Curse

Paul Dawg · Aug 12, 2009, 06:47 AM // 06:47

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Originally Posted by traversc

I'm not sure why you're being so hostile. At least in this thread, I'm simply correcting something you said which was wrong: yes it is certainly possible to knocklock with an AP caller.

I'm sorry, but YMLaD followed by EVAS is not "knocklocking." That's two knockdowns maximum. Knocklocking is something like a warrior with brawling headbutt over and over. Hammer wars can knocklock too when they know what they're doing.

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Edit: also AP can USUALLY be your opening hex. Almost always. You also have the possibility of micro-ing PB on the hero.

You keep changing your story. The reality is that AP should never be your opening hex when you're facing a mob with casters that are still alive. Once the casters are gone and the foe isn't going to be healed substantially, it's finally OK to start opening with AP.

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Bolded part, UPS. Good players VQ an area once and then never visit it again (unless it's for farm or something.) Same with dungeons.

Lol, then by that logic I shouldn't be playing GW anymore, since I've done every HM zone, dungeon, and mission in the game. Good players like to maximize titles. That requires repeating certain areas. And sometimes they like redoing difficult areas just because the game is, you know, fun.

AtomicMew · Aug 12, 2009, 06:43 PM // 18:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Dawg

I'm sorry, but YMLaD followed by EVAS is not "knocklocking." That's two knockdowns maximum. Knocklocking is something like a warrior with brawling headbutt over and over. Hammer wars can knocklock too when they know what they're doing.

It certainly is knocklocking. It's knocklock for 4 seconds. Most wars can't knocklock indefinitely either, because of recharge on FGJ. 4 seconds is usually enough to kill the target, so 4 second of KD is indeed knocklock.

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You keep changing your story. The reality is that AP should never be your opening hex when you're facing a mob with casters that are still alive.

That's ridiculous. Not all casters have hex removal.

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Once the casters (you mean healers) are gone and the foe isn't going to be healed substantially, it's finally OK to start opening with AP.

I never disagreed.

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Lol, then by that logic I shouldn't be playing GW anymore, since I've done every HM zone, dungeon, and mission in the game. Good players like to maximize titles.

Yes

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That requires repeating certain areas.

Yes.

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And sometimes they like redoing difficult areas just because the game is, you know, fun.

No.
Just because you like doing difficult areas doesn't mean you're good or if you're good, that other good people like doing those areas. "Difficult areas good players like to do" is a flawed statement. Trite statement deserves trite response.

Paul Dawg · Aug 12, 2009, 09:47 PM // 21:47

The reason why you shouldn't make AP your opening hex isn't so much hex removal as the fact that mobs with multiple casters will be able to heal and prot your target so that he doesn't always die quickly. (And I mean casters, not just healers. If there are wardkeepers or flameshielders around, you need to kill them first too.)

And I'm done with the back-and-forth. It's all about e-peen. I'll respond to anyone else in this thread other than traversc. Bye.

AtomicMew · Aug 13, 2009, 12:36 AM // 00:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Dawg

The reason why you shouldn't make AP your opening hex isn't so much hex removal as the fact that mobs with multiple casters will be able to heal and prot your target so that he doesn't always die quickly. (And I mean casters, not just healers. If there are wardkeepers or flameshielders around, you need to kill them first too.)

This is preposterous. Most caster mobs aren't monk. Most mobs aren't dual class.

Warders don't even matter, since discord is armor ignoring and isn't melee.

Not only that, but this is tangent is WAY besides the point, so as to be nearly completely irrelevant. It doesn't change the fact that you can open up with AP the LARGE majority of the time in the majority of PvE.

12 seconds is a pretty long time, actually. If the problem is not hex removal, but (lack of) damage and damage mitigation, you likely have a bigger problem then getting AP removed. (Namely, your minion wall is gone and your necros are nearly drained).

If you don't believe me and think I am lying, that is your problem, but yes, I have basically done ALL of PvE with discordway save for a few areas which I can count on my hand.

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And I'm done with the back-and-forth. It's all about e-peen. I'll respond to anyone else in this thread other than traversc. Bye.

I tried to make it clear that this wasn't about me or you or this imaginary grudge you think I have against you... because I don't. (But maybe now I do, because you just can't admit you are wrong, which is infuriating.)

Whatever dude

Have fun always thinking that you are right.

Jeydra · Aug 13, 2009, 11:23 AM // 11:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by traversc

Not only that, but this is tangent is WAY besides the point, so as to be nearly completely irrelevant. It doesn't change the fact that you can open up with AP the LARGE majority of the time in the majority of PvE.

Not in the harder areas, but who cares. Let's try ... is there a reason why you would open with AP?

MercenaryKnight · Aug 13, 2009, 08:12 PM // 20:12

It's very easy to open with ap + ymlad. Just have a necromancer bring a fake hex. Suffering or shadow of fear can work quite easily to hit multiple targets and use up hex removal. Also if you bring pain inverter you can start with that instead.

It doesn't take much to use discordway while still in hex removal/ condition removal areas. A simple aoe hex and enfeebling blood will take care of all your needs most of the time.

AtomicMew · Aug 13, 2009, 08:45 PM // 20:45

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Originally Posted by Jeydra

Not in the harder areas, but who cares. Let's try ... is there a reason why you would open with AP?

The only other option I have is opening with MoP. (Barbs is slow.) MoP is only conditionally useful.

Jeydra · Aug 16, 2009, 04:09 PM // 16:09

Why would you open with a hex instead of EBVAS?

Pocketmancer · Aug 16, 2009, 04:27 PM // 16:27

There's nothing wrong with AP as an opening hex. There's also nothing wrong with using AP as a "closing" hex. Different things work in different places. Whether or not there are casters left or whatever, if you try to use one formulaic method to vanquish all areas, you're bound to meet failure. For anyone who's vanquished a good number of places with Discord Way, you might have already realized that through the mind-numbing process of Discord calling, not everything works through just one set order.

And for the love of god, there's many harder areas out there where you can still use AP as an opening hex and it'll still kick monster ass. Not all hard areas have foes with hex removal or heavy stacks of protection spells. Parts of the desolation for example.

syphonus · Aug 16, 2009, 04:41 PM // 16:41

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Originally Posted by Jeydra

Why would you open with a hex instead of EBVAS?

To meet discord condition faster.

Jeydra · Aug 20, 2009, 12:02 PM // 12:02

Why would you want to meet the Discord condition faster? Sure it lets your heroes cast Discord, but then surely you've given them something other than Discord to cast (Putrid Bile, Rotting Flesh, Enfeebling Blood, Shadow of Fear, etc)?

Daesu · Aug 20, 2009, 03:44 PM // 15:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

Why would you open with a hex instead of EBVAS?

If your enemies have hex removal, then I wouldn't recommend casting AP first to prime discord. Losing your AP to hex removal just sucks for the next 45s. Otherwise, using AP to prime discord is easy and lets you kill faster.

If there are hex removal, I would cast another hex first to waste their hex removal, then only cast AP when the target is about to die.