Curse

Daesu · Nov 09, 2008, 04:21 AM // 04:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masao

There's still pretty much 0 reason to bother with Discordway on a Warrior or Paragon. Racway is far superior because what it lacks in rate of kill it makes up for with near invincibility and fairly high damage output with condition spreading.

Lacks in rate of kill? With Discordway, a paragon-discordway team can have the near invincibility, high damage, and unlimited energy to heal, prot, and remove hexes+conditions. Yes, a paragon can be made to synergize with necros, welcome to the post-buff era.

I find it interesting how some people still hold on tightly to pre-buff, not updated for the past 6 months, old builds with their dear lives. The builds work great at their time, but it is time to move on to more optimal builds with all the skill updates since then.

MercenaryKnight · Nov 09, 2008, 04:54 AM // 04:54

Asuran scan is 1 possibility for physicals. Warriors could go a sword condition build or what not. Paragons have barbed spear.

But assassin's promise works on any character. The ability to always have 2 knock downs, ymlad and timing sin can do just as good as bringing physical damage and leaving them on their feet.

If your lazy, load up assassin's promise and you move like a dwarf on physicals and you can get through most of it easily. I use it on my paragon only if I don't need save yourselves.

But yes, don't trust the pvx wiki version. It sucks, you should make a curse hero bring enfeebling blood and suffering/ shadow of fear. If you get a friend, run 6 discord heroes, 2 rits, 2 minion bombers, 1-2 curse hybrids.

daze · Nov 09, 2008, 07:46 AM // 07:46

The reason Discordway is soo popular is because of its versatility. Basically there are only 2 skills which should be stapled to every heros bar:[discord] and [signet of lost souls]

this is kinda what my heroes look like (im not at home so its not exact.)

[[email protected]][signet of lost [email protected]][enfeebling [email protected]][[email protected]][mend body and [email protected]][protective was [email protected]][[email protected]][death pact [email protected]]

[[email protected]][signet of lost [email protected]][rip [email protected]][ulcerous [email protected]][mend body and [email protected]][protective was [email protected]][spirit [email protected]][flesh of my [email protected]]

[[email protected]][signet of lost [email protected]][animate bone [email protected]][death nova][dwaynas [email protected]][feast for the [email protected]][spotless [email protected]][renew [email protected]]

that is what i would bring if i just used 3 heroes. but when i vanquish i use 2 computers with 2 accounts so i run 6 hero discord which is fatal.

but the most important thing is targeting and the fastest way to do it is to press <CTRL><SHIFT><SPACEBAR> or you can do just <CTRL><SPACEBAR>

this is what i do

I cast [assassins promise] then hold <CTRL> and cast [you move like a dwarf] that covers the hex and the condition.

id post my 6 hero build but we arent allowed that many skill posts anymore,

Masao · Nov 09, 2008, 08:45 AM // 08:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

Lacks in rate of kill? With Discordway, a paragon-discordway team can have the near invincibility, high damage, and unlimited energy to heal, prot, and remove hexes+conditions. Yes, a paragon can be made to synergize with necros, welcome to the post-buff era.

I find it interesting how some people still hold on tightly to pre-buff, not updated for the past 6 months, old builds with their dear lives. The builds work great at their time, but it is time to move on to more optimal builds with all the skill updates since then.

And just because a skill gets buffed doesn't mean it should be used on heroes for every class of character.

I didn't even use Racway until about a month ago, and both it and Sabway are far superior to any Discord build that you could roll on a Warrior or Paragon's heroes.

A Paragon can make up for e-management, sure, but an Imbagon running Racway clears just as fast since you can devote henches or your partner's heroes to damage dealing rather than healing/protting, while keeping a high damage output on your own heroes.

Warriors, on the other hand, simply can't run Discordway effectively.

Running any Discordway build effectively requires a human player to bind skills, prep and call targets. Leaving prep work up to heroes is just a bad idea.

@daze: Heroes don't use Dwayna's properly the majority of the time. And BotM on a bomber? Feast for the Dead is superior.

daze · Nov 09, 2008, 09:43 AM // 09:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masao

@daze: Heroes don't use Dwayna's properly the majority of the time. And BotM on a bomber? Feast for the Dead is superior.

It works well for me, but maybe its just the fact that i use 6 heroes. this is my 6 hero build. I see what you mean for feast for the dead, it would be better on a bomber build.

[[email protected]][signet of lost [email protected]][death [email protected]][mend body and [email protected]][protective was [email protected]][[email protected]][spirit [email protected]][death pact [email protected]] <<Livia Death 12+1+1... Soul reaping 9+1... Restoration 10
[[email protected]][signet of lost [email protected]][putrid [email protected]][mend body and [email protected]][protective was [email protected]][[email protected]][spirit [email protected]][flesh of my [email protected]] Whispers Death 12+1+1... Soul reaping 9+1... Restoration 10
[jagged [email protected]][signet of lost [email protected]][animate bone [email protected]][death [email protected]][feast for the [email protected]][infuse [email protected]][dark [email protected]][blood [email protected]] <<< olias Death 11+1+3... Soul reaping 9+1... Blood magic 9+1 ??? im not sure the exact specs
[[email protected]][signet of lost [email protected]][spotless [email protected]][spotless [email protected]][dwaynas [email protected]][signet of [email protected]][cure [email protected]][renew [email protected]] Livia #2 Death 11+1+2... Soul reap 9+1... heal 10
[[email protected]][signet of lost [email protected]][animate shambling [email protected]][[email protected]][protective [email protected]][reversal of [email protected]][shielding [email protected]][[email protected]] Death 11+1+2... Soul reap 9+1... Prot 10
[[email protected]][signet of lost [email protected]][enfeebling [email protected]][[email protected]][weaken [email protected]][mark of [email protected]][[email protected]][rip [email protected]] Whispers #2 Death 12+1+1... Soul reap 9+1...Curse 9+1...

Now i may be off by a point or two with the attributes. Im not at home right now so i cant check.

This is the build that i use to call targets is
[deadly paradox @12][enduring [email protected]][mark of [email protected]][pain inverter][assassins [email protected]][you move like a dwarf][finish him][sadists [email protected]] << Energy storage 12+1+1... Deadly arts 12

Basically i enter the map with a party of 8, then if i feel like it i may multitask 2 accounts at the same time, but most of the time i just map out with the 2nd account so the 3 heros just follow me.. I can vanquish any areas easily with a team of 7 though.

jackerduud · Nov 09, 2008, 12:40 PM // 12:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masao

With Discordway you're basically forced to go /N or /Me to get a low energy requirement hex.

Asuran Scan. 5e, quite spammable, duration is enough to do 2 Discord Spikes.

I can spam both conds and Asuran Scan as fast as the Discord heros can kill.
I'm a ranger btw, so I run either R/D Wounding Strike scytheranger or Burning Arrow. Burning arrow + Asuran Scan (@ rank 6) has also hit over 100 on Caster HM mobs, not to mention NM stuff. Asuran will also beef up a Scythewarrior, DragonSlasher or any random physical DPS class/build.

Super Igor · Nov 09, 2008, 06:56 PM // 18:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbobusa

You're using the PvX build. That's why

Stop being bad turbo, things you run never work either.

If he has the ap build, the pvx discordway should work fine so this guy is either trolling or failed somewere.

Quote:

Originally Posted by daze

[[email protected]][signet of lost [email protected]][death [email protected]][mend body and [email protected]][protective was [email protected]][[email protected]][spirit [email protected]][death pact [email protected]] <<Livia Death 12+1+1... Soul reaping 9+1... Restoration 10
[[email protected]][signet of lost [email protected]][putrid [email protected]][mend body and [email protected]][protective was [email protected]][[email protected]][spirit [email protected]][flesh of my [email protected]] Whispers Death 12+1+1... Soul reaping 9+1... Restoration 10
[jagged [email protected]][signet of lost [email protected]][animate bone [email protected]][death [email protected]][feast for the [email protected]][infuse [email protected]][withering [email protected]][blood [email protected]] <<< olias Death 11+1+3... Soul reaping 9+1... Blood magic 9+1 ??? im not sure the exact specs
[[email protected]][signet of lost souls@10][spotless mind@10][spotless soul@10][dwaynas sorrow@10][signet of rejuvenation@10][cure hex@10][renew life@10] Livia #2 Death 11+1+2... Soul reap 9+1... heal 10
[discord@14][signet of lost souls@10][animate shambling horror@14][aegis@10][protective spirit@10][reversal of fortune@10][shielding hands@10][rebirth@10] Death 11+1+2... Soul reap 9+1... Prot 10
[discord@14][signet of lost souls@10][enfeebling blood@10][suffering@10][weaken armor@10][mark of pain@10][meekness@10][rip enchantment@10] Whispers #2 Death 12+1+1... Soul reap 9+1...Curse 9+1...

This is the most horrible 6 hero discordway setup Ive seen...EVER!

Turbobusa · Nov 09, 2008, 09:02 PM // 21:02

lol.
Did I wait 1.5 years to make a discord build? actually no, search my posts, I've been using them with success since then. It didn't take me over a year to figure out a build was good.

I've used lots of discord build, at the beginning very bad ones.I know what's good and what's not on this kind of build.

You're free to say you don't believe me (at which point you might want to use the search feature on my posts to see when I actually started posting discord builds), you're free to say

Saying what I run does not work? lol. You have no idea and while it does not work always (I like to try odd things - my definition of fun, remember, it's a game), when it does not work as much as intended, it doesn't fail, it is just less effective.

Let me say that again: the PvX build is terrible.
You have such an offensive power in your hands and you limit yourself to surviving and killing in between. It's not even a tank build, not a spike build, it's supposed to be pressure, I don't see no pressure in the PvX build.

And when the mod will actually kick you out of the forum for aggressing people in every single thread you post in?

Super Igor · Nov 09, 2008, 10:59 PM // 22:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbobusa

lol.
Did I wait 1.5 years to make a discord build? actually no, search my posts, I've been using them with success since then. It didn't take me over a year to figure out a build was good.

Unfortunately it doesnt work.

Quote:

I've used lots of discord build, at the beginning very bad ones.I know what's good and what's not on this kind of build.

Turns out that you dont.

Quote:

You're free to say you don't believe me (at which point you might want to use the search feature on my posts to see when I actually started posting discord builds), you're free to say

Sure I dont beleive you, you only make two types of posts: one is flaming pvx other is trying to look any good, fail at both. Seriously, posting one dazillion builds doesnt make you good.

Quote:

Saying what I run does not work? lol. You have no idea and while it does not work always (I like to try odd things - my definition of fun, remember, it's a game), when it does not work as much as intended, it doesn't fail, it is just less effective.

Playing bad stuff is not fun, playing stuff that works is fun. If something isnt working as intended you make it work as intended or scrap it.

Quote:

Let me say that again: the PvX build is terrible.
You have such an offensive power in your hands and you limit yourself to surviving and killing in between. It's not even a tank build, not a spike build, it's supposed to be pressure, I don't see no pressure in the PvX build.

How come you dont? Three high specced discords is all you need, big minion wall, good healing, you dont need anything else.

Quote:

And when the mod will actually kick you out of the forum for aggressing people in every single thread you post in?

Why are you attacking me every time? Stop before you get kicked out of the forum.

upier · Nov 09, 2008, 11:38 PM // 23:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

Playing bad stuff is not fun, playing stuff that works is fun. If something isnt working as intended you make it work as intended or scrap it.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10328275

*blows air-kisses towards Supy doopy Iggy*

Super Igor · Nov 09, 2008, 11:46 PM // 23:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10328275

*blows air-kisses towards Supy doopy Iggy*

You made me laugh here, srsly, +1.

Tho, I dont get why are you linking to mah 6 man sabway. =/

daze · Nov 10, 2008, 12:00 AM // 00:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

This is the most horrible 6 hero discordway setup Ive seen...EVER!

Way to go on the criticism. Or wait, it wasnt even a criticism because a criticism may have offered some sort of suggestion or alternative. In fact all that was is a flame.

Apparently i have vanquished all of Elona and all of Tyra with the worst discordway setup you have ever seen. That says a lot about what you know.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10328275

lol at least we both have something in common, this link made both of us laugh. You started a thread with a mediocre build at best and then tried to claim it as your idea. But that is all ill say about that because, A: its off topic and B: i refuse to pour gasoline on your flames.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

[I]"Harder" to run than discordway possibly but if you do it right it can blow up things all at once. Its main disadvantage is that it cant get rid of stuff that has high defense as easily (e.g. healing bosses).

I DEMAND FLAME!

This means that the build is bad, If it is disadvantaged against high defense or multiple monks then it fails. What is wierd is when i use my "horrible" 6 hero discord build i have NO problem against multiple monks, multiple bosses, or high defense. So far your credibility is ZERO

ANd on second thought, don't bother offering any criticism, constructive or otherwise, on my 6 hero discord build. I wont respond anymore to you because it would be like taking Kung Fu advice from my grandmother.

Saraneth · Nov 10, 2008, 05:08 AM // 05:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masao

Drop all copies of Shambling Horrors for Bone Minions.

Faster recharging minion spells lead to more time spent by the heroes on 2-3 sec casts when they could be using discord or support prots/heals. The minion wall created by d-spike is not a primary function.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masao

Why would you even consider using Discord with purely physical classes who have only 2 e-regen?

A warrior's endurance scythe war is not restricted by "2 e-regen." It can handle a bar with a 10e skill or two.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masao

There's still pretty much 0 reason to bother with Discordway on a Warrior or Paragon. Racway is far superior because what it lacks in rate of kill it makes up for with near invincibility and fairly high damage output with condition spreading.

Add in the fact Warriors and Paras just can't deal with the hex/conditions spamming requirements of Discordway, and you have even less reason to bother with using Discord heroes.

Sabway is also superior for a physical class than Discordway since the player can roll whatever they want; a Para can go imba, a Warrior can go W/P for SY spam, and in both cases damage output is maximized through Splinter. With Discordway you're basically forced to go /N or /Me to get a low energy requirement hex to satisfy the conditions to cast Discord, otherwise you're leaving the prepping and spiking up to your heroes, and we all know how bad hero AI is.

There's nothing stopping you from running SY on a war or Imbagon on a para while using discord heroes. People have even used similar setups in DoA with success. - http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10321473 Btw, they didn't always run with an EC nec.

Warriors and paragons don't need to provide all of the hexes and conditions. Heroes can and will handle the condition/hex requirements of discord well on their own. Placing skills like withering aura on one of the hero bars helps since they allow players some control over the condition spread. Furthermore, asura scan is a readily spammable hex that phys players may use to increase the viability of running d-spike.

Sabway is superior to discord, eh? Since when were paragon heroes backed by soul reaping and able to deal xxx armor/block ignoring damage in unison? Also, what's preventing you from putting splinter wep on one of the discord bars? If I'm running d-spike heroes on a phys, I'll usually have splinter on one of the heroes anyways. You don't have to leave all of the spiking up to the heroes either; you can still call targets and use binded keys on a phys class same as a N/A or Me/A.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masao

And just because a skill gets buffed doesn't mean it should be used on heroes for every class of character.

This may seem abrasive, but who are you to dictate what players should or shouldn't run on any given character? It's alrdy been proven that d-spike can be made to operate as a unit independent of what the player is running. We are agreed that some variations work better than others, however.

Turbobusa · Nov 10, 2008, 05:17 AM // 05:17

[QUOTE=Super Igor]Unfortunately it doesnt work.[quote]
Ever played with me? Generally people ask for my build right after playing with them.
But for sure you are better than everyone else and already know every single combination by heart, have played them all, and you know what every player runs.
You must be pro, mind if I just look at you dreaming I can be like you one day?

Quote:

Sure I dont beleive you, you only make two types of posts: one is flaming pvx other is trying to look any good, fail at both. Seriously, posting one dazillion builds doesnt make you good.

Actually I'm nearly always criticizing the PvX discord build.
But since you only care about half a post (the other being words too complicated for your young age I guess), you must have missed that.

Quote:

Playing bad stuff is not fun, playing stuff that works is fun. If something isnt working as intended you make it work as intended or scrap it.

That's your opinion. Sometimes stuff don't work because the skills are just too ineffective in most situations.
Take Soul Bind, it's not a bad skill, and yet it sucks in PvE.

Quote:

How come you dont? Three high specced discords is all you need, big minion wall, good healing, you dont need anything else.

The difference between my versions of discord teams and the PvX one:
I specced the AI for what it can do in between discord. When I switch targets, most of the time they're already hexed and/or conditionned.
But I understand you, why would take more skills to kill and less to heal?
Because you don't need the extra healing for 90% of the game.

And TBH if I get kicked while you stay, I will have no regret not coming to guru.

daze · Nov 10, 2008, 05:52 AM // 05:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbobusa

Actually I'm nearly always criticizing the PvX discord build.
But since you only care about half a post (the other being words too complicated for your young age I guess), you must have missed that.

With good reason too, the PvX Discord build should be called minionway or something like that.. It uses far too many minions and as previously stated, heroes could be spending their time casting more helpful spells than animate minion. IMHO 20 minions is more than enough to effectively body block any area and provide a cushion for over aggroing. Any more than 20 minions on a team is a gimmick.

it has also been said before that MOST PvX builds are basic mediocre builds(which they are). EVERYONE of the PvX builds can be improved upon. PvX builds are made so that you should be able to repeatedly faceplant your keyboard and still kill enemies. (kinda like Ursan) except that Ursan was too effective and pvxwiki is more for the "special guy" who is too lazy/dim to create his own build.

PVX Wiki users:

I revised by set up a bit after going home and seeing exactly what i had. I changed out [[withering aura] for [[dark bond] because i use a team of casters, not melee. And i added the alternate to the condition/hex remover because not all areas are heavy with conditions or hexes.
[discord@14][signet of lost souls@10][death nova@14][mend body and soul@10][protective was kaolai@10][rejuvenation@10][spirit light@10][death pact signet@10]
[discord@14][signet of lost souls@10][putrid bile@14][mend body and soul@10][protective was kaolai@10][recuperation@10][spirit light@10][flesh of my flesh@10]
[jagged bones@15][signet of lost souls@10][animate bone minions@16][death nova@15][feast for the dead@15][infuse condition@15][dark bond@10][blood ritual@10]
[discord@14][signet of lost souls@10][spotless mind@10][spotless soul@10][dwaynas sorrow@10][signet of rejuvenation@10][cure hex@10][renew life@10]---[discord@14][signet of lost souls@10][vile miasma@14][mend body and soul@10][protective was kaolai@10][life@10][spirit light@10][death pact signet@10]
[discord@14][signet of lost souls@10][animate shambling horror@14][aegis@10][protective spirit@10][reversal of fortune@10][shielding hands@10][rebirth@10]
[discord@14][signet of lost souls@10][enfeebling blood@10][suffering@10][weaken armor@10][mark of pain@10][meekness@10][rip enchantment@10]

Daesu · Nov 10, 2008, 07:45 AM // 07:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masao

And just because a skill gets buffed doesn't mean it should be used on heroes for every class of character.

I didn't even use Racway until about a month ago, and both it and Sabway are far superior to any Discord build that you could roll on a Warrior or Paragon's heroes.

A Paragon can make up for e-management, sure, but an Imbagon running Racway clears just as fast since you can devote henches or your partner's heroes to damage dealing rather than healing/protting, while keeping a high damage output on your own heroes.

Warriors, on the other hand, simply can't run Discordway effectively.

Running any Discordway build effectively requires a human player to bind skills, prep and call targets. Leaving prep work up to heroes is just a bad idea.

@daze: Heroes don't use Dwayna's properly the majority of the time. And BotM on a bomber? Feast for the Dead is superior.

Now I am sure you are living in the past. The AI has been fixed a few months ago so heroes cast Dwayna's Sorrow properly now, not to mention the fact that DS is an AoE enchant so it is pretty hard to mess it up.

Warriors and Paragons can run discordway if you set the team up right. Racway has its issues with blocking, Aegis, mass conditions and hexes. Even Racthoh, the person who created Racway, admitted to these issues with Racway. I suggest that you read the recent posts made by him before you reply.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

Discordway is going to be the better choice on the basis that Soul Reaping probably won't be changed ever again and the odds of PvE skills getting nerfed are just as slim.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...5&postcount=25

When was the last time you played this game? Your concepts are terribly outdated.

Super Igor · Nov 10, 2008, 03:52 PM // 15:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by daze

snip
[discord@14][signet of lost souls@10][death nova@14][mend body and soul@10][protective was kaolai@10][rejuvenation@10][spirit light@10][death pact signet@10]
[discord@14][signet of lost souls@10][putrid bile@14][mend body and soul@10][protective was kaolai@10][recuperation@10][spirit light@10][flesh of my flesh@10]
[jagged bones@15][signet of lost souls@10][animate bone minions@16][death nova@15][feast for the dead@15][infuse condition@15][dark bond@10][blood ritual@10]
[discord@14][signet of lost souls@10][spotless mind@10][spotless soul@10][dwaynas sorrow@10][signet of rejuvenation@10][cure hex@10][renew life@10]---[discord@14][signet of lost souls@10][vile miasma@14][mend body and soul@10][protective was kaolai@10][life@10][spirit light@10][death pact signet@10]
[discord@14][signet of lost souls@10][animate shambling horror@14][aegis@10][protective spirit@10][reversal of fortune@10][shielding hands@10][rebirth@10]
[discord@14][signet of lost souls@10][enfeebling blood@10][suffering@10][weaken armor@10][mark of pain@10][meekness@10][rip enchantment@10]

So you are flaming pvxwiki for having bad pve builds posting crap like this at the same time? Bit of contradiction here. Know what, learn how this game works, learn what skills can be called effective, play some good builds and stop flaming a site just because your cripshot touch ranger got trashed.

Super Igor · Nov 10, 2008, 05:00 PM // 17:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by daze

Way to go on the criticism. Or wait, it wasnt even a criticism because a criticism may have offered some sort of suggestion or alternative. In fact all that was is a flame.

Code wasnt wroking, so first post was all but a link to pvx and fame goes to me and my friend with whom I did the tweaking, got it? Mix guru scrubs with pvx and ask for fame to get some fireworks.

Quote:

Apparently i have vanquished all of Elona and all of Tyra with the worst discordway setup you have ever seen. That says a lot about what you know.

Apparently you can vanquish an area with an empty skill bar so vanquishing this much doesnt make your build any good. It only shows how much of a bad player you are vanquishing two campaigns without realising that what you run is crap.

Want an example? Kk, [blood ritual] in a full necro party, what a logic, pouring mor water on a drowning person or better, [infuse condition] with no [foul feast] lol ect. ect. ect.

Quote:

lol at least we both have something in common, this link made both of us laugh. You started a thread with a mediocre build at best and then tried to claim it as your idea. But that is all ill say about that because, A: its off topic and B: i refuse to pour gasoline on your flames.

Flaming? Im not flaming, just giving you a clue to look at your build so that you might find out why it is crap yourself.

Quote:

This means that the build is bad, If it is disadvantaged against high defense or multiple monks then it fails. What is wierd is when i use my "horrible" 6 hero discord build i have NO problem against multiple monks, multiple bosses, or high defense. So far your credibility is ZERO

No, that means that you changed a quote, it has I demand fame there. And the bold bit suggests that you stop talking about cred ups. :>
Doubt that any defense a mob can have will stand against pressure that setup can do.

Quote:

ANd on second thought, don't bother offering any criticism, constructive or otherwise, on my 6 hero discord build. I wont respond anymore to you because it would be like taking Kung Fu advice from my grandmother.

Neither do you tbh but I guess you will never figur out whats wrong so...
-Two copies of death nova, one is enough, you dont need another one particularly when not wanting to have many minions, keep the one on your bomber and call it a day, you aint going to rely much on bombing anyway and give your resto some weapon of warding.
-Rejuv, with 8 guys + minions under 100% hp it will die in mere seconds, not worth the 10 energy and 30 recharge, scrap it and replace with life for uber party wide healage and mbas food (also effects minions).
-Recup, it depends if you are gonna run foul feast + infuse condition or not, if you are (and you probably are) keep it, if you are not, replace with recovery.
-Bomber is awful, first get rid of jagged ur not going to bomb much so no need to give them more distractions, energy would be fine knowing you kill so fast, replace with discord to kill even faster. Use minor runes for more health too imo. Scrap dark bond, its horrible, get foul feast, scrap blood ritual, because its awful and knowing that your energy is vertually unlimited even more horrible in this setup, replace with another putrid bile so you deal some aoe dommage more often.
-Heal, not really good, first of all you cant get rid of ds so you can get rid of this n/mo, because as long as you have minions that can die it proves to be an ossum fail preventer when aggroing a huge mob with aoe stuff and great party wide heal, what you shud do is get rid of siggy because you have enuff healing and get rid of spotless soul because you have enough condition removal, also get rid of renew life because you have enough party wide heal and touch ranged rez is horrible. Give it putrid bile for even moar aoe dommages, rotting flesh for moar conditions and keep miasma maybe, tis pretty nice no matter the recharge, or you can give it heal party to fight high pressure (just spam it on recharge if you get pressured highly/overaggro with no energy limit its ossum) convert hexes for moar hex removal or even some points in prot and aegis for some aegis chains.
-Prot, well nothing to say untill I get to rof...get rid of it and give it soa because its an aweasome counter against any physical mob, they like to focus on one target charging soa real nicely and get convert hexes, good for removing stacks of hexes, I dont like rebirth too because its that post wipe rez...which is quite a flawed purpose but some people like so keep it as long as you disable it mid battle.
-Curses...two skills, meekness and mop. Meekness is horrid, only thing that makes it better than shadow of fear is bigger effect range but its not worth the health sac, higher energy cost and higher recharge time so get shadow of fear. Idea of mop is horrid too, 20 recharge when things fall like ten times faster is a logic fail, get barbs to feed melee and minions with more dommage or get unculciousblahblahblah cant spell the name but you get what Im talking about, another aoe hex. Oh and consider making rip enchie optional because you need it only if theres prot spirit in the area, make it a res instead and maybe chuck it in slot 5 if you want it so badly, more use than barbs anyway.

[discord@14][signet of lost souls@10][weapon of warding@10][mend body and soul@10][protective was kaolai@10][life@10][spirit light@10][death pact signet@10]
[discord@14][signet of lost souls@10][putrid bile@14][mend body and soul@10][protective was kaolai@10][recuperation@10][spirit light@10][flesh of my flesh@10]
[discord@14][signet of lost souls@10][putrid bile@14][animate bone minions@14][death nova@14][feast for the dead@14][infuse condition@14][foul feast@10]
[discord@14][signet of lost souls@10][animate shambling horror@14][putrid bile@14][rotting flesh@14][spotless mind@10][dwaynas sorrow@10][cure hex@10]
[discord@14][signet of lost souls@10][animate shambling horror@14][aegis@10][protective spirit@10][shield of absorption@10][convert hexes@10][rebirth@10]
[discord@14][signet of lost souls@10][enfeebling blood@10][weaken armor@10][suffering@10][shadow of fear@10][rip enchantment@10][death pact signet@2]/[barbs@10]

Now if you say that this aint constructive I will stalkez u!

daze · Nov 10, 2008, 08:19 PM // 20:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

Want an example? Kk, [blood ritual] in a full necro party, what a logic, pouring mor water on a drowning person or better, [infuse condition] with no [foul feast] lol ect. ect. ect.

Ok first off, blood ritual is for me. I keep it disabled, and on the occasion that i may be starting to get low on energy, i cast it on myself. Hardly makes the whole team build bad.
And yes, when i get rid of the hex/condition remover, i do add [[foul feast] to work with [[infuse condition]. But again, that hardly makes the whole build bad.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

"Harder" to run than discordway possibly but if you do it right it can blow up things all at once. Its main disadvantage is that you can't spike down annying stuff as easily (healing bosses) as you can with Dw.

I see you changed your thread around to be worded differently. I think you mean can't and not can. But regardless, wouldnt it be safe to say that since my build has NO trouble with any bosses, multiple bosses, multiple mobs, or multiple monks; that it would be more effective than yours? because when it comes down to it, isnt that the bottom line? Survival and rate of kill?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

Bunch of suggestions

[discord@14][signet of lost souls@10][weapon of warding@10][mend body and soul@10][protective was kaolai@10][life@10][spirit light@10][death pact signet@10]
[discord@14][signet of lost souls@10][putrid bile@14][mend body and soul@10][protective was kaolai@10][recuperation@10][spirit light@10][flesh of my flesh@10]
[discord@14][signet of lost souls@10][putrid bile@14][animate bone minions@14][death nova@14][feast for the dead@14][infuse condition@14][foul feast@10]
[discord@14][signet of lost souls@10][animate shambling horror@14][putrid bile@14][rotting flesh@14][spotless mind@10][dwaynas sorrow@10][cure hex@10]
[discord@14][signet of lost souls@10][animate shambling horror@14][aegis@10][protective spirit@10][shield of absorption@10][convert hexes@10][rebirth@10]
[discord@14][signet of lost souls@10][enfeebling blood@10][weaken armor@10][suffering@10][shadow of fear@10][rip enchantment@10][death pact signet@2]/[barbs@10]

Now if you say that this aint constructive I will stalkez u!

I just wonder why you were incapable of offering constructive criticism from the very beginning. In stead you open with flame throwing and insults. I find it funny that you ask for constructive criticism on your own threads but your first instinct is to call people bad/incompetent players in other threads. Hypocritical much?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

So you are flaming pvxwiki for having bad pve builds posting crap like this at the same time? Bit of contradiction here. Know what, learn how this game works, learn what skills can be called effective, play some good builds and stop flaming a site just because your cripshot touch ranger got trashed.

First off, im not flaming PvX wiki. I think it is a great site for new players who dont know better or dont care to put effort forth to create their own build to go to find a build that just "works". Im saying that there is nothing special for MOST of the PvX builds posted, and MOST of the builds can be improved upon.
I was however making fun of the "OMG PvX builds are sooo LEET" people who think they have found the holy grail because they found a touch ranger. When i started playing, i was tweaking the PvX builds to suit my playstyle. And i still peek at Pvxwiki from time to time to get ideas and see what the hero builds look like. But its all still the same crap, every build has [resurrection signet] stapled to it and they are still just good generic builds. Hardly the cats pajamas.

But none the less, thank you for the advice on the discord team build. I will look it over and the parts that are unbiased, i MAY take into consideration and try it out.

Tyla · Nov 10, 2008, 08:38 PM // 20:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by daze

[discord@14][signet of lost souls@10][death nova@14][mend body and soul@10][protective was kaolai@10][rejuvenation@10][spirit light@10][death pact signet@10]
[discord@14][signet of lost souls@10][putrid bile@14][mend body and soul@10][protective was kaolai@10][recuperation@10][spirit light@10][flesh of my flesh@10]
[jagged bones@15][signet of lost souls@10][animate bone minions@16][death nova@15][feast for the dead@15][infuse condition@15][dark bond@10][blood ritual@10]
[discord@14][signet of lost souls@10][spotless mind@10][spotless soul@10][dwaynas sorrow@10][signet of rejuvenation@10][cure hex@10][renew life@10]---[discord@14][signet of lost souls@10][vile miasma@14][mend body and soul@10][protective was kaolai@10][life@10][spirit light@10][death pact signet@10]
[discord@14][signet of lost souls@10][animate shambling horror@14][aegis@10][protective spirit@10][reversal of fortune@10][shielding hands@10][rebirth@10]
[discord@14][signet of lost souls@10][enfeebling blood@10][suffering@10][weaken armor@10][mark of pain@10][meekness@10][rip enchantment@10]

This'll be funny.

Infuse Condition without Foul Feast is a waste. Even then, the only condition worth removing in PvE half the time is Daze, or in a physically structured team, Weakness and Blind.

Reversal of Fortune won't do much good on heroes.

A sixth Discord > Jagged Bones. You should be generating enough minions anyway.

Vial Miasma is a crap skill in PvE - armour-based damage, degeneration which is negligible... Another copy of Putrid Bile would be more effective, as it is AoE and armour-ignoring.

Blood Ritual? Can't you manage your own energy?

Dark Bond? Do something for your party, bring more prot instead.

You need more Weapon of Shadow and/or Weapon of Warding. Both are incredibly strong skills and not worth missing when it comes to Ritualist bars.

Recouperation isn't really worth it at all.

With all of those minions running around, Rejuvenation will die in like 5 seconds.

SoA > Shielding Hands, moreso in PvE.

If you want a condition removal, Foul Feast > Spotless Soul.

Also, I usually use a copy of Veratas' Gaze on my Necromancers and such for extra, easier minion support with Malign Intervention on some people.