Curse

Super Igor · Oct 31, 2008, 04:41 PM // 16:41

HB is good for party wide healing, but tbh, unyielding aura is better.

On a nec I always run wither woh or resto.

Also, wuzzup wit big heals? Shud we run 5 resto magic atts on our N/Rt nao? :O

joshuarodger · Oct 31, 2008, 07:17 PM // 19:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

HB is good for party wide healing, but tbh, unyielding aura is better.

first, they are both bad and encourage bad bars, second the loss of energy regen from UA makes it much worse than HB.

Destro Maniak · Oct 31, 2008, 07:47 PM // 19:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

You just said it was prot in your own post.

By the way, with your logic, RoF isn't prot.

I actually have 580 health discounting weapon mods. Oh, and keep in mind Xinraes' is: cheaper (Yes, Necros have near infinite energy, but it all counts), doesn't rely on an enchantment and casts quicker. Oh, and it deals a bit of damage.

And?

For healing to be effective, you need to be hurt. For prot to be effective, you need to use it before you get hurt, but it's generally stronger.

Actually, that was Lotus.

Xinraes' will leave the little timing spot open for a PSpirit and some spot heals, whereas Heal Other will do... f*** all in contribution to keeping that person alive.

The healing is just a bonus. You really think the usage of RoF is to heal as a priority? That's just a bonus, and at the same time it's what makes it a powerful skill alongside its spammability. And when I say spammability, I'm not saying "spam that shit!", I'm saying that it's ready for use 90% of the time.

rof is one of best skills, I really admire that skill

but when you seriously think over, youll also agree rof is no compare with xinrae

rof: negate 67 damage and heal for 67 damage which results in 134 damage and possible death prevent.
ok maybe

xinrae also prevents possible death but also YOU should agree that it just does nothing good but prevent possible death when so low on hp because the heal benefit is just so little

anyway, the point of the debate disorted by me probably

but still I think that only prot skills are

prot spirit
spirit bond
soa
rof

anything else is an illussion of protect

-Lotus- · Oct 31, 2008, 08:23 PM // 20:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Destro Maniak

rof is one of best skills, I really admire that skill

but when you seriously think over, youll also agree rof is no compare with xinrae

rof: negate 67 damage and heal for 67 damage which results in 134 damage and possible death prevent.
ok maybe

xinrae also prevents possible death but also YOU should agree that it just does nothing good but prevent possible death when so low on hp because the heal benefit is just so little

they both work great. RoF works better, but it's probably the best skill in the game, no surprise. either way, if a target is about to die you aren't going to just use RoF/XW. the skill is simply a quick, small prot to buy you enough time to use your power heal.

Quote:

anyway, the point of the debate disorted by me probably

but still I think that only prot skills are

prot spirit
spirit bond
soa
rof

anything else is an illussion of protect

see, the thing about words is that they have definitions... you don't get to just make them up as you go.

joshuarodger · Oct 31, 2008, 08:44 PM // 20:44

to protect - to defend or guard from attack, invasion, loss, annoyance, insult, etc.; cover or shield from injury or danger.

that just about sums up most skills from the protection prayers line. guardian and aegis definitely go there. in fact, skills like RC and DH are the skills that don't fit the dictionary definition of protection. just about every skill in the prot prayers line can find a way to fit into this definition. i hope that dispelled your "illusions of protect"

Tyla · Oct 31, 2008, 09:25 PM // 21:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Destro Maniak

snip

Sorry, but stop being an idiot. If SoA is prot to you, why isn't Shielding Hands? Union? What about Shelter, which is like a Spirit version of PSpirit? A protection skill limits the amount of damage that can go through on usage. No matter how strong the prot is, or whether the skill heals or not, it is still based on protecting if it does anything to prevent damage while targetting a party member. I've never said "XW > RoF" once in any of my posts from memory, and now you bring it up... I'd take Xinraes' over RoF, but only when I'm utilising Restoration, otherwise I'd go full prot or spec into Healing for WoH because you've got more versatile protection skills in that skill line.

Jeydra · Oct 31, 2008, 09:44 PM // 21:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

The reason HB is used in HA is because you've got alot of degeneration pressure that which bypasses you. That, and with even two prots, having two other teams in halls means alot might pass through your protection, for example; the altar. Oh, and there's also the N/A gimmick that plagues HA which bypasses all protection, so the only way round it is to heal, heal and heal.

Yes - so there're times when you want HB. HB does one thing far superior to any other build, that's party-wide healing. It also heals better when the other team can't be protted. I think bashing HB as "just bad" is wrong. There are times when it's good and when you want it.

@joshuarodger - I don't know what to call RC, but I don't think it's a full-out healing spell. You can't use it on yourself and it's conditional. Against stuff like the N/A teams having RC is useless most of the time. RoF isn't a heal either, you have to take damage before it works and you can't use it to get red bars up. Same applies to Spirit Bond.

Oh and most teams that use Monks bring HB in HA, so I won't say there're 'very few' times when you want it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Lotus-

those builds suck. I don't care if people are using them in HA/GvG, check out the winning teams... hybrids

If you insist ...

September mAT GvG finals: Whats Going On [sup] vs. The Cape Is A Lie [Trim].

http://www.guildwars.com/competitive...ls.php?lang=en

On the [sup] side ...

Mo/W20 Sup Never Dead (6)
Guardian
Restore Condition
Reversal of Fortune
Holy Veil
Sprint
Disciplined Stance
Aura of Stability
Spirit Bond

On the [Trim] side ...

Mo/E20 A S H P D (6)
Glyph of Lesser Energy
Guardian
Restore Condition
Reversal of Fortune
Holy Veil
Aura of Stability
Aegis
Spirit Bond

Neither bar has a heal of any kind other than the conditional heal RC, A S H P D's bar is even exactly the same as the bar I wrote down above (which sucks, as you wrote above). Therefore both guilds suck and deserve to lose right? Right?

Mr Emu · Oct 31, 2008, 09:56 PM // 21:56

I'm pretty sure lotus was talking about the HB bar
you can feel free to post the other monks for both teams if you're so damn confident in your argument

joshuarodger · Oct 31, 2008, 11:17 PM // 23:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

@joshuarodger - I don't know what to call RC, but I don't think it's a full-out healing spell. You can't use it on yourself and it's conditional. Against stuff like the N/A teams having RC is useless most of the time. RoF isn't a heal either, you have to take damage before it works and you can't use it to get red bars up. Same applies to Spirit Bond.

well, if you'll go back and check what i wrote, i never called RoF or SB a heal. i simply said that they heal. i was simply pointing out why it's more acceptable to go all Prot Prayers. it's because the skills in that line also involve healing your target. i never said you can use them to get your red bars up, but if the condition is met, the red bars do go up. stop trying to twist my words in order to formulate a weak argument.

i also never said that RC was a full-out healing spell, even though it pretty much is. you won't be using it unless the condition is met, at which point it heals for a ton. by that logic, dwayna's kiss, healing seed, words of comfort, vig spirit, and cure hex shouldn't be considered heals either since a condition has to be met in order for them to heal enough to "get red bars up". if RC isn't a heal because you can't self target, what about gift of health, heal other, jamei's gaze, infuse, dwayna's kiss again, healing seed again, and even WoH before the buff?

as i said before, just because it's in Prot Prayers, doesn't make it purely a prot skill, i.e. damage reduction/prevention, which is why it's more acceptale to use an all prot bar.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

Oh and most teams that use Monks bring HB in HA, so I won't say there're 'very few' times when you want it.

please go back and read my post again. if you're going to try and argue with me, at least have an idea about what i said. i specifically said "for general PvE". this is campfire. that means PvE. if you want to argue PvP, go to Glad's Arena.

Super Igor · Oct 31, 2008, 11:47 PM // 23:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshuarodger

first, they are both bad and encourage bad bars, second the loss of energy regen from UA makes it much worse than HB.

Mmm, no not really, worse than N/Mo-Rt energy-wise but still good healers, I like UA better because it has cheaper party wide heals and has really good ressing effect (0 sec cast rezzing anyone?

) so no, Im not encouraging bad bars. Besides, I'd say big and cheap heals is only what you need for pve to keep you alive rest is pretty much optional, just gives you a wider margin of error for example prot spirit or weapon of warding or whatever.

Jeydra · Nov 01, 2008, 12:23 AM // 00:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Emu

I'm pretty sure lotus was talking about the HB bar
you can feel free to post the other monks for both teams if you're so damn confident in your argument

-Lotus- said the bars sucked and that teams that win don't run them, so there you are.

@joshuarodger - I wasn't going to argue with you, but if you want an argument, I don't mind giving you one. Yes or no?

Super Igor · Nov 01, 2008, 12:29 AM // 00:29

Stop catfighting ffs!

joshuarodger · Nov 01, 2008, 12:46 AM // 00:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

@joshuarodger - I wasn't going to argue with you, but if you want an argument, I don't mind giving you one. Yes or no?

an argument, no. i don't want to start something that could get either of us banned. if you've got counter points, i'll be happy to read and rebut them in the form of a civilized discussion. i was probably a bit "catty", as igor put it, in that last post. sorry for that. but as i said, i'll be more than happy to discuss the merits of prot vs. heal.

Destro Maniak · Nov 01, 2008, 08:30 AM // 08:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

Yes - so there're times when you want HB. HB does one thing far superior to any other build, that's party-wide healing. It also heals better when the other team can't be protted. I think bashing HB as "just bad" is wrong. There are times when it's good and when you want it.

@joshuarodger - I don't know what to call RC, but I don't think it's a full-out healing spell. You can't use it on yourself and it's conditional. Against stuff like the N/A teams having RC is useless most of the time. RoF isn't a heal either, you have to take damage before it works and you can't use it to get red bars up. Same applies to Spirit Bond.

Oh and most teams that use Monks bring HB in HA, so I won't say there're 'very few' times when you want it.

If you insist ...

September mAT GvG finals: Whats Going On [sup] vs. The Cape Is A Lie [Trim].

http://www.guildwars.com/competitive...ls.php?lang=en

On the [sup] side ...

Mo/W20 Sup Never Dead (6)
Guardian
Restore Condition
Reversal of Fortune
Holy Veil
Sprint
Disciplined Stance
Aura of Stability
Spirit Bond

On the [Trim] side ...

Mo/E20 A S H P D (6)
Glyph of Lesser Energy
Guardian
Restore Condition
Reversal of Fortune
Holy Veil
Aura of Stability
Aegis
Spirit Bond

Neither bar has a heal of any kind other than the conditional heal RC, A S H P D's bar is even exactly the same as the bar I wrote down above (which sucks, as you wrote above). Therefore both guilds suck and deserve to lose right? Right?

IF you talk about gvg or ha

Mo/me
[channeling]
[orison of healing]

best build
(seriously you need channeling in ha, any other sec prof is LOSER)

Super Igor · Nov 01, 2008, 11:11 AM // 11:11

Why orison of healing? Isnt imba-spirit like, more imba or something?

Destro Maniak · Nov 01, 2008, 04:09 PM // 16:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

Why orison of healing? Isnt imba-spirit like, more imba or something?

dude ofc not orison of heal
it is not a great skill (although for monk primaries with hb it becomes a considerable skills)

but it was just to imply that with channeling every skill becomes super :P

Super Igor · Nov 01, 2008, 04:45 PM // 16:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Destro Maniak

but it was just to imply that with channeling every skill becomes super :P

Even mending? :P

Destro Maniak · Nov 01, 2008, 05:24 PM // 17:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

Even mending? :P

channelign isnt "nuff for mending to be ok

it gotta be

channeling+arcane echo+echo+mending

-Lotus- · Nov 01, 2008, 07:20 PM // 19:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

Yes - so there're times when you want HB. HB does one thing far superior to any other build, that's party-wide healing. It also heals better when the other team can't be protted. I think bashing HB as "just bad" is wrong. There are times when it's good and when you want it.

HB is unessicary. unessicary=wasted elite.
you don't need to boost the power of heals, most of them heal plenty already. HB also promotes bars packed with straight heals, which is just redundant. I would much rather have a bar with WoH and a bunch or optional slots that you could use for utility (or prot, duh). there really arent any occasions where pure healing shines.

Destro Maniak · Nov 01, 2008, 10:50 PM // 22:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Lotus-

HB is unessicary. unessicary=wasted elite.
you don't need to boost the power of heals, most of them heal plenty already. HB also promotes bars packed with straight heals, which is just redundant. I would much rather have a bar with WoH and a bunch or optional slots that you could use for utility (or prot, duh). there really arent any occasions where pure healing shines.

okay maybe 3 hb is far more than neccecary

But you atleast need ATLEAST 1 hb in a 3monk in 8 man area
Because spam aegis, rof, prot spirit, spirit bond WHATEVA in an area you will allways need a heal

And a single hb can provide that

What I choose is (when I dual with a friend)
OANDYcPPPVVO9MpecX1iBE0I = Protter
OANCYczUVVclHBYkD4HhRDaE = HB
and another heal/prot hero or just simple boosted SS or SV or MM or another hero to get few heal and prot spirit

I KNOW; FOR SURE that simple taking a hb wont be as efficent as taking a hb and protective spirit
But beleive me simple bringing a protector without 100 hp every 3 sec pary wide, 225 hp every sec to single ally, 40 hp everytime minion dies
Without them you still wont be as good with your protector

And please dont say N/Rit does both because N/rit doesnt have protective sprit

Only prot that N/rit has
Xinrae
WoW

Now Xinrae is better than prot spirit, for somethin like half a sec, but after that half a sec you would prefer prot spirit, for sure

And WoW: Its unstripable guardian? It is. Is it better than protective spirit and a SUPA STRONG heal, I dont agree that<<<

You might say: You can take a spirit bond hero and a N/rit, so N/rit will be much better

My answer would be: Than Pull of2 pnt form heal 2 from soul reap and put in prot and then replace jamei/heal other with prot spirit
That also would be heal/prot

I still dont get what we debate over

And you arent as carefull enough tou spot my builds god damn weakness
If you talked about that REALLY big weakness of the build I would be much more worser than that "omfg prot" debate

The weakness is that HB:Jamei/heal Other doesnt have any self heal other than heal party

But as I bring two of them (when a friend is with me) 2 hb monk and a hero with prot spirit is prety much able to hold up for anything infinitely (as long as energy drain that will overwhelm soul reap)