Curse

Unreal Havoc · Jul 03, 2009, 10:33 PM // 22:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrael_Eveningsong

Care to explain how I'm wrong?

The only selling point that Discordway has vs. other builds is that anyone can run it. That's it. You need to be an Assassin, doesn't matter whether primary or secondary (yup, that means any player can run it, including the gimped Warrior with a staff who can't even consistently run the full chain), and the 3 skills you use besides Assassin's Promise are PvE-rank skills that can be used by any Profession. That's the single reason that Discordway is "great".

You don't need to be an Assassin to run Discordway. All you need is a hex and a condition. You can quite easily supply that with Asuran Scan + a condition then cover it, if you want to, allowing you to run pretty much whatever you want (that's only an example).

Discordway is good because it is a strong, and powerful, setup that supplies good damage, utility, and healing and is easy to run. The fact that anyone can use it only makes it stronger. It is far from a build that blows.

Quote:

If you want to play a game where every Profession/Class/Occupation is the same, GTFO of GW and play Tic-Tac-Toe. Same damn difference.

What the hell does that have to do with running Discordway on three of your heroes? Better yet, who the hell are you to tell anyone else how to play the game they paid for? When it's hero and hench it affects no one other than the person running the build so you have no legitimate reason to even go there.

If you have a problem with people running powerful hero builds I suggest you take your complaint up with Anet, because you can hardly blame a player for exploiting a powerful hero setup. If I have the choice of running a good build or a sub par one I'm going to run the good one until it gets nerfed then I'll find another alternative.

Super Igor · Jul 03, 2009, 10:38 PM // 22:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrael_Eveningsong

Care to explain how I'm wrong?

The only selling point that Discordway has vs. other builds is that anyone can run it. That's it. You need to be an Assassin, doesn't matter whether primary or secondary (yup, that means any player can run it, including the gimped Warrior with a staff who can't even consistently run the full chain), and the 3 skills you use besides Assassin's Promise are PvE-rank skills that can be used by any Profession. That's the single reason that Discordway is "great".

Not just that.
Going by your logic anybody can run Sabway, any profession and yet it went absolete.
Certainly there are other factors that make Discord a superior concept in the meta.
Reason people run Discord is because it kills so fast, mobs that wouldve caused you trouble crumble under 4 sec knocklock and insane spike, minion wall, defense.

_Nihilist_ · Jul 03, 2009, 10:53 PM // 22:53

Can't do a Forum Search ATM (ugh, still) so I can't pull some of the better posts on why it's not as good as everyone makes it out to be.

Calling Discordway the most powerful/best is like saying someone who won the Special Olympics is the best - sure, they won, but everyone there was competing with some kind of difficulty to begin with. (paraphrased from another Forum Member here)

Sure, Discordway works, but as you've said time and again, Arkantos, it's PvE, you can beat it with an empty skillbar and non-max weapon.

Discord's prime selling point is that the caller uses AP+3 PvE only skills. Hardly any attribute investment is necessary, any caster can use it well, any character can use it, though maybe not as efficiently (as is the point made earlier of a W/A being the caller - it doesn't work as well).

Still, it's ignoring the fact that Discord is on a 2sec timer, the "spike" (which is more like a few mini-spikes because if you don't "spike" it's just pressure) is armor-mitigated damage, and when AP gets removed, that completely kills the only thing that keeps the Caller in the game. If the caller gets removed, one of the Heroes has to interrupt the Discord chain to get Conditions back rolling for Discord to work if the Caller didn't bring other options.

Discord is only "arguably" the best because you can go through most areas of the game with it. Not the fastest, not the best, but it can make it through with little variation of the skillbars. Doesn't mean it takes the cake.

Unreal Havoc · Jul 03, 2009, 11:14 PM // 23:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrael_Eveningsong

Discord is only "arguably" the best because you can go through most areas of the game with it. Not the fastest, not the best, but it can make it through with little variation of the skillbars. Doesn't mean it takes the cake.

Doesn't mean it blows either.

Sure there may be reasons why it's not the best, but then when it comes to having the best build for an area it becomes a specific build for that area rather than a general purpose one. Discordway is a general purpose build, and in that area it excels over many others.

While you did point out some weak points of a Discord setup a good Discordway player (one that actually pays attention to what he's doing) will already know these and prepare himself accordingly.

Also hex removal isn't as big an issue as people make out. If you know how to play Guild Wars it should never be an issue if you expect it and have half a clue how to play the game.

Arkantos · Jul 03, 2009, 11:42 PM // 23:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrael_Eveningsong

Can't do a Forum Search ATM (ugh, still) so I can't pull some of the better posts on why it's not as good as everyone makes it out to be.

Calling Discordway the most powerful/best is like saying someone who won the Special Olympics is the best - sure, they won, but everyone there was competing with some kind of difficulty to begin with. (paraphrased from another Forum Member here)

Sure, Discordway works, but as you've said time and again, Arkantos, it's PvE, you can beat it with an empty skillbar and non-max weapon.

Discord's prime selling point is that the caller uses AP+3 PvE only skills. Hardly any attribute investment is necessary, any caster can use it well, any character can use it, though maybe not as efficiently (as is the point made earlier of a W/A being the caller - it doesn't work as well).

Still, it's ignoring the fact that Discord is on a 2sec timer, the "spike" (which is more like a few mini-spikes because if you don't "spike" it's just pressure) is armor-mitigated damage, and when AP gets removed, that completely kills the only thing that keeps the Caller in the game. If the caller gets removed, one of the Heroes has to interrupt the Discord chain to get Conditions back rolling for Discord to work if the Caller didn't bring other options.

Discord is only "arguably" the best because you can go through most areas of the game with it. Not the fastest, not the best, but it can make it through with little variation of the skillbars. Doesn't mean it takes the cake.

You can beat PvE with an empty skillbar, and you can beat PvE with discordway. The difference is speed and effectiveness. Just because you can complete something with a bad build doesn't make a good build any worse. You don't have to be an AP caller to effectively run discordway, so that argument is pretty moot. It can go through areas faster than most other h/h builds, and it can go through areas better than most other h/h builds. It's arguably the best because it works better than the others.

Xenomortis · Jul 04, 2009, 01:33 AM // 01:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

It's arguably the best because it works better than the others.

I dislike the statement. The wording is such that I can't immediatly call it totally stupid however.

Discord will work for almost every player in almost every area. That does not automatically make it the best build for whatever job you have in mind.

_Nihilist_ · Jul 04, 2009, 02:47 AM // 02:47

It doesn't help that people use the word "arguably" to represent proof, when the word "arguable" means that something is subject to be proven:

Quote:

Originally Posted by dictionary.com

ar⋅gu⋅a⋅ble /ˈɑrgyuəbəl/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ahr-gyoo-uh-buhl] Show IPA
Use arguable in a Sentence
–adjective 1. susceptible to debate, challenge, or doubt; questionable: Whether this is the best plan of action or not is arguable.
2. susceptible to being supported by convincing or persuasive argument: Admirers agree that it is arguable he is the finest pianist of his generation.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Origin:
1605–15; argue + -able

Related forms:

ar⋅gu⋅a⋅bly, adverb

Even though the second usage seems to be more positive, being susceptible to being supported means that if there isn't supporting proof, the argument collapses.

I think it is arguable that Discord is "the best". I can't help it that people prefer to play with H/H instead of full groups of players, no more than I can guarantee that a person who is stuck playing H/H but wants to play with a full human party will be able to find other players to group with. Just because Discordway is better for H/H doesn't mean it's best overall.

Other than that, I'm tired of discussing Discordway. I've tried it, and it's not to my taste. The most efficient way of running Discordway seems to be with the Human Player running an AP Caller build (Click Here to see THAT particular debate in the Heroes + AI Forum), and personally, making every Profession run the same Build as an AP Caller doesn't make me want to use Discordway. What's the F'ing point to playing every Profession with the same 4 skills? AFAIC, that's a big reason not to.

"Look forward to GW2! Available Professions include Assassin, Dervish, Elementalist, Mesmer, Monk, Necromancer, Paragon, Ranger, Ritualist, Warrior, and Discordway Caller!" wtf-ever. Lame.

Carnivorous Cupcake · Jul 07, 2009, 05:16 PM // 17:16

I am commonly running my Warrior as a WE Scythe or Hundred Blades.

For my heroes I am using SS Necro, Minion Bomber with AoTL or ER and Resto/Chan Ritualist.

Works very well.

Tenebrae · Jul 07, 2009, 05:51 PM // 17:51

Ye , if you are coupling with more than 3 phys , sub blood on MM necro with Dark Bond and OoP is great too.

Carnivorous Cupcake · Jul 08, 2009, 10:27 AM // 10:27

Currently using http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...=1#post4732331 with my Warrior.