Curse

MasterSasori · Jan 25, 2010, 08:41 PM // 20:41

I'm presenting a different necromancer build other than Sabway/Discordway that I think has potential to be pretty good.

Build is designed for physical classes with a party of 4 or greater physical damage dealers.

The three heroes are OoV healer, Command Paragon, and AoTL rupter MM.

OoV Healer - N/Rt Blood 12+1+3, Restoration 10, Soul Reaping 8+1

Order of the Vampire
Strip Enchantment
Mark of Fury
Mend Body and Soul
Spirit Light
Protective was Kaolai
Signet of Lost Souls
Life

Command Paragon - P/W Spear 12+1+2, Leadership 10+1, Command 8+1

Stunning Strike/Soldier's Fury
"Go For The Eyes!"
Vicious Attack
Anthem of Disruption/Envy
Anthem of Weariness
"For Great Justice!"
Aggressive Refrain
Signet of Return

AotL rupter MM - N/Me Death 12+1+3, Soul Reaping 12+1, Domination 3

Aura of the Lich
Bone Minion
Putrid Bile
Power Return
Cry of Frustration
Masochism
Signet of Lost Souls
Death Nova

There are two other builds I want consideration for the OoV. One is the SoS rit as an alternative to MM, and a Earthshaker as an alternative to paragon.

SoS rit - Rt/X Channeling 12+1+3, Restoration 11+1, Spawning 6+1

Signet of Spirits
Bloodsong
Siphon Spirit
Splinter Weapon
Painful Bond
Spirit Light
Life/Recovery
Protective was Kaolai

Earthshaker - W/X Hammer 12+1+2, Strength 12+1, Something 3

Earthshaker
Pulverizing Smash
Crude Swing
Yeti Smash
Flail
Enraging Charge
"For Great Justice!"
Resurrection Signet

There are alot of Pros and Cons whether to use the para or war and the rit or necro. I would like some input on what would function better in terms of survivability/speed/damage output.

The way I see it, skinny version:

MM has reliable rupts, minion wall, can go /Mo for Aegis+PS but SoS rit has splinter, heals, synergy with paragon (anthems). Not sure which has better damage.

Para has affinity with other paras and SoS rits, daze+rupts and dw, support but Earthshaker has AoE KD and probably more damage.

Comments and Criticism are much welcome.

Shadowphoenix · Jan 25, 2010, 11:11 PM // 23:11

MMM as far as I see everything is ok, what I will suggest imho three things:

- In the Earthshaker I will replace FGJ! or Yeti Smash for a utility skill like Death Charge (with the new AI they use it correctly now or at least for me) and Grasping Earth even with 3 points in Earth magic is more than enough to help you ball the foes and smash them to the floor or replace the Resurrection Signet for a hard res.

- In the SoS Rit again imho I will up Restoration Magic to 12+1 or 12+2 (whichever you like it, if you choose the second one put him/her an +60HP staff or spear/shield for not making the first target and easy target to the foes) and putting the spawning power in 3+1 just to putting more efficiency in resto and channeling than survival of the spirits is just a matter of opinion (plz don't bash me in this one

)

- Almost forgot in the MM if the main focus is the use of OoV you need to drop Death Nova because is a necromancer enchantment and OoV will not work (just a reminder of the OoV: Full: For 5 seconds, whenever a party member who is not under the effects of another Necromancer enchantment hits a foe with physical damage, that party member steals up to 3...13 Health.)

I hope this suggestion will help you Master Sasori

Elon's Rose · Jan 26, 2010, 12:22 AM // 00:22

Really, to me this looks just like Racway but with an MM or SoS instead of a Motigon. That said, I don't like the Motigon in Racway and typically ran an MM anyway.

Your OotV build doesn't work because of Dark Fury. "For 5 seconds, whenever a party member who is not under the effects of another Necromancer enchantment hits a foe with physical damage, that party member steals up to 3...13 Health" which is why, on a team build requiring heavy adrenaline, OotV doesn't work and Order of Pain is generally superior.

Shadowphoenix · Jan 26, 2010, 12:37 AM // 00:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elon's Rose

Really, to me this looks just like Racway but with an MM or SoS instead of a Motigon. That said, I don't like the Motigon in Racway and typically ran an MM anyway.

Your OotV build doesn't work because of Dark Fury. "For 5 seconds, whenever a party member who is not under the effects of another Necromancer enchantment hits a foe with physical damage, that party member steals up to 3...13 Health" which is why, on a team build requiring heavy adrenaline, OotV doesn't work and Order of Pain is generally superior.

In Sasori OoV build he is not using Dark Fury he is using Mark of Fury instead which the last one (Mark of Fury) is a Hex spell and is ok the problem that I suggest before is Death Nova, if the the main use or main attraction of OoV is combining with minions it won't work because of Death Nova since the MM is putting Death Nova on all minions and when the orders will apply the Order of the Vampire will be useless because minions have Death Nova on it.

MasterSasori · Jan 26, 2010, 03:46 AM // 03:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elon's Rose

Your OotV build doesn't work because of Dark Fury. "For 5 seconds, whenever a party member who is not under the effects of another Necromancer enchantment hits a foe with physical damage, that party member steals up to 3...13 Health" which is why, on a team build requiring heavy adrenaline, OotV doesn't work and Order of Pain is generally superior.

I'm really not understanding this post because if you take a look at the set up, OoP and Dark Fury are nowhere present.

Care to explain how OoP is superior to OotV? OotV is life steal, not damage. Dark Fury is good but unnecessary on Paragons to keep up SY, and not useful enough on other physicals to outweight OotV. In addition, it's another source of life sac that makes the delicate build even more frail.

Yes this is similar to Racway because they both pursue damage output via necromancer enchantments and physical mediums.

EDIT: Retract OoP statement

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowphoenix

- In the Earthshaker I will replace FGJ! or Yeti Smash for a utility skill like Death Charge (with the new AI they use it correctly now or at least for me) and Grasping Earth even with 3 points in Earth magic is more than enough to help you ball the foes and smash them to the floor or replace the Resurrection Signet for a hard res.

Grasping earth has been a favorite of mine for hammers for a while. I just don't know what to take out for it. Yeti Smash is good because the AoE damage and FGJ! dishes out good adrenaline. Choices choices...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowphoenix

- In the SoS Rit again imho I will up Restoration Magic to 12+1 or 12+2 (whichever you like it, if you choose the second one put him/her an +60HP staff or spear/shield for not making the first target and easy target to the foes) and putting the spawning power in 3+1 just to putting more efficiency in resto and channeling than survival of the spirits is just a matter of opinion (plz don't bash me in this one

)

Having a superior rune on my rit already brings down the health by 75 HP. Adding a major rune is overkill IMO. The difference between 11+1 and 12+1 isn't enough to sac the extra spawning power needed for durability of spirits. In HM this is important.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowphoenix

- Almost forgot in the MM if the main focus is the use of OoV you need to drop Death Nova because is a necromancer enchantment and OoV will not work (just a reminder of the OoV: Full: For 5 seconds, whenever a party member who is not under the effects of another Necromancer enchantment hits a foe with physical damage, that party member steals up to 3...13 Health.)

Death Nova is meant for the minions and heroes rarely cast it on people. If it is cast on someone, it meant that person was about to kick the bucket and the hero applied the Death Nova in anticipation of the person dying.

Dabineh Deathbringer · Jan 26, 2010, 04:23 AM // 04:23

They look good to me. I'll try testing them tonight.

Shadowphoenix · Jan 26, 2010, 11:22 AM // 11:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterSasori

Death Nova is meant for the minions and heroes rarely cast it on people. If it is cast on someone, it meant that person was about to kick the bucket and the hero applied the Death Nova in anticipation of the person dying.

My bad on that, that was kinda a brainfart :P when I read again I understand that minions counts as allies and not as party members, sorry man

Nechrond · Jan 26, 2010, 11:33 AM // 11:33

My survivor (Dervish) uses a hero with Order of the Vampire. OotV rules for Dervishes.

Batteries · Jan 26, 2010, 02:03 PM // 14:03

This looks great.
Getting my heros sorted with it and trying it out.
Thanks!

Crassus Praetor · Jan 26, 2010, 03:58 PM // 15:58

OoP affects all party members too... anyway, I'll give it a go

EDIT: The atts don't seem to work on the SoS with a base of 12, 11, 7

MasterSasori · Jan 27, 2010, 01:29 AM // 01:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crassus Praetor

OoP affects all party members too... anyway, I'll give it a go

EDIT: The atts don't seem to work on the SoS with a base of 12, 11, 7

Retracted OoP statement.

Edited to 12 11 6 att spread.

Thank you for notice.

HigherMinion · Jan 27, 2010, 03:06 AM // 03:06

There's a problem I have with melee range players using caster heroes; They run in with you and get killed fast. It's happened alot in vqs when my assassin friend insists on bringing an OoV hero.

I have actually been using an OoV/resto build very similar to this for a long while; It's very strong healing in a heavy-phys damage team and with caster spears.

MasterSasori · Jan 27, 2010, 06:11 AM // 06:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

There's a problem I have with melee range players using caster heroes; They run in with you and get killed fast. It's happened alot in vqs when my assassin friend insists on bringing an OoV hero.

I have actually been using an OoV/resto build very similar to this for a long while; It's very strong healing in a heavy-phys damage team and with caster spears.

Then I have a question for you:

Would you think a N/Me rupter MM or a N/Mo Aegis+PS MM contribute more overall to the build? Of course this is difficult to say in general because each territory is different, but I've had great success with both, but choosing between of the two is difficult.

HigherMinion · Jan 27, 2010, 10:44 AM // 10:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterSasori

Then I have a question for you:

Would you think a N/Me rupter MM or a N/Mo Aegis+PS MM contribute more overall to the build? Of course this is difficult to say in general because each territory is different, but I've had great success with both, but choosing between of the two is difficult.

It's funny you should ask, as my N/Me Interrupt MB looks identical to that aswell. But I also use another build sometimes:

15 Death, 5 Blood, 9 SR, 9 Protection.
Signet of Removal
Animate Bone Minions
Dark Fury
Death Nova
Dwayna's Sorrow
Remove Hex
Aegis.
Signet of Lost Souls

Only difference I see in our hero builds is the E/Mo which I run does not appear. I only use my OoV hero in a team of atleast one other human.

Protective Spirit is always nice to have on a team, if you have no other prots, then bring PS on that MB; removing Dwayna's Sorrow probably for extra attributes.

Improvavel · Jan 27, 2010, 11:20 AM // 11:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

There's a problem I have with melee range players using caster heroes; They run in with you and get killed fast. It's happened alot in vqs when my assassin friend insists on bringing an OoV hero.

You need to flag at a certain distance, which will get annoying fast.

Alternatively, you can use an individual speed boost to increase distance before engaging (not that useful if you using party wide speed buffs).

I guess it is time for Anet change AI behaviour to try to keep a bit behind physical human players and around the same location of ranged human players.

HigherMinion · Jan 27, 2010, 11:26 AM // 11:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

You need to flag at a certain distance, which will get annoying fast.

Alternatively, you can use an individual speed boost to increase distance before engaging (not that useful if you using party wide speed buffs).
.

I can tell that statement's being aimed at me, lol.
You could give all your heroes longbows!

Athrun Feya · Jan 27, 2010, 12:48 PM // 12:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

Alternatively, you can use an individual speed boost to increase distance before engaging (not that useful if you using party wide speed buffs).

Something like Death's Charge should pretty much be staple in melee builds.

HigherMinion · Jan 27, 2010, 01:59 PM // 13:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Athrun Feya

Something like Death's Charge should pretty much be staple in melee builds.

Not really. I hate it when melee players put shadowsteps on their builds. Basically the FoWsc wannabes. Enraging Charge if anything, will get the job done. But also if you set the heroes to Guard and experiment with different weapons; they may react better with spears+focus/shield better.

I *think* if you call a foe, the AI will make the hero walk to the furthest distance away from the hero where it's possible to hit it with the spear. So midline distance would be fine, and give plenty of time to call targets.

Repetitive flagging can be a nuisance.

Xenomortis · Jan 27, 2010, 02:55 PM // 14:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

There's a problem I have with melee range players using caster heroes; They run in with you and get killed fast. It's happened alot in vqs when my assassin friend insists on bringing an OoV hero.

Stick your backline heroes to defense and give them a ranged weapon. They don't spend much time attacking and it stops them following you too much.
It's still an annoyance though.
Note that spear range is less than casting range (which is equal to wand range).

You could try giving your heroes a flatbow, but then you can't give them a shield or focus.

MasterSasori · Jan 27, 2010, 05:43 PM // 17:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

It's funny you should ask, as my N/Me Interrupt MB looks identical to that aswell. But I also use another build sometimes:

15 Death, 5 Blood, 9 SR, 9 Protection.
Signet of Removal
Animate Bone Minions
Dark Fury
Death Nova
Dwayna's Sorrow
Remove Hex
Aegis.
Signet of Lost Souls

Only difference I see in our hero builds is the E/Mo which I run does not appear. I only use my OoV hero in a team of atleast one other human.

Protective Spirit is always nice to have on a team, if you have no other prots, then bring PS on that MB; removing Dwayna's Sorrow probably for extra attributes.

I don't like Dwayna's sorrow as I don't find the extra heal really to be necessary. OoV is enough keep red bars up. What I feel missing is the PS and to an extent Aegis. I don't feel Aegis too much because of Minion Wall + the OoV, but a widespread AoE from a boss - I still feel that.

I also find Remove Hex to be subpar to Convert Hexes. CH is just so much better because when hexes are cast in PvE, they are piled on and in general, hexes aren't really much of a problem. It's stuff like Soothing that is really dangerous. SoR is also good but I question its use as an elite. Seems superfluous in alot of cases and I'm still looking for the elite that fits my MM best. Choices choices...

As you stated, Dark Fury doesn't work with OoV and I don't find the extra adren to be that necessary. SY can be kept up to a reasonable degree with good mobility.