Curse

Lusciious · Feb 11, 2010, 09:42 AM // 09:42

Quote:

What do you mean? The heroes stop maintaining it? You're supposed to disable it, then click on the icon to cast on the target.

Yeah i know how to maintain an enchant on myself . but weren't you guys talking about someone saying it's possible to disable an maintained enchantment after casting it on you ? or something like that ? or did i get that wrong ?

it can tank though .

upier · Feb 11, 2010, 10:07 AM // 10:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lusciious

@ the point about disabling AFTER micro-ing it, it doesn't work . once you cast it, it gets stripped immediately . unless your reflexes is really fast . but i still dont think it'd work .

I think they actually reworked the AI.
I normally run with SoH disabled and micro it - but I was doing the wurm areas so I had to enable it (because otherwise you end up with a disabled wurm skill) and once we got out of the wurms I forgot to disable it again. And funny thing - once I engaged in battle, the dude put SoH on my guy and kept it up. Once the fighting ended - he stopped maintaining it. Not my perfect scenario (since I'd rather have it up at all times) - but at least they know when you actually need it and they keep it up in those cases.

Sankt Hallvard · Feb 11, 2010, 11:30 AM // 11:30

Just wondering if any of you have any experiences with how heroes deal with:

ff/plague sending. Do they use this as their primary condi removal, do they know what conditions to send where? If coupled with a skill like mbs will they ff but remove it with mbs before using ps or do they realise ps is the better choice in almost all situations?

icy veins. Do they use this often enough? I run this on my n/rt healer and in my experience it's not nearly used as often as I'd like.

Not interested in theorycrafting, nitpicking or assumptions. Only if you have actually tested any of this and enough to have an opinion of it should you comment. I'm asking because I keep reading in this thread that heroes can't handle a skill like MoP. Where do the heroes cast MoP that's not right? Do they spam it on recharge, don't use it often enough? Cast it on the melee players target or on the minions' target?

Thanks!

Lusciious · Feb 11, 2010, 11:39 AM // 11:39

nope . apparently if i don't disable it, they cancel it .

like mentioned earlier, conditions are not really a problem unless it's mass daze / blind. if you want to run foul feast, run it on a mm / mb . get infuse condition .

IV is bad . elemental damage sucks in HM . Putrid biles does the job better .

Heroes cast on targets who you call . Heroes's AI is to spam skills but sometimes, heroes just don't know how to use em properly . e.g. warmongers weapon.

HigherMinion · Feb 11, 2010, 12:06 PM // 12:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sankt Hallvard

Just wondering if any of you have any experiences with how heroes deal with:

ff/plague sending. Do they use this as their primary condi removal, do they know what conditions to send where? If coupled with a skill like mbs will they ff but remove it with mbs before using ps or do they realise ps is the better choice in almost all situations?

icy veins. Do they use this often enough? I run this on my n/rt healer and in my experience it's not nearly used as often as I'd like.

Not interested in theorycrafting, nitpicking or assumptions. Only if you have actually tested any of this and enough to have an opinion of it should you comment. I'm asking because I keep reading in this thread that heroes can't handle a skill like MoP. Where do the heroes cast MoP that's not right? Do they spam it on recharge, don't use it often enough? Cast it on the melee players target or on the minions' target?

Thanks!

If FF is the only condition removal on the build, it will be the primary condition removal, er. Never ran with Sending in PvE, but let's just say that if there's a paragon in the team using Aggressive Refrain, your necro will pretty much spam FF on recharge to get rid of the Cracked Armour.

Heroes will use Icy Veins like they would Putrid Bile. Only in a mob and spammed on recharge.

Not sure about the MB and other hero fighting over condition removal; but seeing as FF is 1/4 casting, they would win.

Sankt Hallvard · Feb 11, 2010, 12:29 PM // 12:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

If FF is the only condition removal on the build, it will be the primary condition removal, er. Never ran with Sending in PvE, but let's just say that if there's a paragon in the team using Aggressive Refrain, your necro will pretty much spam FF on recharge to get rid of the Cracked Armour.

Heroes will use Icy Veins like they would Putrid Bile. Only in a mob and spammed on recharge.

Not sure about the MB and other hero fighting over condition removal; but seeing as FF is 1/4 casting, they would win.

ff with its nerfed recharge can no longer handle the job alone so I also run mbs(on the same bar) and smite condi on another guy. Also run a paragon with AR which is exactly why I want ff/ps because I can turn a drawback into an asset(aoe cracked armor is ftw). I don't care if she(livia o baby) spams ff, that's exactly what I want her to do. I'm more worried if she removes it with mbs rather than ps and whether she knows that she should send a drawn blind to melee rather than the monk boss I'm currently pounding on..

Are you sure about the putrid bile comment? Cause I think they use putrid bile quite well but never see iv being spammed on recharge. Only in a mob? With a 5s recharge I'd like her to cast it for the initial dmg effect regardless.

@Lusciious; saying elemental dmg is bad in HM because they have higher armor also means you think physical dmg is bad in HM. The armor-ignoring dmg sources available for heroes are limited anyway. And I'm not particularly interested in HM so for the most part iv is in theory one of the strongest skills on my heroes.

HigherMinion · Feb 11, 2010, 12:37 PM // 12:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sankt Hallvard

@Lusciious; saying elemental dmg is bad in HM because they have higher armor also means you think physical dmg is bad in HM. The armor-ignoring dmg sources available for heroes are limited anyway. And I'm not particularly interested in HM so for the most part iv is in theory one of the strongest skills on my heroes.

First, try It's Just a Flesh Wound on your MB; and take out all the other condition removal in the team for hex removal. See what you think.

Secondly, about elemental damage being bad in Hard Mode- this is true almost everywhere. And where you say there aren't many buffs for our physicals, there are even less for casters. No BuH, no Intensity, no, er, something else probably that I've forgotten... Ebsoh, that's it.

Physicals have Mark of Pain, Barbs, Orders if that tickles your fancy. And when using human versions of elementalists or, for example assassins, the assassins with Asura Scan, By Ulral's and an IAS will be autoattacking for more damage than the eles cast.

Lusciious · Feb 11, 2010, 12:42 PM // 12:42

Physical damage is indeed bad in HM . Add MoP, Barbs, Orders, Splinter, SoH, EBSoH, GDW, BUH .

How much can you add to elemental damage ?

Sankt Hallvard · Feb 11, 2010, 12:55 PM // 12:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

First, try It's Just a Flesh Wound on your MB; and take out all the other condition removal in the team for hex removal. See what you think.

Yeah I do like ijafw but can't fit it for 2 reasons: It requires me to run /p and it's elite. I need my secondaries to be /mo for hex removal or /rt for resto, channeling and death pact. (monk resses offer bad alternatives)

I know all about the physical buffs and I use it as the main source of dmg, I was just pointing out that being elemental dmg alone is no different from physical. It is quite sad, though, that the elite version of putrid bile is actually worse than the non-elite..

HigherMinion · Feb 11, 2010, 01:36 PM // 13:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sankt Hallvard

Yeah I do like ijafw but can't fit it for 2 reasons: It requires me to run /p and it's elite. I need my secondaries to be /mo for hex removal or /rt for resto, channeling and death pact. (monk resses offer bad alternatives)
.

You can use another hero for that, of course. N/P can use signet of return or We Shall Return! Which is a lol res. Also Fall Back on an MB speed things up when running around in vanquishes, and heals minions also while moving. You have basically one slot free for another Command shout, Stand Your Ground or something similar if you don't have SY in the party.

Improvavel · Feb 11, 2010, 02:05 PM // 14:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sankt Hallvard

Yeah I do like ijafw but can't fit it for 2 reasons: It requires me to run /p and it's elite. I need my secondaries to be /mo for hex removal or /rt for resto, channeling and death pact. (monk resses offer bad alternatives)

If you can't go /p but can go /mo you can run Restore conditions which is pretty similar.

It isn't like any of the Minion Master elites is that great anyway (well OoU is pretty good) - Jagged Bones is ok vs AoE and areas with low body count, but animate shambling horror will do the same, AoTL is good in areas with low body count but rather than that its pretty meh too.

Sankt Hallvard · Feb 11, 2010, 02:28 PM // 14:28

I appreciate your suggestions guys. RC/IJAFW might be tested if I come across areas with serious condition-spam. They're still elite tho and I feel I might be better off with slotting a 2nd copy of mbs for most areas, and I still haven't given up on ff/ps(w/cracked armor from para) since it offers some offense in the same package.

We shall return! looks interesting now with the pvp/pve split but would need to be disabled and microed to not preempt dps usage. Fall back is solid, already have one copy in the build but have used 2 before and might do again.

Jagged bones is IMO the best necro elite and will unlikely leave my herobars. It fits my idea of a pressure/machine build very well. Replacing dying minions with new ones that deal and soak dmg, inflict bleeding and blow up upon their 2nd death. Fueling sr as well.

Lusciious · Feb 11, 2010, 02:37 PM // 14:37

Recovery is good if you have a slot on your n/rt bar .

IMO, i find AotlL better in areas with more corpses. if not, i'd stick with jagged bones. you cannot deny the fact that lv 21 minions = very nice

Improvavel · Feb 11, 2010, 03:54 PM // 15:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lusciious

Recovery is good if you have a slot on your n/rt bar .

IMO, i find AotlL better in areas with more corpses. if not, i'd stick with jagged bones. you cannot deny the fact that lv 21 minions = very nice

All this depends of several factors - builds/area/ if the team is h/h or just heroes or some humans and heroes/playstyle/etc.

I bet if you are a warrior you won't enjoy much be blinded all the time, for example. Maybe Sight Beyond Sight is enough, maybe it isn't.

Most of the times it is a compromise.

In the end it just has to make sense and allow you to accomplish your goals in a fashion you deem fun .

MasterSasori · Feb 11, 2010, 06:43 PM // 18:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sankt Hallvard

I appreciate your suggestions guys. RC/IJAFW might be tested if I come across areas with serious condition-spam. They're still elite tho and I feel I might be better off with slotting a 2nd copy of mbs for most areas, and I still haven't given up on ff/ps(w/cracked armor from para) since it offers some offense in the same package.

Condition removal is already worthless as it is. Using two slots is just bad unless you really need removal. Which in that case IJaFW or Draw condition is just better though FF is attractive. Plaque sending is just worthless. They just send it to whatever and even if the condition sucks like bleeding.

If you have widespread issues, then a mod on a shield + recovery is usually enough.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sankt Hallvard

Jagged bones is IMO the best necro elite and will unlikely leave my herobars. It fits my idea of a pressure/machine build very well. Replacing dying minions with new ones that deal and soak dmg, inflict bleeding and blow up upon their 2nd death. Fueling sr as well.

It depends on the rest of your build on whether or not JB is best. Care to share?

Sankt Hallvard · Feb 11, 2010, 07:17 PM // 19:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterSasori

It depends on the rest of your build on whether or not JB is best. Care to share?

2 physicals(human players preferably)
1 imbagon(spear of fury, fall back)
1 curse/channeling
1 smiter(mo/me - RoJ/SoH)
2 mm's (both with the same core: jagged, minions, nova, sols, putrid - one of them /rt for wow, sp.light, dps the other /mo for aegis, d.sorrow, curehex/removehex)
1 iv healer (ff/ps)

Plague sending is not working as well as I could wish, but ff works well. Yeah condition removal is normally not an issue, I will slot a 2nd mbs or recovery if it does become a problem. I'm just a little disappointed ff/ps is not working out as good in practice as on paper.

Lusciious · Feb 11, 2010, 10:16 PM // 22:16

I can bet with you that the curses hero fail to use his curses properly .

if you have 2 human physicals, how can you get an imbagon on a hero ? an imbagon itself would be a physical .

IMO, RoJ is only useful in undead areas e.g. SoO . But SoH is pretty good . Why SoH on the RoJ monk ? no energy problems ? wheres prot spirit on your mm n/mo ?

Sankt Hallvard · Feb 11, 2010, 11:00 PM // 23:00

How do you use curses correctly?

Imbagon is a human player obviously. Sorry about the confusion, I meant 2 melees not physicals.

RoJ bad, ok gotcha. SoH pretty good? lol, k. He can run into energy problems, but usually manages fine.(pdrain, cast.sig, no RoD) Don't run prot spirit.

Lusciious · Feb 11, 2010, 11:44 PM // 23:44

As in, heroes don't use it properly unless you target and they don't spam it on recharge .

How i use curses ? I'm a MoP Nuker . I know how to use curses

Start with N for SR for unlimited energy management . can maintain up to 4

MasterSasori · Feb 12, 2010, 12:50 AM // 00:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sankt Hallvard

2 physicals(human players preferably)
1 imbagon(spear of fury, fall back)
1 curse/channeling
1 smiter(mo/me - RoJ/SoH)
2 mm's (both with the same core: jagged, minions, nova, sols, putrid - one of them /rt for wow, sp.light, dps the other /mo for aegis, d.sorrow, curehex/removehex)
1 iv healer (ff/ps)

Plague sending is not working as well as I could wish, but ff works well. Yeah condition removal is normally not an issue, I will slot a 2nd mbs or recovery if it does become a problem. I'm just a little disappointed ff/ps is not working out as good in practice as on paper.

Few comments

I like to run Zeal instead of RoJ for good energy. RoJ is overhyped.

Drop WoW because it blows.

I still suggest running PS on the prot hero. It will matter when SY or TNTF is down. I think Dwayna's Sorrow is overrated. Much better than remove/cure hex is Convert Hex. It's worth it.

As for JB or AotL, you could try a mixture of both. No need for a billion minions with two JB. AotL can provide you with an early minion and higher death magic.

btw I don't know wut your curse/channel is