Curse

superraptors · May 07, 2009, 08:35 AM // 08:35

id just run 3 rojs with 3 smite hex, steamroll these areas

Quote:

most ppl don't have more than 14 Healing Prayers on their heroes, and in order to eliminate a third hex, you need 15

umm enchanting mod says hi
________
Medical Marijuana Dispensaries In Las Vegas

Gigashadow · May 08, 2009, 09:12 PM // 21:12

I have [Divert Hexes] on my curses/prot necro, and thought it was a worthwhile trade for what I previously had, [Spiteful Spirit]. It adds some decent red barring, which can be good depending on how much healing your setup has (I try to go with the minimum of healing possible, and prefer to split my healing/defense across multiple characters rather than having dedicated offense and defense characters). You're almost always getting rid of a condition or two as well when you take a hex off. Only a necro primary can afford to use this, however.

Hanging Man · May 08, 2009, 09:18 PM // 21:18

For hex heavy areas I usually have my monk heroes run this

[peace and harmony][cure hex][spotless soul][spotless mind][patient spirit][ethereal light][remove hex][resurrection chant]

Abedeus · May 08, 2009, 09:25 PM // 21:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanging Man

For hex heavy areas I usually have my monk heroes run this

[peace and harmony][cure hex][spotless soul][spotless mind][patient spirit][ethereal light][remove hex][resurrection chant]

Oh dear. Aren't 4 hex removals (where all are semi-spammable and two remove few conditions) a bit much? Even if it is a heavy-hex area.

Why not get a Hex Eater Signet instead of Remove Hex? Useful for e-management and those pesky AoE hexes, like Lingering Curse or Deep Freeze.

...Or Mark of Rodgort.

Carinae · May 27, 2009, 09:55 AM // 09:55

This is a really good question, and I have spent some time developing a solution for it. However, the solution might not be to everyone's liking as it may require a change of play-style, particularly for Sabway/Discordway players.

I developed this build for Morostav Trail VQs, which is heavy on conditions and moderate on hexes. It seems to work just fine in other areas and kills at least as fast as Discordway with the same durability.

Hero 1: E/Mo - Ether-Prot

13 ES
10 Prot
10 Heal

Protective Spirit
Spirit Bond
Dwayna's Kiss
Infuse Health
Convert Hexes
Aegis
Ether Renewal
Aura of Restoration

Hero 2: N/Mo - Smiting Orders

13 Blood
11 SR
10 Smiting

Order of Pain
Dark Fury
Empathic Removal
Smite Hex
Smite Condition
Strip Enchantment
Masochism
Strength of Honor (disabled)

Hero 3: N/* - Jagged Bomber

16 Death
13 SR
4 Blood

Death Nova
Jagged Bones
Vampiric Minions
Fiends
Blood of the Master
Foul Feast
Dark Bond
Infuse Conditon

Henchmen:

Devona
Sword hench (favor Talon if available)
Archer (favor Zho if available)
Prot hench (if unavailable, healer hench, or rit is passable)

Since you are the melee, it's strongly advisable to be running SY anyway. This build doesn't require it, but adding insult-to-injury is a good way to win, so run it.

This has been tested with a Sin and War as the lead melee. Works equally well, you don't need to adapt the build at all between them. I would think a Para could run it just fine. Ranger? Dunno, I won't say no, but I'd expect it to be harder. Maybe, I'm wrong though.

Melee henchmen are selected for their synergy with Orders, and incidental skills. Devona's Charge! works on minions too, so it's a team-wide IMS. (For once this crappy hench skill helps)

The E/Mo Ether-Prot was build specifically to synergize with a prot-henchman. H/H won't recast a existing enchantment, so you'll get Aegis-chaining (yay), and proper PS+SB stacking. There are three party-wide enchants (Orders and Aegis), along with several point enchants, which make Dwayna's Kiss very effective. Infuse is used often and effectively. He will only use Convert when needed (not as a heal) and he self-maintains ER and AoR without microing. This bar is hero-proof. He CAN'T miscast. He CAN'T run out of energy.

Other Benefits:
Triple hex removal and triple cond-removal. (or 4x for both, depending on how you count Empathic)
Enchant removal
Automatic e-management AND self-heals for all heroes.
Order of Pain and SoH for melee buffing
Adrenaline boosting
Devona and the Archer usually have a few interrupts/KDs available, as well as a few extra conditions.

Try it out, feel free to leave feedback.

AtomicMew · May 27, 2009, 07:23 PM // 19:23

P&H used to be a good. I've used it with my para before. After the nerf, I'm not sure.

You can play generic sabway, but instead of jagged bones, take divert hexes or empathic removal.

You can play discordway with a melee. Search for daesu's build.. it's somewhere around here

The very best way to avoid hexes is to have a huge minion army. Discordway, 2x MMs N/Mo's, both with hex removal discordway is very strong.

@Carinae:
The problem with ER hero is that heroes suck at it. If you care enough and manual everything, it's a decent option.

For hex heavy areas, orders aren't reliable enough IMO. You don't actually need it, at any rate, and I think another MM would help more.

Carinae · May 27, 2009, 07:58 PM // 19:58

I experimented with P&H, but you can't make it work on a hero bar. Monk heroes are just worthless as healers due to terrible e-management. Divert fails for the same reason.

This ER-Prot is actually quite good, especially when paired with a prot henchman or another ER-Prot. As I stated, the bar is hero-proof. He can't miscast or run out of energy. These heroes have been getting a LOT of play time in our alliance over the past few months. They are 100% fire-and-forget, you don't have to micro them at all.

I don't see why Orders would be less reliable in a hex-heavy area, especially with this degree of hex-removal.

Paul Dawg · May 27, 2009, 08:57 PM // 20:57

In super hex-heavy areas, you could load the old [peace and harmony] onto a hero's bar and use it manually. It was helpful in places like the last level of Slaver's, where anti-melee hexes can be deadly. (I agree that heroes are kinda lame with it when they're left to their own devices.) However, the nerf has turned an interesting elite with an extremely narrow niche into a weaker elite with an extremely narrow niche, so there's even more reason than before to try to figure out a different strategy.

AtomicMew · May 28, 2009, 02:19 AM // 02:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carinae Dragonblood

I experimented with P&H, but you can't make it work on a hero bar. Monk heroes are just worthless as healers due to terrible e-management. Divert fails for the same reason.

Here's the bar I used (or something close):
[Peace and Harmony][Guardian][mend condition][Heaven's Delight][Heaven's Delight duplicate][drain enchantment][power drain][waste not want not]

The e-management is inspiration. It works.

Quote:

This ER-Prot is actually quite good, especially when paired with a prot henchman or another ER-Prot. As I stated, the bar is hero-proof. He can't miscast or run out of energy. These heroes have been getting a LOT of play time in our alliance over the past few months. They are 100% fire-and-forget, you don't have to micro them at all.

The bar is far from hero proof. Heroes do not keep up ER as much as possible (they only use it when they're low on energy). They also do not spam under ER like they should, so when they are under ER, they won't always go back up to full energy.

It's fine if you want to manual it, but it's disingenuous to say it's hero proof when its clear you haven't tested it extensively. For me, it's too much work.

Quote:

I don't see why Orders would be less reliable in a hex-heavy area, especially with this degree of hex-removal.

Orders is less reliable in hex heavy because, 1) 10 minions exploding will output more damage, especially with barbs/MoP if it's available, 2) minions will absorb hexes meaning your heroes spend less time removing hexes and more time making damage and 3) less hexes on you, heroes, etc means you getting shut down less.

Yes, I know it's blasphemy not running orders with physway, but putting up SY! doesn't help as much because the danger here lies in hex pressure rather than raw damage.

Again, I think daesu's discordway build, which is sort of a physway/discordway hybrid will provide the best results if you want to run melee.

Chthon · May 28, 2009, 02:54 AM // 02:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carinae Dragonblood

<H+H build>

That's a fine build. I miss the curses though. If there was a fourth hero slot, it should be curses. If there was a second player, it should be AP+MoP. However, I think you're probably correct that orders + SoH boosts damage more than barbs would (and the heroes don't cast MoP frequently or intelligently enough to rely on).

Quote:

Originally Posted by traversc

The bar is far from hero proof. Heroes do not keep up ER as much as possible (they only use it when they're low on energy).

They also do not spam under ER like they should, so when they are under ER, they won't always go back up to full energy.

It's fine if you want to manual it, but it's disingenuous to say it's hero proof when its clear you haven't tested it extensively.

That's funny, my heroes have no problem with it. The only time I need to micro it is when I want it precast before battle to preprot or avoid an interrupt in the first few seconds of the fight.

It's certainly true that the AI isn't aggressive enough in spamming infuse, but (a) it's still a much, much stronger healer than anything else the hero/hench offer, and (b) that's what DKiss is in there for.

Quote:

For me, it's too much work.

I'm not surprised. Given your views on discordway, I'd wager that double-clicking to load the game borders on too much work for you....

AtomicMew · May 28, 2009, 06:21 AM // 06:21

@Cthon: take your flame mongering elsewhere.

Heroes do not use ER infuse very well at all. There's a reason there's no ER infuse hero on PvX, (while there is a general PvE version), and that's simply because it doesn't work very well.

FINE. Whatever, IDC. if it works well for you, good for you. It's not something particularly important or something I want to argue about.

Despite all this, you completely failed to address the real issue, which is, an additional MM will do more for you than orders in hex heavy area due to the reasons I gave. Even though you're still hurt over the other thread and are going to argue against anything I say, I think you know this to be true.

Please just be honest.

upier · May 28, 2009, 07:25 AM // 07:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carinae Dragonblood

he self-maintains ER and AoR without microing. This bar is hero-proof. He CAN'T miscast. He CAN'T run out of energy.

This is my issue also.
My heroes seem to be unable to keep up Maso or Attunements.
That's why I never paid attention to ER. So there's really NO micro-ing involved?

Carinae · May 28, 2009, 08:34 AM // 08:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

This is my issue also.
My heroes seem to be unable to keep up Maso or Attunements.
That's why I never paid attention to ER. So there's really NO micro-ing involved?

None.

12345678

maxxfury · May 28, 2009, 11:29 AM // 11:29

Unless you wanna toss in GoS for faster reload on ether, as they are a little lame with it use. IF your not wanting to run infuse on them, heal other is fairly passable...fairly.

Gigashadow · May 28, 2009, 07:34 PM // 19:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by traversc

The bar is far from hero proof. Heroes do not keep up ER as much as possible (they only use it when they're low on energy). They also do not spam under ER like they should, so when they are under ER, they won't always go back up to full energy.

It's fine if you want to manual it, but it's disingenuous to say it's hero proof when its clear you haven't tested it extensively. For me, it's too much work.

I found this too, I did have to manual ER occasionally. Also he did not spam Infuse like I was hoping. Overall I was quite disappointed with the hero E/Mo infuser.

To the OP, on the subject of hexes, I've been using a N/Mo smiter with strength of honor (it's really good now), smite hex, smite condition, empathic removal. I have 2 minion skills and a bunch of other stuff on there too but you could substitute another attribute line instead. It's been more than sufficient to keep anti-melee hexes off, although you will need to micro the hex removals sometimes. You can also put empathic removal on your curses necro as well (instead of the spiteful spirit you probably have there), so you have 2 copies of it available.