Curse

-Lotus- · Dec 19, 2008, 06:27 PM // 18:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dae GW

it was sooo boring, you don't have to do anything. While i just want to do stuff so i don't get bored. That's why i want a balanced build. It might be hard, but it keeps me from being bored.

PvE monking is either boring or impossible depending on how many healers you bring. thats just how it works... get used to it.

Super Igor · Dec 19, 2008, 11:27 PM // 23:27

Impossible to monk in pve what are you talking about atm monks pwn d-way, sabway, racway and every other hero vanquishing build.

Frozen Was Tara · Jan 07, 2009, 02:31 PM // 14:31

Ignore the people saying "SAB/DISCORD all the way!", they fail.

As monk:

Hero1: Mesmer ~ VoR/Tease
Hero2: AR/Splinter bot or Smiter Monk or MM
Hero3: Elementalist ~ Air/Earth/Water(/Fire) be creative!

Just remember to mod your heroes every time depending on the foes in the areas!

Fire Imps -> Tease wins Rodgort's Spam
Elementalist depending on resistances/weaknesses of the foes.

For the easy areas just do something crazy!

Just think before starting, it's all it takes! Knowledge is power!
Leave the cookiecutters for what they are, GO BEYOND!

Spike Stritter · Jan 14, 2009, 03:05 AM // 03:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frozen Was Tara

Just think before starting, it's all it takes! Knowledge is power!
Leave the cookiecutters for what they are, GO BEYOND!

Agreeed.
before a VQ or dungeon i always check wiki to see what enemies there are and adjust my heroes builds accordingly.
Do that and youll be good.

daze · Jan 14, 2009, 05:10 AM // 05:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

Forget balanced, get three RoJ monks and win pve. Or at least make sure to have one somewhere.

Its just a matter of time before this is called a gimmick build also.
Ive noticed that anytime someone creates a very well balanced team build that works in all areas then gives it a name (like sabway) people will start calling it a gimmick

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frozen Was Tara

Ignore the people saying "SAB/DISCORD all the way!", they fail.

I lol'ed at you saying that sab/discord fails.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spike Stritter

Agreeed.
before a VQ or dungeon i always check wiki to see what enemies there are and adjust my heroes builds accordingly.
Do that and youll be good.

Yep, you can sure do this. Just before you enter an area to vanquish it, check wiki to see what enemies you will be up against. Since there is 136 areas total to vanquish, you will only have to scout monsters 136 times before you enter an area.
Enjoy

Arkantos · Jan 14, 2009, 05:18 AM // 05:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by daze

Its just a matter of time before this is called a gimmick build also.
Ive noticed that anytime someone creates a very well balanced team build that works in all areas then gives it a name (like sabway) people will start calling it a gimmick

I lol'ed at you saying that sab/discord fails.

You're using 3 copies of an AoE skill that enemies don't move out of. How is that not gimmicky? And how is sabway balanced?

Also, I lol'd at you misreading his post. He never said sabway/discord fails, he said sabway/discord fanboys fail.

daze · Jan 14, 2009, 05:30 AM // 05:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

You're using 3 copies of an AoE skill that enemies don't move out of. How is that not gimmicky? And how is sabway balanced?

you might say gimmicky and sure it may even be gimmicky. But that word is so loosely based i could call most commonly used builds gimmicky.
And how is sabway not balanced? really? Sabway has lots of defense, it has utility, and good offensive hexes, and it synergises with everything. But maybe im missing something. You tell me how it is NOT balanced. Just because it takes advantage of the benefits of soul reaping?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Also, I lol'd at you misreading his post. He never said sabway/discord fails, he said sabway/discord fanboys fail.

Oh my bad. sorry i thought it was an ignorance statement, i was wrong though. It was a spite statement.

As long as GW requires me to grind for things, im going to continute to use sab/discordway. the only time i will think outside the box is when i do non-grinding things like dungeons, Urgoz, DoA, FoW with friends.

Daesu · Jan 14, 2009, 05:33 AM // 05:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Also, I lol'd at you misreading his post. He never said sabway/discord fails, he said sabway/discord fanboys fail.

To be more accurate he said people who recommend "SAB/DISCORD all the way!" fail and he did explain what he means on his next paragraph: "Just remember to mod your heroes every time depending on the foes in the areas!"

It is hard to deny that sabway and discordway are generally effective builds but to be more effective, one should customize their heroes to the character's build and to the area. That makes sense to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by daze

And how is sabway not balanced? really? Sabway has lots of defense, it has utility, and good offensive hexes, and it synergises with everything. But maybe im missing something. You tell me how it is NOT balanced. Just because it takes advantage of the benefits of soul reaping?

Sabway has its weaknesses and it doesn't fit ALL possible areas in the game without adapting and a generic 3-heroes build like that can't be the BEST possible build for all characters and areas.

When people ask for a balanced hero team build, they dont mean 3 necros.

daze · Jan 14, 2009, 05:44 AM // 05:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

To be more accurate he said people who recommend "SAB/DISCORD all the way!" fail and he did explain what he means on his next paragraph: "Just remember to mod your heroes every time depending on the foes in the areas!"

It is hard to deny that sabway and discordway are generally effective builds but to be more effective, one should customize their heroes to the character's build and to the area. That makes sense to me.

Sure that makes sense.. Naturally there should be some minor tweaks for any drastic changes of venue on SAB/Discordway, but IMO that is what makes it so versatile. Its easy to tweak/customize and the frame does fit any scenario.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

Sabway has its weaknesses and it doesn't fit ALL possible areas in the game without adapting and a generic 3-heroes build like that can't be the BEST possible build for all characters and areas.

When people ask for a balanced hero team build, they dont mean 3 necros.

So when a person asks for a balanced team build that can be used anywhere the answer should be "There is none"?
Id rather offer a build that is closest to being totally universal since there is no specific build that "Wins Guild Wars"

Daesu · Jan 14, 2009, 05:54 AM // 05:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by daze

So when a person asks for a balanced team build that can be used anywhere the answer should be "There is none"?
Id rather offer a build that is closest to being totally universal since there is no specific build that "Wins Guild Wars"

Then what would you rather have?

A "cookie-cutter" generic heroes team build that can be effective in most places and with most characters or a more powerful heroes team build that is customized to the specific character build, maybe even certain henchies and still be as universal with minor tweaking across most areas?

Taking my dervish as an example, I would rather have an enchantment heavy build for free hp and energy + enchantment benefits than to bring a generic sabway along. How many enchantments does sabway have?

daze · Jan 14, 2009, 06:39 AM // 06:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

Then what would you rather have?

Id rather have discordway for stuff like vanquishing. Just because of the speed at which it dispatches. i have used custom "outside the box" builds and they work for all areas, but honestly when i play with 6 hero discordway, its like the game is on fast forward.

I really dont want to sound pretentious or overly cocky, but i would be so bold as to say that my 6 hero 2 human discord team can be super effective in ALL areas of the game with no more than 5 skill tweaks out of the whole party. Even areas with massive hex/condition removal

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

A "cookie-cutter" generic heroes team build that can be effective in most places and with most characters or a more powerful heroes team build that is customized to the specific character build, maybe even certain henchies and still be as universal with minor tweaking across most areas?

And i always thought this was a good thing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

Taking my dervish as an example, I would rather have an enchantment heavy build for free hp and energy + enchantment benefits than to bring a generic sabway along. How many enchantments does sabway have?

Meh, enchantments really arent that great. They work dont get me wrong, but most of the time they must be applied before you can use your skills and they can be [rip enchantment][rend enchantment].
But i see what you are saying though, when you play on your derv, you like lots of enchantments because you are benefited upon their application and removal. And that is a fair statement.

Daesu · Jan 14, 2009, 07:21 AM // 07:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by daze

I really dont want to sound pretentious or overly cocky, but i would be so bold as to say that my 6 hero 2 human discord team can be super effective in ALL areas of the game with no more than 5 skill tweaks out of the whole party. Even areas with massive hex/condition removal

Just because a hero build works doesn't necessarily imply it is the BEST possible build for ALL character builds and in ALL areas of the game.

Can sabway work with my dervish? Sure, but I can certainly find a more powerful heroes team build that synergizes better with my dervish than sabway. That is not to say sabway sucks, but knowing more parameters (what character build and area) allows me to customize a team build much better than Sab can in her generic build.

Quote:

Meh, enchantments really arent that great. They work dont get me wrong, but most of the time they must be applied before you can use your skills and they can be [rip enchantment][rend enchantment].
But i see what you are saying though, when you play on your derv, you like lots of enchantments because you are benefited upon their application and removal. And that is a fair statement.

Enchantment stripping is usually not a problem for an enchantment heavy team build. Besides, deep enchantment removal is rare in the game and having cheap enchantments cast on my dervish then having them removed actually helps to drive the free health and energy to my dervish.

Generic builds like sabway is convenient for people who are too lazy to customize their builds and want a team build that they dont need to tweak much to work well in most areas. But they are rarely the most effective possible build since these generics attempt to cater to all characters and most areas.

daze · Jan 14, 2009, 07:46 AM // 07:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

Just because a hero build works doesn't necessarily imply it is the BEST possible build for ALL character builds and in ALL areas of the game.

Im not saying that it is the best build for any and all situations. Im just saying that it is the best general build that i have seen thus far. It runs faster and smoother than 90% of PUGs, 99% of tank and spank teams, 50% of decent 8 man teams, and will clear any area with ease.

That is why i have mentioned multiple times that for some areas i do run my own personally build teams. One example is shards of Orr. I run monks and dervs naturally.

Cebe · Jan 14, 2009, 09:05 AM // 09:05

I don't think the point of Guild Wars is that there is "one build to rule them all". If there was such a build any challenge/fun left in the game would dissipate. I can't think of a team build which would not benefit from being tweaked for certain zones. This argument regarding "Discordway's" supremacy is therefore quite hypothetical and fruitless.

daze · Jan 14, 2009, 09:25 AM // 09:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver

I don't think the point of Guild Wars is that there is "one build to rule them all". If there was such a build any challenge/fun left in the game would dissipate. I can't think of a team build which would not benefit from being tweaked for certain zones. This argument regarding "Discordway's" supremacy is therefore quite hypothetical and fruitless.

ya, i didnt mean to go off on a discordway tangent, i was trying to stay on the point that asking for a balanced non gimmick build that can vanquish all areas is not a valid request. And that when going for legendary vanquisher, it may be a better idea to go ahead and run the gimmick build, while saving the original builds for things that are fun and not horribly grindy and boring.

Eragon Zarroc · Jan 14, 2009, 09:56 AM // 09:56

lol, gimmicks are easy to play, destroy every thing, and are fun. i don't see why people would be averse to sabway or discordway. the overall effectiveness comes from ur ability to fine-tune the builds to the certain area ur playing in anyways.

bungusmaximus · Jan 14, 2009, 11:05 AM // 11:05

My 2 cents and balanced HM setup:

Me:
[Spear of Lightning][Vicious attack][blazing spear][barbed spear]["Watch yourself!"]["To The Limit!"][Soldier's Fury][Resurrection signet]

Para
[Spear of Lightning][Vicious attack][blazing spear][Disrupting Throw]["Go For The Eyes!"][Power Drain][Soldier's Fury][Resurrection signet]

Necro1:
[Enfeebling Blood][Shadow of Fear][Lingering Curse][Ward Against Elements][Ward Against Melee][Rip Enchantment][Rigor Mortis][Resurrection Signet]

Necro2
[Animate Bone Minions][Animate Bone Horror][Infuse Condition][Expel Hexes][Foul Feast][Blood of the Master][Rip enchantment][Resurrection Signet]

Of course this isn't set in stone, as areas can change. I also never use pve skills, so things can be tweaked accordingly. This doesn't always work well in caster-heavy areas, but Morgahn can be swapped for a BA ranger there.

daze · Jan 14, 2009, 11:49 AM // 11:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by bungusmaximus

My 2 cents and balanced HM setup:

Me:
[Spear of Lightning][Vicious attack][blazing spear][barbed spear]["Watch yourself!"]["To The Limit!"][Soldier's Fury][Resurrection signet]

Para
[Spear of Lightning][Vicious attack][blazing spear][Disrupting Throw]["Go For The Eyes!"][Power Drain][Soldier's Fury][Resurrection signet]

Necro1:
[Enfeebling Blood][Shadow of Fear][Lingering Curse][Ward Against Elements][Ward Against Melee][Rip Enchantment][Rigor Mortis][Resurrection Signet]

Necro2
[Animate Bone Minions][Animate Bone Horror][Infuse Condition][Expel Hexes][Foul Feast][Blood of the Master][Rip enchantment][Resurrection Signet]

Of course this isn't set in stone, as areas can change. I also never use pve skills, so things can be tweaked accordingly. This doesn't always work well in caster-heavy areas, but Morgahn can be swapped for a BA ranger there.

Why no [save yourselves]? You enjoy gimping yourself by not using certain skills?

superraptors · Jan 14, 2009, 12:14 PM // 12:14

the 3 smiter roj monk steam rolls

but i run fc roj with drain ench / p drain
mm/ smiter
roj with more rupts

then my trustworthy alesia and lina in 6 man areas if 8 i bring along devona and stiffen the henchman
________
Pornstars Lacey Duvalle

bungusmaximus · Jan 14, 2009, 12:43 PM // 12:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by daze

Why no [save yourselves]? You enjoy gimping yourself by not using certain skills?

Spamming SY 24/7 isn't my idea of fun, it hurts my DPS anyway. Need a shout to keep Soldiers Fury up anyways, so the fact that SY doesn't work on myself kinda blows