Curse

Lusciious · Feb 08, 2010, 02:15 PM // 14:15

still .. i prefer the prots . thanks for the suggestion though .

maxxfury · Feb 08, 2010, 05:54 PM // 17:54

One small point people seem to have just missed...

Strength of honour DOESNT work with ranged phys! (bow/spear)

Only on the melee physical (sword/axe/hammer/daggers/scythe)

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

It's not an extra 17-18 damage; it's an extra 17-18 damage PER melee character you give it to.

And to add to this, its an extra 17-18 per toon per ATTACK. And a phys will attack at what speed? 1.33? 1.75? before Ias.
Thats add up big time! especially if you also have a gdw around too :P

MasterSasori · Feb 08, 2010, 06:25 PM // 18:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lusciious

A MB does what it is supposed to do, sacrifice minions . Dwayna's Sorrow takes advantage of that . I call this good synergy . In long matches or if there happen to be massive AoE, minions die before they are near the opponent . At least the heals would help heal the party, thus negating some damage from AoE spells . and because you can create minions quickly, it abuses it even further .

Yes it is synergy but the extra life isn't useful from what I've experienced. I rather have something that contributes more than just additional life gain.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lusciious

don't forget that by transferring conditions to your minions, you're helping them to die as well . and no/little condition is always good .

Two. Slots.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lusciious

Rupts are useless in HM . Heroes don't know which skills are elite which skills aren't . they interrupt whenever they can . IMO, this is not worth the attribute spread .

Depends on the area. If you're worried about att spread, the MM I run has 3 in domination. You don't need a spread of anything. Power return + Cry of Frustration keeps alot of spells down, more so than what people give credit to. It's not as if the MM is doing much either.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lusciious

Your build focuses too much on defence . Imbagon ? 2 semi healers ? a protter ? There is not much damage . Why not get a P/N MoP Support ?

My MM is normally a N/P for Fallback and We shall return or N/Me for Power Return and Cry of Frustration. If you ran an Imbagon build then you would know that there is very little room on the bar. P/N MoP doesn't sound enticing at all. You can't abuse it and the att spread must be atrocious.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lusciious

if you have an imbagon, you don't need 2 healers to keep your party up . infact, an ER infuser and a motigon (it's on pvx . a support paragon ) would be good enough .

Don't ever suggest a motigon to anyone. Ever.

The SoS/MM + OoV provides alot of damage and defense. Sure it doesn't go as fast as something that abuses AP-MoP, but I don't see a better alternative.

An ER isn't necessary on this team because as you said, there is already godly defense. The only thing to improve is the offense. Everything I use contributes to the offense in some way. Imbagons kill slowly and that's just the way it is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lusciious

I have MoP, Splinter, OoV . That's alot of physical support .

I can't use MoP. Heros are complete shit using it and I don't like to micro anything. And where am I going to put it? On my MM? Splinter and OoV are both on there, both at 16.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lusciious

I have 2 aegis, 2 prot spirit and spammable prots e.g. rof and shield guardian to push red bars up and massive aoe heals from dwayna's sorrow and shield guardian and OoV .

And you're criticizing me for too much defense?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lusciious

I also have a lot of minions to proc MoP and barbs . And i have no problems with conditions and my res heals the whole party .

You're a necro. Don't compare it to a Imbagon. Conditions don't do jackshit in PvE unless you run into 20 mandragors or get hit by massive blind/daze.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lusciious

your build has unrivalled defences, armour ignoring damage if you micro properly, physical support e.g. OoV and splinter weapon, heals to push red bars up, rupts ? prots ? and daze support ? Alot of minions but for what ? just for sacrifice ?

I don't need to micro. My minions do good damage and if you kill it, you're going to eat a Nova. Defense is the last thing I worry about.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lusciious

My prots are comparable to your unrivalled defences and the lack of prots unless you're running N/Mo which doesn't really add much since it's only aegis and prot spirit and because i've got 2 aegis, 2 prot spirit, spirit bond, rof, shield guardian. My physical support is better . I have barbs and MoP . you don't . you can push red bars up, so can i . i can even negate damage at the same time . you might have more wide party heal . i have shield guardian, dwayna's sorrow, OoV . you have life, pwk or support from paragon and oov . you have rupts i don't but what's the point of rupting when you can kill ? if he doesn't die fast, chances of you dying is increased . i'm somewhat immune to conditions . are you ?

Why are you comparing your build to mine? You're a N/A, I'm a P/W. We function totally oppositely and we make the best use of what we got. We're not comparing apples and oranges. We're comparing chimpanzees and motorboats. But you insist on comparing..

You have ER + another protter. I have SY, TNTF, and red bars up.

Your dwayna's sorrow is crap on my build. Maybe its good for you cuz your minions seem to die but mines don't and if they do, I get more damage. For negating damage, SY and TNTF is everything I need.

Rupts are nice because my damage isn't super high.

2 MBAS says hi.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lusciious

I guess if yours works then it's good . I like mine the way it is

Oh and, my MoP is spammable .

I like making comparisons to see how i can improve .

I don't see how you can improve on comparing builds that work differently because of totally different character. I run a N/A myself and my build is very similar to Higher Minion but he has more experience. Compare to his instead because you are barking up the wrong tree.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lusciious

I will take into consideration the fact that FF and Infuse is a waste of 2 skills . I'll see if there are any more optionals worth using over them .

I'd consider FF and Infuse over 2 resurrection spells.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lusciious

i won't use rupts cause they're both good and bad on heroes in a way that they don't interrupt good skills . they interrupt everything .

If you have Power Return + Cry of Frustration, you're going to be hitting alot of things. Much more than what people are giving credit to.

Lusciious · Feb 08, 2010, 10:54 PM // 22:54

Quote:

Strength of honour DOESNT work with ranged phys! (bow/spear)

Only on the melee physical (sword/axe/hammer/daggers/scythe)

Thanks for the information .

But melee henchmen do not always attack at 33% IAS .

Quote:

Depends on the area. If you're worried about att spread, the MM I run has 3 in domination. You don't need a spread of anything. Power return + Cry of Frustration keeps alot of spells down, more so than what people give credit to. It's not as if the MM is doing much either.

right . i was running domination on 10 . brought along power spike because of the damage . i guess you use them for the interrupts and not the damage huh ?

Quote:

P/N MoP doesn't sound enticing at all. You can't abuse it and the att spread must be atrocious.

says who ? you've got good energy management with shouts and chants as long as the party stays together . drop spear mastery to 8+1 and put 10 into curses .

Quote:

Don't ever suggest a motigon to anyone. Ever.

What's wrong with it ? it works .

Quote:

I can't use MoP. Heros are complete shit using it and I don't like to micro anything.

that's true .

Quote:

And you're criticizing me for too much defense?

SY reduces 82.5% damage . is my 50% block or 10% prot spirit too much ? with such a high damage reduction . there is no need to bring aegis or prot spirit . But since i don't run an imbagon, i need these skills to ensure that i don't die . No i am not criticizing you for too much defence . i'm criticizing you for too little offence .

Quote:

I don't need to micro

Quote:

Anyway in my build I don't run the ER and I just go with SoS rit which I micromanage because xandra couldn't win an IQ match against cheese.

deny much ?

Quote:

I can't use MoP. Heros are complete shit using it and I don't like to micro anything. And where am I going to put it? On my MM? Splinter and OoV are both on there, both at 16.

Wow . You really like big numbers huh ? Is your highest attribute always at 16 ?

Whats MBAS ?

Quote:

Maybe its good for you cuz your minions seem to die but mines don't and if they do, I get more damage.

It's not like as if if my minions die, i don't get more damage .

Quote:

I don't see how you can improve on comparing builds that work differently because of totally different character. I run a N/A myself and my build is very similar to Higher Minion but he has more experience. Compare to his instead because you are barking up the wrong tree.

I'm not comparing my build against yours . I'm comparing my heroes build against yours . You have a MB . I have a MB . Is it not okay / wrong / not worthy to compare my MB against your MB ? Is yours too good and me not worthy of it or is yours too weak so you don't want me to compare it ? You have an Imbagon . I have my ER Protter . Did i compare my ER Protter to any of your healers ? no . I am a MoP Nuker . Did i compare myself to any of your heroes ?

also, please don't start attack me with insults such as bark . if you don't like it, you don't have to reply .

Quote:

I'd consider FF and Infuse over 2 resurrection spells.

I don't see why you think FF and Infuse is a waste of skill slots . you need more offence . that's your problem . you don't even bother about blinds . that's your achilles heels . once you're blinded, you won't last long against 1-2 mobs . yet you don't seem to even care about it ? yes . i like being blind for 10 seconds and 10 seconds later, oh yes! i'm blind again ? is that what you're trying to tell me ? You admit that you don't do enough damage so chances are, you won't kill a group in less than 20 seconds .

Quote:

If you have Power Return + Cry of Frustration, you're going to be hitting alot of things. Much more than what people are giving credit to.

This is the only thing i found useful in your reply . and the other part where you said about higher minion being a n/a and i should compare myself to him .

Just a suggestion. You're not perfect. Here i am trying to help both of us improve by giving suggestions and you don't seem to appreciate the shit i do . might as well not do it anymore don't you again ? Please don't tell me "I didn't ask you to do so." If you do, you're just showing all of us your selfish nature. I use a "i wanna friend you" tone and yet you use a "cmon ! wanna fight ?!" to reply. Oh and if you don't remember what you wrote earlier, it doesn't hurt to open another tab . please stop contradicting yourself .

Quote:

If you have Power Return + Cry of Frustration, you're going to be hitting alot of things. Much more than what people are giving credit to.

and if you consider this to be offence ? well .. i've got nothing more to say . interrupts are not helping you to damage . it's helping you to enforce your defence . "yes! CoF just did 15 damage to everyone . Take that you group of w/e monsters."

maxxfury · Feb 09, 2010, 12:44 AM // 00:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by lusciious

Thanks for the information .

But melee henchmen do not always attack at 33% IAS .

Hence i put 1.33 or 1.75 which is the attack speed WITHOUT an ias.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Attack_speed

Lusciious · Feb 09, 2010, 02:56 AM // 02:56

precisely so but no what i meant is that because they don't attack at 25 / 33 % IAS, SoH is not maximized to it's fullest potential. sorry if i caused any misunderstanding .

maxxfury · Feb 09, 2010, 03:02 AM // 03:02

Same deal as Oov, gdw, ect, without Ias they arent maximised either..
but it still stands that soh is a beast as the bonus damage is armour ignoring.

Lusciious · Feb 09, 2010, 03:51 AM // 03:51

Oh yeah .. forgot all about that xD

well i've got nothing to argue about this . I just don't think that extra 20 damage or 40 is worth my aegis and prot spirit . maybe if it was 60 then i might consider lol . but yeah .. a good offence is a good defence . i'll try it when i get home later .

HigherMinion · Feb 09, 2010, 09:08 AM // 09:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lusciious

Oh yeah .. forgot all about that xD

well i've got nothing to argue about this . I just don't think that extra 20 damage or 40 is worth my aegis and prot spirit . maybe if it was 60 then i might consider lol . but yeah .. a good offence is a good defence . i'll try it when i get home later .

Are you not already using an ER hero? If so then your Prots are safe.

Lusciious · Feb 09, 2010, 10:46 AM // 10:46

Is 1 aegis enough for HM ?

The only thing that kills me in HM is bad positioning + aoe spells or over aggro due to warrior henchmen .

Something i've noticed a lot yesterday . Whenever my nec uses OoV, she immediately dies . Happened more than 3 times yesterday . She sacced 100+ hp and got hurt by a spike .

edit: also, are interrupts worth using in HM ?

Sankt Hallvard · Feb 09, 2010, 01:24 PM // 13:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lusciious

edit: also, are interrupts worth using in HM ?

I would assume that since monsters cast twice as fast it will make interrupts, even by hero AI, that much harder - probably more than doubling the chance of failure. Given that heroes interrupt quite randomly I wouldn't take an interrupt just for the interrupt, but if it serves another purpose like pdrain for energy or cry for the aoe-rupt it might be worthwhile still.

HigherMinion · Feb 09, 2010, 01:28 PM // 13:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lusciious

Is 1 aegis enough for HM ?

The only thing that kills me in HM is bad positioning + aoe spells or over aggro due to warrior henchmen .

Something i've noticed a lot yesterday . Whenever my nec uses OoV, she immediately dies . Happened more than 3 times yesterday . She sacced 100+ hp and got hurt by a spike .

edit: also, are interrupts worth using in HM ?

You are a necromancer using MoP nuker, correct? You should really be using Reckless Haste if you really worry about the damage from physicals. There's not too much threat as whoever takes damage will be protted up and Vekk will camp them with Infuse.

17% of the hero's life was 100 health? Not too sure about that.

Interrupts are only worth it in certain areas with either pesky res skills, high-damage skills such as searing flames, etc... I generally haven't found it necessary.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sankt Hallvard

I would assume that since monsters cast twice as fast it will make interrupts, even by hero AI, that much harder - probably more than doubling the chance of failure. Given that heroes interrupt quite randomly I wouldn't take an interrupt just for the interrupt, but if it serves another purpose like pdrain for energy or cry for the aoe-rupt it might be worthwhile still.

No... Heroes never fail at interrupting. It's their AI, it says something like this:
Monster activates spell.
Hero has spell to stop monster using spell.
Hero Interrupts within milliseconds of the foe casting, this process takes no time at all to occur and it will always work.

That's because bots don't have bad days, they don't get groggy, and they're always alert. They MUST do it or ###SYNTAX ERROR REDO_FROM_START###

Lusciious · Feb 09, 2010, 01:51 PM // 13:51

okay maybe not 100. 74hp.

How is it that in Jade Sea (HM), right outside leviathan pits

when i use

me mop nuker - mop, rigor mortis, barbs, enfeebling blood, ap, evas, fh!, mindbender

1) OoV nec - oov, strip enchantment, mark of fury, aegis, prot spirit, sols, renew life

2) aotl MB - aotl, putrid bile, animate bone minions, death nova, masochism, infuse condition, foul feast, splinter weapon.

3) ER prot - er, aor, ps, aegis, sb, rof, sg, infuse

1 healer 2 ranger and 1 warrior hench

if my warrior hench over aggros by accident, i'd die.

if er gets messed up e.g. interrupted / stripped, i'd die.

If i run, OoV Restoration instead so pwk, mend body and soul, spirit light, life .

i can last longer. i don't die as much but sometimes, the same things (over aggro, er being messed up) would cause my party to die but it doesn't happen as frequent.

When i dropped OoV nec and took SoS Restoration rit and dropped aotl for discord, i lasted much longer . didn't even die when i was mobbed by 2 groups and a boss . in fact no one died . like as if aotl was a wasted elite .

why ? higher restoration ? my sos rit build is sos, painful bond, spirit siphon, splinter weapon, pwk, life, mend body and soul, spirit light.

also, i realised that in HM, my spirits attack more because enemies like to come and attack my backliners where my spirits are.

does physical teams not perform as well as caster teams in HM ?

I like seeing numbers . i don't get to see numbers if i go a caster oriented team .

edit: is it worth using dismiss condition instead of infuse on my er protter ? on gww, it says that heroes use this skill to heal more than for it's condition removal ?

edit2: maybe i should just go 2 humans + 6 hero vanq instead of h/h ?

HigherMinion · Feb 09, 2010, 03:43 PM // 15:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lusciious

okay maybe not 100. 74hp.

How is it that in Jade Sea (HM), right outside leviathan pits

when i use

me mop nuker - mop, rigor mortis, barbs, enfeebling blood, ap, evas, fh!, mindbender

1) OoV nec - oov, strip enchantment, mark of fury, aegis, prot spirit, sols, renew life

2) aotl MB - aotl, putrid bile, animate bone minions, death nova, masochism, infuse condition, foul feast, splinter weapon.

3) ER prot - er, aor, ps, aegis, sb, rof, sg, infuse

1 healer 2 ranger and 1 warrior hench

if my warrior hench over aggros by accident, i'd die.

if er gets messed up e.g. interrupted / stripped, i'd die.

If i run, OoV Restoration instead so pwk, mend body and soul, spirit light, life .

i can last longer. i don't die as much but sometimes, the same things (over aggro, er being messed up) would cause my party to die but it doesn't happen as frequent.

When i dropped OoV nec and took SoS Restoration rit and dropped aotl for discord, i lasted much longer . didn't even die when i was mobbed by 2 groups and a boss . in fact no one died . like as if aotl was a wasted elite .

why ? higher restoration ? my sos rit build is sos, painful bond, spirit siphon, splinter weapon, pwk, life, mend body and soul, spirit light.

also, i realised that in HM, my spirits attack more because enemies like to come and attack my backliners where my spirits are.

does physical teams not perform as well as caster teams in HM ?

I like seeing numbers . i don't get to see numbers if i go a caster oriented team .

edit: is it worth using dismiss condition instead of infuse on my er protter ? on gww, it says that heroes use this skill to heal more than for it's condition removal ?

edit2: maybe i should just go 2 humans + 6 hero vanq instead of h/h ?

Perhaps you're not luring enough, or calling properly. Try changing your tactics a bit, next time you die.

maxxfury · Feb 09, 2010, 04:47 PM // 16:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lusciious

edit: is it worth using dismiss condition instead of infuse on my er protter ? on gww, it says that heroes use this skill to heal more than for it's condition removal ?

Mend ailment is better used by heroes, as a condition remover..as they use it purely to remove a condition...
With dismiss they spam it on people who are enchanted whether they have a condition or not...
And THAT takes their attention away from using infuse as their heal..and they get distracted easy :P

Khomet Si Netjer · Feb 09, 2010, 06:44 PM // 18:44

For those of you looking for a good physical team for hardmode, I've worked up a new team build... it's meant for paragons but you could mod it for most physicals.

http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/User:Khomet/Kway

Sankt Hallvard · Feb 09, 2010, 07:17 PM // 19:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

No... Heroes never fail at interrupting. It's their AI, it says something like this:
Monster activates spell.
Hero has spell to stop monster using spell.
Hero Interrupts within milliseconds of the foe casting, this process takes no time at all to occur and it will always work.

That's because bots don't have bad days, they don't get groggy, and they're always alert. They MUST do it or ###SYNTAX ERROR REDO_FROM_START###

Are you sure? Cause in my experience AI occasionally misses with interrupts, especially if I get a fast cast. I've seen this happen in UW with the mindblade guys and in HA when playing against gwen.

MasterSasori · Feb 09, 2010, 07:34 PM // 19:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lusciious

right . i was running domination on 10 . brought along power spike because of the damage . i guess you use them for the interrupts and not the damage huh ?

Bingo. It was never about damage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lusciious

says who ? you've got good energy management with shouts and chants as long as the party stays together . drop spear mastery to 8+1 and put 10 into curses .

It doesn't work because you can't do both SY and MoP because your att spread is horrible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lusciious

No i am not criticizing you for too much defence . i'm criticizing you for too little offence.

You have a better idea? Have you tried your P/N idea? It doesn't work nearly as well as it seems on paper. Even on paper I was reluctant on trying it. Trying it, I don't think it works.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lusciious

Wow . You really like big numbers huh ? Is your highest attribute always at 16 ?

Whats MBAS ?

For most things, atts should be high as the HP loss isn't significant. Low 500s are enough unless there is a specific problem.

MBAS=Mend Body and Soul. They remove condition and heals. I don't really have a problem with blind. Not even in Shards of Orr. MBAS seems to remove more conditions because the hero uses it very often because it imagines it as both removal and heal and thus, it spams it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lusciious

I'm not comparing my build against yours . I'm comparing my heroes build against yours . You have a MB . I have a MB . Is it not okay / wrong / not worthy to compare my MB against your MB ? Is yours too good and me not worthy of it or is yours too weak so you don't want me to compare it ? You have an Imbagon . I have my ER Protter . Did i compare my ER Protter to any of your healers ? no . I am a MoP Nuker . Did i compare myself to any of your heroes ?

also, please don't start attack me with insults such as bark . if you don't like it, you don't have to reply .

You can't compare because each hero needs to be customized with the character you're playing. You need the ER but I don't. Prot Spirit/Aegis is very useful to you but not so much for me.

The point of these builds is seeing it as a whole but you can't compare individual parts or even a single hero because how the entire hero build functions as one and therefore, you need to know not one but ALL parts well before making a judgment.

And you're drawing conclusions. I never said or even hinted you were stupid. That is simply a fabrication on your part.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lusciious

I don't see why you think FF and Infuse is a waste of skill slots . you need more offence . that's your problem . you don't even bother about blinds . that's your achilles heels . once you're blinded, you won't last long against 1-2 mobs . yet you don't seem to even care about it ? yes . i like being blind for 10 seconds and 10 seconds later, oh yes! i'm blind again ? is that what you're trying to tell me ? You admit that you don't do enough damage so chances are, you won't kill a group in less than 20 seconds.

1. infuse is an enchant with a relatively long recharge and there is alot of enchant removal.
2. The combo takes out two slots. Two slots that can be for something else.
3. FF has a recharge of 5 seconds and heroes dont spam it either when it is needed. It also doesn't work well when you need mass removal of blind. You can simply use a 20% shorter blind on the shield and it is enough for most purposes.
4. It is useful in certain situations but as a general build, it is simply a win-more function.
5. There other good options. MBAS, Recovery, Dismiss condition (for your build), Draw Conditions.

How do you even know how long I last? I already stated I have two copies of MBAS. MBAS functions as both heal and removal, so I am not wasting time removing a condition only - I am getting a heal as well.

20 seconds against what?

You're jumping to conclusions without any strong evidence on your part.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lusciious

This is the only thing i found useful in your reply . and the other part where you said about higher minion being a n/a and i should compare myself to him.

That's a real shame. I don't see what is the comprehension problem. Clarify why nothing else helps.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lusciious

Just a suggestion. You're not perfect. Here i am trying to help both of us improve by giving suggestions and you don't seem to appreciate the shit i do.

Stop making stuff up. If you are going to give advice, then please suggest things that you've actually tried out extensively. Your motigon? Motigons are about the worst thing paras can offer. Have you tried running one? Long recharge, easy to shut down, worse than almost every counterpart possible, including all decent N/Rt, N/Mo, ER infuser, Monks with any kind of emanagement or no emanagement, and yes even the D/N dark orders. The damage it provides is so little compared to anything else.

Your P/N is unreasonable as well because:

1. I can't run shields with low command
2. MoP must be cast while I maintain the shouts. Without the shouts, I don't have the defense I need for the more difficult places in HM.
3. Energy flowing out of paragons only if they charge their shouts with adren and energy. This requires time. With MoP, I won't have enough energy to maintain AR and keep TNTF along with EBSoH.
4. This will require me to change my entire set of hero builds because the defense is totally different. You've given me advice on the P/N, but you haven't mentioned anything about how my other heroes must work with it.

Are you understanding why I'm taking your advice reluctantly? It is not that I do not appreciate your time - it's that you haven't provided the strong evidence needed to make a convincing argument.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lusciious

might as well not do it anymore don't you again ? Please don't tell me "I didn't ask you to do so." If you do, you're just showing all of us your selfish nature. I use a "i wanna friend you" tone and yet you use a "cmon ! wanna fight ?!" to reply. Oh and if you don't remember what you wrote earlier, it doesn't hurt to open another tab . please stop contradicting yourself.

I've never started a fight with you and I don't intend to. All my advice and my comments with you have been criticism because I've use AP-MoP before and I know what works and what is mediocre. Can you say the same about my build? If you don't want to talk to me, then I won't reply to any of your posts and we can end this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lusciious

and if you consider this to be offence ? well .. i've got nothing more to say . interrupts are not helping you to damage . it's helping you to enforce your defence . "yes! CoF just did 15 damage to everyone . Take that you group of w/e monsters."

The only offense I've taken is your you don't know the importance of HP in PvE comment. Inappropriate and condescending.

Have a better option other than interrupts? I'd like to hear it. By all means, totally change my hero builds if you think I'm not doing it right. But if you suggest it, you better back it up or I will tear it apart. And I do really appreciate the time you spend. Writing all these responses have taken me a while. If you weren't worth the time I would just tell you to stfu and be done with it.

Improvavel · Feb 09, 2010, 09:13 PM // 21:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterSasori

1. I can't run shields with low command

?????

It gives you 8 armor instead of 16 - not that biggie (not making any other consideations of your argument with the other dude).

A quick note about Motigons.

Motivation does indeed need a buff, but there are some interesting skills in that line, probably not good enough for h/h or in all situations, but Finale of Restoration is a really good skill.

Lusciious · Feb 09, 2010, 10:44 PM // 22:44

Quote:

It doesn't work because you can't do both SY and MoP because your att spread is horrible.

oh . i was not talking about you . i was talking about your heroes .

Quote:

For most things, atts should be high as the HP loss isn't significant. Low 500s are enough unless there is a specific problem.

you runed your heroes . i didn't . they have 400+ hp . it's my problem over here so i've got nothing to say .

Quote:

1. infuse is an enchant with a relatively long recharge and there is alot of enchant removal.
2. The combo takes out two slots. Two slots that can be for something else.
3. FF has a recharge of 5 seconds and heroes dont spam it either when it is needed. It also doesn't work well when you need mass removal of blind. You can simply use a 20% shorter blind on the shield and it is enough for most purposes.
4. It is useful in certain situations but as a general build, it is simply a win-more function.
5. There other good options. MBAS, Recovery, Dismiss condition (for your build), Draw Conditions.

How do you even know how long I last? I already stated I have two copies of MBAS. MBAS functions as both heal and removal, so I am not wasting time removing a condition only - I am getting a heal as well.

20 seconds against what?

You're jumping to conclusions without any strong evidence on your part.

well firstly, i didn't know what MBAS is . secondly, 20 seconds was just an example of how long . i didn't say i could do it faster since i don't time myself . but i know you can't do it in less than 20 seconds .

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Stop making stuff up. If you are going to give advice, then please suggest things that you've actually tried out extensively. Your motigon? Motigons are about the worst thing paras can offer. Have you tried running one? Long recharge, easy to shut down, worse than almost every counterpart possible, including all decent N/Rt, N/Mo, ER infuser, Monks with any kind of emanagement or no emanagement, and yes even the D/N dark orders. The damage it provides is so little compared to anything else.

If you're a paragon, you stick with imbagon . i was talking about your heroes . can they run SY ?

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Your P/N is unreasonable as well because:

1. I can't run shields with low command
2. MoP must be cast while I maintain the shouts. Without the shouts, I don't have the defense I need for the more difficult places in HM.
3. Energy flowing out of paragons only if they charge their shouts with adren and energy. This requires time. With MoP, I won't have enough energy to maintain AR and keep TNTF along with EBSoH.
4. This will require me to change my entire set of hero builds because the defense is totally different. You've given me advice on the P/N, but you haven't mentioned anything about how my other heroes must work with it.

Are you understanding why I'm taking your advice reluctantly? It is not that I do not appreciate your time - it's that you haven't provided the strong evidence needed to make a convincing argument.

P/N was just an example made up right at that time . I wasn't even considering whether it worked or not . and like i said, all these builds were meant for your heroes . not you . if p/n doesn't work then go p/rt for splinter then . 5 energy cost isn't too much to ask ? if you've already spreaded in 3 attributes then go /me for rupts (cof and power return?) and on your MM, drop /m and get curses or channelling since they have better energy management .

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I've never started a fight with you and I don't intend to. All my advice and my comments with you have been criticism because I've use AP-MoP before and I know what works and what is mediocre. Can you say the same about my build? If you don't want to talk to me, then I won't reply to any of your posts and we can end this.

the way you speak doesn't seem so to me . i never said i didn't want to talk to you . i'm just offended by the way you reply . it's the words you use, or maybe even me as well, that causes the misunderstanding and if it was the case for me then i apologize .

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The only offense I've taken is your you don't know the importance of HP in PvE comment. Inappropriate and condescending.

Have a better option other than interrupts? I'd like to hear it. By all means, totally change my hero builds if you think I'm not doing it right. But if you suggest it, you better back it up or I will tear it apart. And I do really appreciate the time you spend. Writing all these responses have taken me a while. If you weren't worth the time I would just tell you to stfu and be done with it.

by offence, i mean damage . not the one you thought i was talking about . Alright . Next time i won't suggest anything until i've tested it extensively . and about the HP thing, i didn't rune my heroes so they don't have 500+ hp when a sup rune is used on them . do you consider 400+ to be good enough ?

http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:Team_-_OoV_Heroway <-- you made that didn't you ?

Well take a look at http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:Team...ical_Hero_Team

edit: is this why i'm dying ? i didn't rune my heroes ?