer just won't do.

HB is efficient, I mean, it is skill-less, it heals really well, only thing you would really need is cast seeds, and seeds basically turn damage into a heal. For example in the time of ursan it was the most effective option, bears rarely got hit for more than ~20 damage so heals from seed were at their maximum efficiency making prot pretty pointless no? There was nothing to protect. Now idk, tyla has a point, you shud probably have at least prot spirit on you bar because it more efficient, on other hand if you lack skill and dont want to learn get a HB and...never use HB on hero monks.

upier · Nov 04, 2008, 07:42 AM // 07:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

HB is efficient, I mean, it is skill-less, it heals really well, only thing you would really need is cast seeds, and seeds basically turn damage into a heal. For example in the time of ursan it was the most effective option, bears rarely got hit for more than ~20 damage so heals from seed were at their maximum efficiency making prot pretty pointless no? There was nothing to protect. Now idk, tyla has a point, you shud probably have at least prot spirit on you bar because it more efficient, on other hand if you lack skill and dont want to learn get a HB and...never use HB on hero monks.

Mending is good because it helps in keeping the 55 alive.

Super Igor · Nov 04, 2008, 04:13 PM // 16:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Mending is good because it helps in keeping the 55 alive.

And permaform sins if they run with a bonder wutzurpoint?

upier · Nov 04, 2008, 04:45 PM // 16:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

And permaform sins if they run with a bonder wutzurpoint?

The fact that Ursan teams didn't need prots doesn't make protection bad - it just shows how overpowered Ursan was.
The power of Ursan negated the straight up failure that is just healing.
And that fact that you actually used this as an argument for the strength of healing just shows how bad you are.

Destro Maniak · Nov 04, 2008, 05:48 PM // 17:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

The fact that Ursan teams didn't need prots doesn't make protection bad - it just shows how overpowered Ursan was.
The power of Ursan negated the straight up failure that is just healing.
And that fact that you actually used this as an argument for the strength of healing just shows how bad you are.

people that dislike ursan are just elitists that either have 2-3 other experienced friends or are in a pve guild

Because ursan opened the gates of high level pve to casual players, on ursan days you could just go doa or where ever you wanted and find a team EASILY

but now you need to be at least a good player

and I hear you: lol ofc you gotta be good there is no place for noobs in utter pve
but just say what have YOU lost because of ursan, Im sure nothin
Ursan made high level pve possible for non experianced players, players with not enough time and commitement, players that dont have many experianced friends or pve guild
Thank god to ursan days I did something I wouldnt EVEN BOTHER without the 6ursan+hb monk way
And so did many people I know

BUT NOW: the only way to do hm fow is to find another friend to dual with heroes and itll take double the time of ursan way which took 50 min only to open the chest. Also now some people gonna say: not double NOOB! Me and my guildie opened chest with 6 hero in 1:5 yayayyay, but you lost 1 hour also discussing about your builds

Ursan let casual people in difficulty:master missions no matter what you say
and I feel happy for people that had ursan in the ursan days and did the high level pve when possible and I pity for casual people because they probably never will play those areas because of the lack of ursan

Tyla · Nov 04, 2008, 07:04 PM // 19:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Destro Maniak

snip

I find it funny that Upier didn't say he hates Ursan or was for / against the nerf, he said it was overpowered.

Take your whines about Ursan to a Riverside thread (one that is relevent to Ursan), they don't belong in The Campfire.

Super Igor · Nov 04, 2008, 07:24 PM // 19:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

The fact that Ursan teams didn't need prots doesn't make protection bad - it just shows how overpowered Ursan was.
The power of Ursan negated the straight up failure that is just healing.
And that fact that you actually used this as an argument for the strength of healing just shows how bad you are.

Show me were I called protection bad kthx. :>

Also dont me stoopit meanie it suits u badly, I gave the example of ursan to show that when you have a lot of armor/damage reduction or when mobs just dont deal enough damage to you somehow you dont need to worry about srs bsns prot that much, aegis chains for example. Now, how do you achieve such protection? The answer is imbagon or even just SY! make up for all the protection you need and considering that every full human party should have one (and HB is only effective on a human player) its a fair argument no?

Anyway, whats the argument is about, Im kinda missing the point of all the spam tbh. :P

Destro Maniak · Nov 04, 2008, 08:00 PM // 20:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

I find it funny that Upier didn't say he hates Ursan or was for / against the nerf, he said it was overpowered.

Take your whines about Ursan to a Riverside thread (one that is relevent to Ursan), they don't belong in The Campfire.

lol, where I said "snip"

:P

upier · Nov 04, 2008, 09:38 PM // 21:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

Show me were I called protection bad kthx. :>

Also dont me stoopit meanie it suits u badly, I gave the example of ursan to show that when you have a lot of armor/damage reduction or when mobs just dont deal enough damage to you somehow you dont need to worry about srs bsns prot that much, aegis chains for example. Now, how do you achieve such protection? The answer is imbagon or even just SY! make up for all the protection you need and considering that every full human party should have one (and HB is only effective on a human player) its a fair argument no?

Anyway, whats the argument is about, Im kinda missing the point of all the spam tbh. :P

When you aren't running SY!-like defense - then prot is superior to healing.
When you are running SY!-like defense - then healing becomes sufficient. And that in no way changes the fact that prot (hybrids) still works. Reversal will still work very nicely. As does wasting your elite on WoH. While at the same time it still offers a backup if things would happen to go wrong.
It's win-win-win!
Whereas healing is just win when things go as planned.

Why would you opt for the solution that will fail you when you'd need it most?

Super Igor · Nov 04, 2008, 10:49 PM // 22:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

then prot is superior to healing.

Before we carry on, prot is superior to healing in pve? No, if you are talking about full prot bars, no, you need red bars going up and prot doesnt really provide any of that.

Tyla · Nov 04, 2008, 11:01 PM // 23:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

Before we carry on, prot is superior to healing in pve? No, if you are talking about full prot bars, no, you need red bars going up and prot doesnt really provide any of that.

[aura of faith][dismiss condition]

-Lotus- · Nov 04, 2008, 11:14 PM // 23:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

[aura of faith][dismiss condition]

you forgot RoF! and SB and obviously ZB.

upier · Nov 04, 2008, 11:17 PM // 23:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

Before we carry on, prot is superior to healing in pve? No, if you are talking about full prot bars, no, you need red bars going up and prot doesnt really provide any of that.

If I am talking about full-on prot bars - then you are talking about full-on healing bars. With no outside help of course.
Right?

And then we are talking about getting hit for (non-protted) 200+ damage and you are saying that healing is superior.
Right?

Super Igor · Nov 04, 2008, 11:18 PM // 23:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

[aura of faith][dismiss condition]

Oh cmon, 8 sec recharge...WoH and Imbaspirit beat this energy per heal no?

Tyla · Nov 04, 2008, 11:26 PM // 23:26

Well you asked for red bars up.

Destro Maniak · Nov 05, 2008, 05:28 AM // 05:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

[aura of faith][dismiss condition]

aura of faith, most useless skill lol, it+dismiss 3sec (1sec casting times +0.75 sec after cast =3 sec)
It will heal for 200 hp with high prot+dvine favor and 8 sec recahrge
But still zealus benediction will heal for 200 hp, 4 sec recahrge, 10 or 3 energy

AND it is usable by heroes unlike aura of faith, because monks sux
and necros are the only choice, cause I want red bards up

And prot spirit

Super Igor · Nov 05, 2008, 06:23 PM // 18:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

If I am talking about full-on prot bars - then you are talking about full-on healing bars. With no outside help of course.
Right?

Thought we were talking about hybrids and HB, but if this is the case I'd say that both are pretty bad, and full prot bar is worse. Why? Because first of all you dont need a full bar of prots in pve, it would be an overkill, second, even ZB, even RoF dont really provide as much heal as imba-spirit and woh although rof is sexy.

When you have an imbagon in your party and damage is reduced by 87% I see no point going on prot overkill, seriously, damage reduction from your imbagon is enough of a prot.

Generally for a hero I would run this:
[build prof=Mo/E box heal=12+1+1 prot=10+1 div=8+1][WoH][patient spirit][dismiss condition][cure hex][shield of absorption][guardian][optional][glyph of lesser energy][/build]
*prot spirit if you micro, signet of rejuv or rebirth in optional.

Quote:

And then we are talking about getting hit for (non-protted) 200+ damage and you are saying that healing is superior.
Right?

Sure! If uve just been hit for 200+ prot aint going to help much because you need to heal this dmage fast with one big heal (woh/imbaspirit) and prot doesnt really have any good options for that apart from ZB. You actualy proven that heal is more effective in pve and running full prot bars is enefficient, tell me, what do you need to prevent 200+ damage? Prot spirit and that would be it.