Curse

Konker2020 · Apr 07, 2009, 03:54 PM // 15:54

So, I'm not really a fan of running "gimmicks", which in my opinion are things like Sabway, Rayway, Discordway etc.

I just wanted to get that out of the way first.

Anyway I generally like to make use of the better portion of my heroes, and am looking to create several interchangable team builds for them with myself. I run a W/X, I have access to every skill for my heroes, and can gain access to any skill on my toon. I have the money and am willing to rune my armor specifically, etc.

I usually run with my clan and guild mate, he currently runs a N/X is is under the same circumstances as I am. Usually we work together just make our own builds, but I thought it would be interesting to see what kind of responses I can get, and maybe work something out of some of the ideas that may or may not get posted. By no means am I looking to waste anyone's time and am willing to test out and work with pretty well any idea. To be honest, I would in time like to use this as research and create a post with workable combinations for all of the heroes to help others out later. I have already started working on this with our own builds, but I figured this would speed things up.

And please, please, please... do not turn this into a "my build is better than yours", or a "just run Discord/ just run Sabway, etc." thread... thanks in advance

Super Igor · Apr 07, 2009, 04:05 PM // 16:05

just run Sabway/Discord they stroll

Daesu · Apr 07, 2009, 04:19 PM // 16:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konker2020

And please, please, please... do not turn this into a "my build is better than yours", or a "just run Discord/ just run Sabway, etc." thread... thanks in advance

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

just run Sabway/Discord they stroll

Igor the troll strikes again...

The best build would be one that synergizes with your own character build/playstyle and the area. You need to give more information than that for us to give you a better recommendation.

Shadow Own · Apr 07, 2009, 04:43 PM // 16:43

warrior should play dslash, ur nec mate is good as curses or mm, then add some healers and the rest is up to you. perhaps a order guy and barragers, be creative and post your builds, then we will try to improve em

Archress Shayleigh · Apr 07, 2009, 05:32 PM // 17:32

Become a tank, get a bunch of AoE nukers, splinter barragers, maybe SS and damage away!

Eragon Zarroc · Apr 07, 2009, 07:12 PM // 19:12

lol, running necro's is just intelligent because of the e-management they get ;-) allows for the most continous battle times without ur team becoming drained of energy and failing. otherwise, all balanced builds are widely varying. i suggest u just search around ;-). gimmick builds are powerful because they exploit the skills that are stronger than others. especially when used in unison like [discord] and [ray of judgment]. u don't get a prize at the end for running builds that are not popular ;-)

Konker2020 · Apr 07, 2009, 08:15 PM // 20:15

I just prefer to run builds that are not mainstream... and the idea was not to update builds but to get up a form of database of different team builds that would work well together, just because a build works, every other person uses gimmick builds, and sooner or later Anet is gonna nerf em, so that would leave every other person pretty well screwed for the time being... I just wanted to try to compile something for others that may or may not have every hero, or a specific set of heroes, I wanted to try and get the GWG community involved in coming up with something that could help pretty well everyone, regardless of they have or don't for heroes anyway. I didn't post builds to update on because that wasn't the point behind it.

infamous16 · Apr 07, 2009, 09:04 PM // 21:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konker2020

I just prefer to run builds that are not mainstream... and the idea was not to update builds but to get up a form of database of different team builds that would work well together, just because a build works, every other person uses gimmick builds, and sooner or later Anet is gonna nerf em, so that would leave every other person pretty well screwed for the time being... I just wanted to try to compile something for others that may or may not have every hero, or a specific set of heroes, I wanted to try and get the GWG community involved in coming up with something that could help pretty well everyone, regardless of they have or don't for heroes anyway. I didn't post builds to update on because that wasn't the point behind it.

I'd suggest a n/rt healer, optional (roj, mm, etc.), and a order derv or nec.

Konker2020 · Apr 08, 2009, 12:55 AM // 00:55

Ok... allow me to restate the topic.

I'm looking to come up with a large compilation of general hero builds that will synergize well with other hero and player builds. I'm not looking for builds such as Discordway or Sabway, etc... Basically I would like to turn this into a large discussion and the overall goal would be to come up with a vast amount of hero builds that when put with other hero builds would work extremely well (possibly even better than the gimmick builds that everyone uses today).

So I'll start off with a few hero monk builds that I hope to improve:

[build prof=Mo/Me name="Unyielding Healer" desc="Set hero on guard.{br}Staff with HP+60 and 20/20." Div=12+1+3 Hea=10+2 Ins=8 pve][Ethereal Light][Healing Whisper][Patient Spirit][Signet of Rejuvenation][Leech Signet][Power Drain][Heaven's Delight][Unyielding Aura][/build]

[build prof=Mo/Me name="Unyielding Protter" desc="Set hero on guard.{br}Staff with HP+60 and 20/20." Div=12+1+3 Pro=10+2 Ins=8 pve][Dismiss Condition][Protective Spirit][Reversal of Fortune][Shielding Hands][Leech Signet][Power Drain][Heaven's Delight][Unyielding Aura][/build]

Any suggestions?

Daesu · Apr 08, 2009, 01:56 AM // 01:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konker2020

Ok... allow me to restate the topic.

I'm looking to come up with a large compilation of general hero builds that will synergize well with other hero and player builds. I'm not looking for builds such as Discordway or Sabway, etc... Basically I would like to turn this into a large discussion and the overall goal would be to come up with a vast amount of hero builds that when put with other hero builds would work extremely well (possibly even better than the gimmick builds that everyone uses today).

So I'll start off with a few hero monk builds that I hope to improve:

[build prof=Mo/Me name="Unyielding Healer" desc="Set hero on guard.{br}Staff with HP+60 and 20/20." Div=12+1+3 Hea=10+2 Ins=8 pve][Ethereal Light][Healing Whisper][Patient Spirit][Signet of Rejuvenation][Leech Signet][Power Drain][Heaven's Delight][Unyielding Aura][/build]

[build prof=Mo/Me name="Unyielding Protter" desc="Set hero on guard.{br}Staff with HP+60 and 20/20." Div=12+1+3 Pro=10+2 Ins=8 pve][Dismiss Condition][Protective Spirit][Reversal of Fortune][Shielding Hands][Leech Signet][Power Drain][Heaven's Delight][Unyielding Aura][/build]

Any suggestions?

Here is a build that I use sometimes with a MM hero.

If you are interested in dual monk heroes build, you can get an idea from here then modify this build for yourself.

http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:Team_-_UA/HB_Mimicry

The healing works well and the res is fast. It is not sabway/discordway/rayway or whatever, just a build.

Konker2020 · Apr 08, 2009, 02:19 AM // 02:19

Thanks Daesu, so I changed some of the skills around and switched out some others and came up with the following:

[build prof=Mo/Me name="HB Mimicry" desc="Set hero on guard.{br}Staff with HP+60 and 20/20." Div=10+2 Hea=12+1+3 Ins=8 pve][Ethereal Light][Healing Whisper][Patient Spirit][Healer's Boon][Leech Signet][Power Drain][Heal Party][Arcane Mimicry][/build]

[build prof=Mo/E name="UA Protter" desc="Set hero on guard.{br}Staff with HP+60 and 20/20." Div=12+1+3 Pro=12+2 pve][Dismiss Condition][Protective Spirit][Reversal of Fortune][Spirit Bond][Glyph of Lesser Energy][Deny Hexes][Heaven's Delight][Unyielding Aura][/build]

What do you think?

Daesu · Apr 08, 2009, 02:44 AM // 02:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konker2020

Thanks Daesu, so I changed some of the skills around and switched out some others and came up with the following:

[build prof=Mo/Me name="HB Mimicry" desc="Set hero on guard.{br}Staff with HP+60 and 20/20." Div=10+2 Hea=12+1+3 Ins=8 pve][Ethereal Light][Healing Whisper][Patient Spirit][Healer's Boon][Leech Signet][Power Drain][Heal Party][Arcane Mimicry][/build]

[build prof=Mo/Me name="UA Protter" desc="Set hero on guard.{br}Staff with HP+60 and 20/20." Div=12+1+3 Pro=12+2 pve][Dismiss Condition][Protective Spirit][Reversal of Fortune][Spirit Bond][Glyph of Lesser Energy][Deny Hexes][Heaven's Delight][Unyielding Aura][/build]

What do you think?

Check your Protter's energy during HM fights. I usually dont let one monk hero bring both PS and SB, too many 10e fast recharge spells can drain him dry since heroes tend to spam. I also prefer SoA to RoF. You can set your protter to avoid combat since he doesn't have any skills that need to target an enemy.

I prefer Waste not want not to Leech Signet. You only get energy back if Leech Signet interrupts a spell and the signet recharge is high. I also like to bring Cure Hex for a hex removal but that is up to you.

AtomicMew · Apr 08, 2009, 03:34 AM // 03:34

I am a big fan of a hex-way type build. It's sort of a variation of sabway. This consists of me (SS, technobabble, etc), Gwen (VoR) and 2 healer type (HB or n/rt) or MM type. Works quite well IMO.

Paul Dawg · Apr 08, 2009, 04:19 AM // 04:19

Quote:

What do you think?

I don't like either one. Let's start with this one:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konker2020

[build prof=Mo/Me name="HB Mimicry" desc="Set hero on guard.{br}Staff with HP+60 and 20/20." Div=10+2 Hea=12+1+3 Ins=8 pve][Ethereal Light][Healing Whisper][Patient Spirit][Healer's Boon][Leech Signet][Power Drain][Heal Party][Arcane Mimicry][/build]

I really don't think it's a great idea to ask monk heroes to load spells that are easily interrupted or have half the normal range. Great way to get their skills interrupted and/or get them killed in combat.

I don't find that heroes use [healer's boon]/[heal party] particularly efficiently. Humans do that very well. Heroes kinda mess it up.

What they're GREAT at, by contrast, is spamming [word of healing] quickly and efficiently. I hope you don't consider that a "gimmick."

Quote:

[build prof=Mo/Me name="UA Protter" desc="Set hero on guard.{br}Staff with HP+60 and 20/20." Div=12+1+3 Pro=12+2 pve][Dismiss Condition][Protective Spirit][Reversal of Fortune][Spirit Bond][Glyph of Lesser Energy][Deny Hexes][Heaven's Delight][Unyielding Aura][/build]

Don't like this one either. First, [mend condition] is better than [dismiss condition] because it heals whenever it removes a condition, whereas [dismiss condition] heals only if the target is enchanted. (And yes, I know, [mend condition] can't self-target.) But I find that no monk condition-removal skill is anywhere near as effective as the simple necro skill [foul feast] (which people naturally use on all those "gimmick" builds that you don't like). Since I don't particularly like your elite anyway, just solve all these problems with [restore condition], and use something like [rebirth] in the extra slot. (The only other viable prot elite for a hero is [zealous benediction].)

Hexes are rarely a serious problem in PvE, and [deny hexes] forces you to devote a substantial portion of your bar to them, since it's pointless without other Divine Favor skills. That means you're taking [heaven's delight], which is otherwise not a highly efficient skill, merely because you need to find Divine Favor stuff to power [deny hexes]. My view of hexes in PvE is: (1) in most areas (>90%), just ignore them; (2) if hexes are REALLY serious, go whole hog with skills like [spotless mind] or [peace and harmony].

Lastly, yeah, as has already been said, [protective spirit] AND [spirit bond] on the same bar can really burn energy. Overall, I find that heroes are less asinine with [protective spirit] than with [spirit bond]. And if you're serious about protting, you MUST have [aegis] on your bar. That's worth way more than things like [reversal of fortune].

Konker2020 · Apr 08, 2009, 04:29 AM // 04:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konker2020

[build prof=Mo/Me name="HB Mimicry" desc="Set hero on guard.{br}Staff with HP+60 and 20/20." Div=10+2 Hea=12+1+3 Ins=8 pve][Ethereal Light][Healing Whisper][Patient Spirit][Healer's Boon][Leech Signet][Power Drain][Heal Party][Arcane Mimicry][/build]

[build prof=Mo/E name="UA Protter" desc="Set hero on guard.{br}Staff with HP+60 and 20/20." Div=12+1+3 Pro=12+2 pve][Dismiss Condition][Protective Spirit][Reversal of Fortune][Spirit Bond][Glyph of Lesser Energy][Deny Hexes][Heaven's Delight][Unyielding Aura][/build]

Ok... so I'm thinking maybe

[build prof=Mo/Me name="HB Mimicry" desc="Set hero on guard.{br}Staff with HP+60 and 20/20." Div=10+1+3 Hea=12+2 Ins=8 pve][Cure Hex][Healing Whisper][Patient Spirit][Healer's Boon][Power Drain][Waste Not, Want Not][Heal Party][Arcane Mimicry][/build]

[build prof=Mo/Me name="UA Protter" desc="Set hero on guard.{br}Staff with HP+60 and 20/20." Div=10+1+3 Pro=12+2 Ins=8 pve][Mend Condition][Aegis][Protective Spirit][Reversal of Fortune][Power Drain][Waste Not, Want Not][Divine Intervention][Unyielding Aura][/build]

Personally, I've never really been a fan of [[GoLE] for E-management, I much prefer the interupt of [[Power Drain]. I also threw in [[Divine Intervention] because with past usage experience, heroes use it really well and I'm gonna give [[Waste Not, Want Not] a shot, I'll let you know how it goes.

Konker2020 · Apr 08, 2009, 05:26 AM // 05:26

That works extremely well together, I also brought along my Rt/N Minion Bomber... Tested this in several HM locations and managed to hold the pressure of several large groups without fail...

[build prof=Rt/N name=Explosive Minions desc="Set hero on avoid combat.{br}Staff with HP+60 and 20/20." Spa=12+1+1 Dea=12 pve][Animate Bone Minions][Aura of the Lich][Blood of the Master][Death Nova][Boon of Creation][Explosive Growth][Signet of Creation][Spirit's Gift][/build]

Daesu · Apr 08, 2009, 06:49 AM // 06:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konker2020

That works extremely well together, I also brought along my Rt/N Minion Bomber... Tested this in several HM locations and managed to hold the pressure of several large groups without fail...

[build prof=Rt/N name=Explosive Minions desc="Set hero on avoid combat.{br}Staff with HP+60 and 20/20." Spa=12+1+1 Dea=12 pve][Animate Bone Minions][Aura of the Lich][Blood of the Master][Death Nova][Boon of Creation][Explosive Growth][Signet of Creation][Spirit's Gift][/build]

Or just use a necro MM with Foul Feast, Infuse Condition, Dwayna's Sorrow, ..etc.

Super Igor · Apr 08, 2009, 10:28 AM // 10:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konker2020

Ok... so I'm thinking maybe

[build prof=Mo/Me name="HB Mimicry" desc="Set hero on guard.{br}Staff with HP+60 and 20/20." Div=10+1+3 Hea=12+2 Ins=8 pve][Cure Hex][Healing Whisper][Patient Spirit][Healer's Boon][Power Drain][Waste Not, Want Not][Heal Party][Arcane Mimicry][/build]

[build prof=Mo/Me name="UA Protter" desc="Set hero on guard.{br}Staff with HP+60 and 20/20." Div=10+1+3 Pro=12+2 Ins=8 pve][Mend Condition][Aegis][Protective Spirit][Reversal of Fortune][Power Drain][Waste Not, Want Not][Divine Intervention][Unyielding Aura][/build]

Personally, I've never really been a fan of [[GoLE] for E-management, I much prefer the interupt of [[Power Drain]. I also threw in [[Divine Intervention] because with past usage experience, heroes use it really well and I'm gonna give [[Waste Not, Want Not] a shot, I'll let you know how it goes.

I personally dislike one heal and one prot monk hero teams because you lose out on damage greatly, that is unless you run 6 heroes ofc. I dont really like UA/HB Miicry on heroes either because it's simply not worth the effort making them mimicry stuff but w/e.

thats what I suggest:

[build prof=Mo/Me box Heal=12+1+1 Div=10+1 Ins=8 pve][Patient Spirit][Dwayna's Kiss][Cure Hex][Heal Party][Power Drain][Waste Not, Want Not][Healer's Boon][Arcane Mimicry][/build]

[build prof=Mo/Me box Div=11+1 Pro=11+1+1 Ins=8 pve][Dismiss Condition][Aegis][Protective Spirit][Shield of Absorption][Heaven's Delight][Power Drain][Waste Not, Want Not][Unyielding Aura][/build]

Ok now first of all, never...and I say NEVER run superiors and especially superiors when you already have a major rune stuck somewhere the small bonus they would give to the skills is simply not worth the large health loss. Only in rare cases ONE superior or major can be useful if you have to hit an important breakpoint but it doesn't apply here.

I changed your build around in this way, the team uses same concept with same energy management but with better skills.
I dont like [healing whisper], anything that makes your monk go closer to the fronline is simply bad. I replaced it with [dwayna's kiss], with so many enchants flying around it's a great powerheal especially when combined with [healer's boon].
For the US guy [dismiss condition] is much better, can target self, slightly more heal, same recharge and cast and the conditional healing bit simply does not exist because everything has some kind of ench on it. [divine intervention] is useless, you dont die in pve, especially with two players and six heroes, if you die then something went wrong and youre wiping, in that case being alive slightly more won't matter. I dont see it for pulling or countering boss damage either, for that job prot spirit > all. On other hand Heaven's Delight is a very good cheap party wide heal when combine with UA and heroes use it well. RoF, heroes suck at RoF but are good with [shield of absorption]. ^^

Super Igor · Apr 08, 2009, 10:42 AM // 10:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konker2020

Ok... allow me to restate the topic.

I'm looking to come up with a large compilation of general hero builds that will synergize well with other hero and player builds. I'm not looking for builds such as Discordway or Sabway, etc... Basically I would like to turn this into a large discussion and the overall goal would be to come up with a vast amount of hero builds that when put with other hero builds would work extremely well (possibly even better than the gimmick builds that everyone uses today).

So I'll start off with a few hero monk builds that I hope to improve:

[build prof=Mo/Me name="Unyielding Healer" desc="Set hero on guard.{br}Staff with HP+60 and 20/20." Div=12+1+3 Hea=10+2 Ins=8 pve][Ethereal Light][Healing Whisper][Patient Spirit][Signet of Rejuvenation][Leech Signet][Power Drain][Heaven's Delight][Unyielding Aura][/build]

[build prof=Mo/Me name="Unyielding Protter" desc="Set hero on guard.{br}Staff with HP+60 and 20/20." Div=12+1+3 Pro=10+2 Ins=8 pve][Dismiss Condition][Protective Spirit][Reversal of Fortune][Shielding Hands][Leech Signet][Power Drain][Heaven's Delight][Unyielding Aura][/build]

Any suggestions?

To be honest this is where you been closest to the bullseye in terms of monks. UA/HB Mimicry with heroes is bullshit like I have said before, good with two players in elite mission and things but it's just not hero-firendly.

[build prof=Mo/Me box Div=11+1+1 Hea=10+1 prot=8+1 insp=6 pve][Patient Spirit][Dismiss Condition][Cure Hex][Protective Spirit][Aegis][Heaven's Delight][Unyielding Aura][Power Drain][/build]

[build prof=Mo/Me box Div=11+1+1 Hea=10+1 prot=8+1 insp=6 pve][Patient Spirit][Dismiss Condition][Cure Hex][Aegis][Divine Healing][Heaven's Delight][Unyielding Aura][Power Drain][/build]

Interrupts, great party-wide heals, great target heals, condition/hex removal, almost perma block from aegis chain....what else do you need to stay elive in PvE? ^^

Divine Healing or Cure Hex can be replaced for Shield of Absorption or Guardian for the second monk, DH and HD can be replaced with Heal Party for bar compression if needed. Cure Hex can be replaced with Deny Hexes but honestly you often dont need this much hex removal in PvE.

Daesu · Apr 08, 2009, 03:50 PM // 15:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

To be honest this is where you been closest to the bullseye in terms of monks. UA/HB Mimicry with heroes is bullshit like I have said before, good with two players in elite mission and things but it's just not hero-firendly.

[build prof=Mo/Me box Div=11+1+1 Hea=10+1 prot=8+1 insp=6 pve][Patient Spirit][Dismiss Condition][Cure Hex][Protective Spirit][Aegis][Heaven's Delight][Unyielding Aura][Power Drain][/build]

[build prof=Mo/Me box Div=11+1+1 Hea=10+1 prot=8+1 insp=6 pve][Patient Spirit][Dismiss Condition][Cure Hex][Aegis][Divine Healing][Heaven's Delight][Unyielding Aura][Power Drain][/build]

Interrupts, great party-wide heals, great target heals, condition/hex removal, almost perma block from aegis chain....what else do you need to stay elive in PvE? ^^

Divine Healing or Cure Hex can be replaced for Shield of Absorption or Guardian for the second monk, DH and HD can be replaced with Heal Party for bar compression if needed. Cure Hex can be replaced with Deny Hexes but honestly you often dont need this much hex removal in PvE.

You know Igor, I feel compelled to agree with you because people say we have always been arguing with each other. But if I have to agree with you even though I think it is a bad build then I am just not being honest.

At least with your post just before this one, I can agree with the top half but this build is just too energy draining for one. What happens if you are not fighting casters (or they are dead) but a melee group and you need energy? You have no spells to interrupt and no energy management.

Besides patient spirit there are no direct heals and patient has a 2s delay for heals. Sometimes you just need direct heals on the spot. You also dont need 3 copies of party heals. Heroes also dont use dismiss condition or cure hex as direct heals.

Also I dont see how your dual UA is any superior to UA+HB mimicry, seems inferior to me. HB stacks with UA for a huge amount of heal. To calculate how much the HB build heals if you cast UA at 14 Divine Favor, just multiply what the spell originally says it heals for by 2.355, round to the nearest whole number, then add 35 for divine favor. Example, Ethereal Light at 14 heal prayers says it heals for 95, so 95x2.355=223.725. Rounded it is 224+35 for Divine Favor in 1/2 seconds for 5 energy. You still lose 2 heroes to damage and the only other reason you said was "bullshit" without explaining why it is not hero-friendly.

Looking at his protter build again, there is also a problem:

[build prof=Mo/Me name="UA Protter" desc="Set hero on guard.{br}Staff with HP+60 and 20/20." Div=10+1+3 Pro=12+2 Ins=8 pve][Mend Condition][Aegis][Protective Spirit][Reversal of Fortune][Power Drain][Waste Not, Want Not][Divine Intervention][Unyielding Aura][/build]

He should at least keep Heaven's Delight or its counterpart. Otherwise, he is not making use of UA other than a res and for the other monk to mimic.