Curse

Daesu · Apr 21, 2009, 03:47 PM // 15:47

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Originally Posted by Super Igor

If if it isn't random then what was Dunkoro's logic behind Mimicrying my [moebius strike]?

That depends on your Dunkoro's build doesn't it? Read what wiki said.

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is woh a prot elite? is pnh a prot elite? No. so fail less.

And I already said I prefer Divert hexes to it and you can't even self-target with RC, unlike many non-elite condition removing skills. Anyway, to each his own.

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Also, condition stacking is by far more common in pve than hex stacking, you rarely run into a mob that only spams one condition against you, they will ususally apply at least two. It's a cheap spell that can keep conditions off you party so if you are looking for a prot bar RC is the way to go.

There are already many fast recharge condition removal skills in the game that dont take up the elite slot. Unless you have enemies that dish out a lot of cover conditions on purpose (e.g. in pvp), you can make do with just the normal condition removal in most areas. At least Extinguish is more useful against disease and burning.

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I use this.

[build prof=mo/e box prot=14 divine=13][reversal of fortune][restore condition][mending touch][guardian][remove hex][protective spirit][aegis][glyph of lesser energy][/build]

Dont like how they use RoF but it makes up for lack of redbarring when there are no condition flying around.

I rather bring WoH on my hybrid.

Super Igor · Apr 21, 2009, 04:30 PM // 16:30

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Originally Posted by Daesu

That depends on your Dunkoro's build doesn't it? Read what wiki said.

HB/UA Mimic and if heroes know to use the skill correctly they should be able to use it correctly regardless of the build.

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And I already said I prefer Divert hexes to it and you can't even self-target with RC, unlike many non-elite condition removing skills. Anyway, to each his own.

divert only removes a condition if hexes are removed, trying to use divert as a condition removal is just dumb.

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There are already many fast recharge condition removal skills in the game that dont take up the elite slot. Unless you have enemies that dish out a lot of cover conditions on purpose (e.g. in pvp), you can make do with just the normal condition removal in most areas. At least Extinguish is more useful against disease and burning.

still, if you are looking for prot elites for a hero rc would be the best choice.

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I rather bring WoH on my hybrid.

pfff..telling you once again..

woh is not a prot elite, I am talking about prot elites. stop being dumb and read.

Daesu · Apr 21, 2009, 04:36 PM // 16:36

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Originally Posted by Super Igor

divert only removes a condition if hexes are removed, trying to use divert as a condition removal is just dumb.

Who says I am using divert to remove conditions? Never heard of non-elite condition removal skills?

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HB/UA Mimic and if heroes know to use the skill correctly they should be able to use it correctly regardless of the build.

Yes they know how to use it correctly if you know how to make builds that work.

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woh is not a prot elite, I am talking about prot elites, stop being dumb.

And divert hexes isn't a prot elite?

Super Igor · Apr 21, 2009, 04:40 PM // 16:40

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Originally Posted by Daesu

Who says I am using divert to remove conditions? Never heard of non-elite condition removal skills?

you

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And divert hexes isn't a prot elite?

what does divert have to do with woh?

Daesu · Apr 21, 2009, 04:41 PM // 16:41

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Originally Posted by Super Igor

what does divert have to do with woh?

You said you want a better prot elite than RC, and I gave you divert hexes.

But I usually prefer Woh on my hybrid for most areas. If you want a condition removal skill that takes up the elite slot, at least choose one that can target yourself and stop failing.

Konker2020 · Apr 21, 2009, 04:49 PM // 16:49

just for the record, they do mimic UA everytime for me, as soon as I walk out the gate and as soon as it drops...

on another note, I've been spending time making more builds to post for everyone to argue about...

I'll probably put some up later tonight...

Super Igor · Apr 21, 2009, 04:49 PM // 16:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

You said you want a better prot elite than RC, and I gave you divert hexes. But I usually prefer Woh on my hybrid for most areas.

No Daesu I didnt say that, youre seeing things again.

Yes, woh hybrid is best setup for a hero monk for pve but if you want to run a full prot hero run rc or sor since its good against pressure.

Konker2020 · Apr 21, 2009, 04:51 PM // 16:51

In my experience, even though RC has a low recharge, heroes use it poorly b/c they start spamming it on everyone just to remove 1 condition at a time... but that is just my opinion, personally I would rather use a different elite, and go with a non-elite condition removal, but again just my opinion...

Super Igor · Apr 21, 2009, 05:01 PM // 17:01

same as pretty much any other prot elite :P

best option is to not take dedicated healers/protters at all and simple run a hybrid.

Bobby2 · Apr 21, 2009, 05:03 PM // 17:03

Hybrid ftw. When full-prot, Assassin's Promise for more Aegis (not my idea, but I liked it).

Or just don't run Monk heroes and add more damage. This being a War team thread (SY! factored in), hench healers should do just fine...

nice thread btw

Daesu · Apr 21, 2009, 05:41 PM // 17:41

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Originally Posted by Super Igor

No Daesu I didnt say that, youre seeing things again.

Yes, woh hybrid is best setup for a hero monk for pve but if you want to run a full prot hero run rc or sor since its good against pressure.

Maybe I just dont understand what is it you are thinking. First of all, why must you bring a prot elite and not other elites? If you are in an area with lots of hexes and conditions, and you are bringing a primary monk then bring P&H as the elite for better bar compression. Otherwise, just bring the normal condition management skill that can at least self-target, not one that takes up your elite slot and can't self-target. Because it can't self-target, your skill bar above needs 2 condition removal skills which sucks. You do realize that by bringing P&H alone I can replace 3 of your skills (RC, Mending Touch, Remove Hex) on that bar. I rather bring a hybrid with a normal condition removal skill that can self-target and bring heals/prots.

If you are bringing a N/Mo for better energy management and that is why you need a prot elite, then you can just bring Foul Feast for condition management. I dont see why you need RC except maybe for certain special areas.

Whatever, I still prefer to bring a WoH hybrid and use normal condition removal skills than to bring RC for most areas.

Konker2020 · Apr 21, 2009, 05:44 PM // 17:44

So I think, this could be considered the discussion thread, after everything is said and done, ill open up another with a large archive of different builds... with that said, other should feel free to post their hero team builds, and just hero builds in general so we can work with them and in the end provide what would basically be a database of builds.

Super Igor · Apr 21, 2009, 06:41 PM // 18:41

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Originally Posted by Daesu

Maybe I just dont understand what is it you are thinking. First of all, why must you bring a prot elite and not other elites? If you are in an area with lots of hexes and conditions, and you are bringing a primary monk then bring P&H as the elite for better bar compression. Otherwise, just bring the normal condition management skill that can at least self-target, not one that takes up your elite slot and can't self-target. Because it can't self-target, your skill bar above needs 2 condition removal skills which sucks. You do realize that by bringing P&H alone I can replace 3 of your skills (RC, Mending Touch, Remove Hex) on that bar. I rather bring a hybrid with a normal condition removal skill that can self-target and bring heals/prots.

If you have a full rpot hero (for any reason) what other elite would you bring but the prot elite? o_O
And no you dont bring PnH into condition heavy area because it has too long of a recharge for a single condition removal skill, you still need to have another one on your bar. As a hex removal its pretty godly though or if you only need to keep one character free of hexes and conditions.

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If you are bringing a N/Mo for better energy management and that is why you need a prot elite, then you can just bring Foul Feast for condition management. I dont see why you need RC except maybe for certain special areas.

I'm talking about primary monks.

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Whatever, I still prefer to bring a WoH hybrid and use normal condition removal skills than to bring RC for most areas.

so does everyone?

Daesu · Apr 21, 2009, 06:58 PM // 18:58

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Originally Posted by Super Igor

If you have a full rpot hero (for any reason) what other elite would you bring but the prot elite? o_O

Name one good reason. Besides, even if you max prot for a primary monk, you usually pump to divine favor too anyway so it doesn't mean you can't take another elite from another attribute line besides prot.

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And no you dont bring PnH into condition heavy area because it has too long of a recharge for a single condition removal skill, you still need to have another one on your bar. As a hex removal its pretty godly though or if you only need to keep one character free of hexes and conditions.

I said bring P&H for condition and hex heavy areas. If it is just condition management that you are worried about, a non-elite condition removal should be sufficient. You dont get alot of stacked conditions from most areas in pve.

Super Igor · Apr 21, 2009, 07:47 PM // 19:47

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Originally Posted by Daesu

Name one good reason. Besides, even if you max prot for a primary monk, you usually pump to divine favor too anyway so it doesn't mean you can't take another elite from another attribute line besides prot.

For discussion's sake some people run monks like that.
What divine favor elite would you take?

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I said bring P&H for condition and hex heavy areas. If it is just condition management that you are worried about, a non-elite condition removal should be sufficient. You dont get alot of stacked conditions from most areas in pve.

Yes, but main reason to bring PnH are hexes, nobody uses it for condition removal.
You also said P&H alone I can replace 3 of your skills (RC, Mending Touch, Remove Hex). No, it cant, thats why I said you need to bring another extra condition removal ect.

Daesu · Apr 21, 2009, 07:59 PM // 19:59

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Originally Posted by Super Igor

For discussion's sake some people run monks like that.
What divine favor elite would you take?

P&H in condition and hex heavy areas because these are the areas that conditions and hexes stack.

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Yes, but main reason to bring PnH are hexes, nobody uses it for condition removal.
You also said P&H alone I can replace 3 of your skills (RC, Mending Touch, Remove Hex). No, it cant, thats why I said you need to bring another extra condition removal ect.

7 seconds is not that long. And even if you bring an extra condition removal skill, how is RC better? Since you cant self target with RC, you would also need another condition removal skill.

In the areas you that you need RC because of condition stacking, P&H makes a better choice because you can self-target and more universal.

AtomicMew · Apr 21, 2009, 09:01 PM // 21:01

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Originally Posted by Daesu

P&H in condition and hex heavy areas because these are the areas that conditions and hexes stack.

7 seconds is not that long. And even if you bring an extra condition removal skill, how is RC better? Since you cant self target with RC, you would also need another condition removal skill.

In the areas you that you need RC because of condition stacking, P&H makes a better choice because you can self-target and more universal.

Self targetting is not important at all. 7/8 times it's inarguably not even going to matter. But even if you did have condi-stack on your RC, you can just power-heal through it 99.9% of the time. The only dangerous condition to a monk is daze, but honestly, how often is that going to happen? PvE isn't smart enough to take advantage of non-self-targetability

I actually agree with you that RC is not a good choice. RC is never ever needed because there is no area in the game that condi-stacks without hex-stacking AND is also dangerous. But youe arguments are just flawed.

Daesu · Apr 21, 2009, 09:55 PM // 21:55

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Originally Posted by traversc

Self targetting is not important at all. 7/8 times it's inarguably not even going to matter. But even if you did have condi-stack on your RC, you can just power-heal through it 99.9% of the time. The only dangerous condition to a monk is daze, but honestly, how often is that going to happen? PvE isn't smart enough to take advantage of non-self-targetability

After 3 campaigns and 1 expansion daze is actually more common in pve now. Even so, why power heal and waste your energy as a primary monk, when you can simply get rid of the condition through non-elite condition removals.

Super Igor · Apr 21, 2009, 11:02 PM // 23:02

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Originally Posted by Daesu

7 seconds is not that long. And even if you bring an extra condition removal skill, how is RC better? Since you cant self target with RC, you would also need another condition removal skill.

In the areas you that you need RC because of condition stacking, P&H makes a better choice because you can self-target and more universal.

If you are looking to remove conditions from your party it is long, just look at the alternatives and think.
For condition removal RC is better because it has low recharge and provides with better redbarring.
How is PnH more universal? Places with dangerous hexes are far more rare and are most harmful for melee than casters who wont need mass hex removal at all. use of PnH is quite limited in pve.

Daesu · Apr 21, 2009, 11:37 PM // 23:37

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Originally Posted by Super Igor

If you are looking to remove conditions from your party it is long, just look at the alternatives and think.
For condition removal RC is better because it has low recharge and provides with better redbarring.
How is PnH more universal? Places with dangerous hexes are far more rare and are most harmful for melee than casters who wont need mass hex removal at all. use of PnH is quite limited in pve.

P&H is more universal relative to RC because it handles both conditions and hexes, instead of just conditions and it can be self-targeting. Bar compression ftw.

If I need red barring I would bring an unconditional heal rather than one that only heals if you have a condition.