Curse

Tirzan · Feb 10, 2010, 04:43 PM // 16:43

Reading some of the threads in this section i can see most ppl love ER hero and N/Rt as healers/protters. So which role can have monk heroes if we make other classes to do their job?

How do you use and set them?

Life Bringing · Feb 10, 2010, 04:48 PM // 16:48

RoJ smiter with SoH. Inspir line to keep energy up. Kinda inferior to other options though

Improvavel · Feb 10, 2010, 04:52 PM // 16:52

No role.

N/Mo, N/Rt and E/Mo will fill all the roles Monk heroes could do, only better.

FoxBat · Feb 10, 2010, 05:40 PM // 17:40

If you have some human melee, SoH is too insane to pass up. Smiters are generally good against the more balanced eotn parties that spam hexes and conditions too. (and of course, undead)

MasterSasori · Feb 10, 2010, 06:18 PM // 18:18

I wouldn't say that a N/Mo smite works better than a Monk smiter for a couple reasons.

1. Higher Smite
2. Specs can go to Divine and Smiting only instead of soul reaping. This gives some healing from Divine boon and spamming.
3. You may have to use your elite for e-management but necros don't have anything other than a r12 RoJ which isn't particularly stunning.

A generic idea is

Defender's Zeal
Smite Hex
Smite Condition
Reverse Damage
Smiter's Boon
SoH
optional
optional

Boon at 13 divine gives good heals, serves as a cover, and is very good for its cost and duration.

There is also very good hex removal options using smite with Deny hex, smite hex, and a long charging divine spell such as heaven's delight. Excellent cleaner.

ac1inferno · Feb 10, 2010, 07:02 PM // 19:02

Most people would set their monk heroes as smiters or woh hybrids, some even [[Unyielding Aura (PvE), but what I do with mine most of the time is set them up as boon prot with a lot of e-management.

Not Listing it Here · Feb 10, 2010, 07:32 PM // 19:32

I bring a WoH monk mostly just to help out the 2 hench monks in rough areas (condition and hex heavy). Kind of my 'just in case' toon. An SoS toon (Rit. pri., can't beat 16 chan.) or Jagged Bones MM (N/Me, rarely /Mo), a glyph of Sac nuker with Sav. Heat, and the backup WoH monk. Otherwise (most times, since I take the MM and SoS usually), they sit in the Guild Hall all day, playing cards I believe.

Sankt Hallvard · Feb 10, 2010, 07:35 PM // 19:35

Monk offers the strongest hero by FAR, and it's due to 1 skill only. I'm glad that only about half of you get it, that way it may get to live a while before anet nerfs it. (They are notorious for nerfing fun skills and leaving the boring, blatantly broken crap untouched.)

Improvavel · Feb 10, 2010, 08:10 PM // 20:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterSasori

I wouldn't say that a N/Mo smite works better than a Monk smiter for a couple reasons.

First I use N/Mo both at smitting and as hybrid WoH.

Quote:

1. Higher Smite
2. Specs can go to Divine and Smiting only instead of soul reaping. This gives some healing from Divine boon and spamming.
3. You may have to use your elite for e-management but necros don't have anything other than a r12 RoJ which isn't particularly stunning.

Necros have elite e-mag too if they actually need. And they don't need to keep 2-3 bonds.

Generic smitting N/Mo:

1.Order of Pain
2.Dark fury
3.Optional elite (if keeping more than 2 bonds I recommend something like OoB or maybe cultist fervor, otherwise something like Empathic removal).
4.SoH
5.SolS
6.Optional
7.Optional
8.Optional

You can also go with Order of vampire instead.

Order of pain at 10-11 is good enough and covers for the loss of a couple of ranks in smiting.

You can also adapt them for RoJ usage if you don't need the orders.

Generic N/Mo WoH hybrid

1.WoH
2.DKiss
3.Aegis
4.PS (or SB)
5.SoA
6.SolS
7.Optional
8.Optional

Quote:

A generic idea is

Defender's Zeal
Smite Hex
Smite Condition
Reverse Damage
Smiter's Boon
SoH
optional
optional

Boon at 13 divine gives good heals, serves as a cover, and is very good for its cost and duration.

There is also very good hex removal options using smite with Deny hex, smite hex, and a long charging divine spell such as heaven's delight. Excellent cleaner.

upier · Feb 10, 2010, 08:17 PM // 20:17

With only 3 heroes I can't justify a monk hero.
SoH goes either on the SoS-rit or the ER-protter.
I'd rather have SoH at 10-12 and an extra hero slot than a 14-16 SoH.

Improvavel · Feb 10, 2010, 08:24 PM // 20:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

With only 3 heroes I can't justify a monk hero.
SoH goes either on the SoS-rit or the ER-protter.
I'd rather have SoH at 10-12 and an extra hero slot than a 14-16 SoH.

This is certainly true, but some people do have more than 3 hero slots, either to 2 accounts or playing with a friend. Not that I would use a monk even in those circumstances.

For h/h you are quite right.

cognophile · Feb 10, 2010, 09:28 PM // 21:28

Smiters and holy damage can be fun in places with lots of undead, like shards of orr.

Aside from that, I normally don't use monk heroes much.

Daesu · Feb 10, 2010, 09:52 PM // 21:52

Monk heroes are still useful for UA builds.

MasterSasori · Feb 11, 2010, 12:27 AM // 00:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

Necros have elite e-mag too if they actually need. And they don't need to keep 2-3 bonds.

For the monk, it may be necessary. The necro should be fine without it. It's hard to justify a reason to carry Cultist when there should be adequate soul reaping.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

Generic smitting N/Mo:

1.Order of Pain
2.Dark fury
3.Optional elite (if keeping more than 2 bonds I recommend something like OoB or maybe cultist fervor, otherwise something like Empathic removal).
4.SoH
5.SolS
6.Optional
7.Optional
8.Optional

You can also go with Order of vampire instead.

Empathic Removal is pretty bad. I'm sure there must be better options. OoV is better. Much better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

Order of pain at 10-11 is good enough and covers for the loss of a couple of ranks in smiting.

12, 10, 8 split? Which one will smite be?

Improvavel · Feb 11, 2010, 12:42 AM // 00:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterSasori

For the monk, it may be necessary. The necro should be fine without it. It's hard to justify a reason to carry Cultist when there should be adequate soul reaping.

I find that as well - well if the necro needs to keep 4 bonds I generally give it OoBlood.

Quote:

Empathic Removal is pretty bad. I'm sure there must be better options. OoV is better. Much better.

Empathic removal isn't as bad as you think - sometimes even degen hexes and degen conditions can be annoying and having something that is able to remove those from 2 of your character and provide some health isn't irrelevant (50 health for both by the way). And goes well with foul feast.

Additionally while OoV is better than OoP, Dark Fury is also better than mark of pain, so it somewhat balances.

Quote:

12, 10, 8 split? Which one will smite be?

12 smite of course. Then something like 8+1 SR and 10+1+1 blood. OoP/OoV+SoH is good damage.

MasterSasori · Feb 11, 2010, 01:00 AM // 01:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

Empathic removal isn't as bad as you think - sometimes even degen hexes and degen conditions can be annoying and having something that is able to remove those from 2 of your character and provide some health isn't irrelevant (50 health for both by the way). And goes well with foul feast.

I can't justify using an elite on something that can be much better done on a monk for a cleaner - Deny Hex+long divine spell, Smite Hex. If its conditions, Draw for monk, FF for necro.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

Additionally while OoV is better than OoP, Dark Fury is also better than mark of pain, so it somewhat balances.

I think you mean Mark of Fury because MoP is gw god.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

12 smite of course. Then something like 8+1 SR and 10+1+1 blood. OoP/OoV+SoH is good damage.

Blood needs to be either 11 or 13 including runes because 12 doesn't make OoP any more powerful from 11.

9 SR seems a little low for maintaining enchants + OoP/Fury Spam. You may have energy problems even with SOLS.

Improvavel · Feb 11, 2010, 01:22 AM // 01:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterSasori

I can't justify using an elite on something that can be much better done on a monk for a cleaner - Deny Hex+long divine spell, Smite Hex. If its conditions, Draw for monk, FF for necro.

The guy you are slapping Empathic removal is already covering orders and SoH, can run remove hex, smite hex/smite condition, foul feast.

Or you can have that monk that has worse energy management, that won't run orders, gaining in return of a bit more SoH damage but less than the OoP will grant, and having a heal party effect instead of an adrenaline boost.

Sorry but I'll take the Necro guy.

Quote:

I think you mean Mark of Fury because MoP is gw god.

Yes.

Quote:

Blood needs to be either 11 or 13 including runes because 12 doesn't make OoP any more powerful from 11.

Yes you are right - actually my orders necro have SR on the scalp so they end 10+1 Blood, 12 smiting and 8+1+1 SR.

Quote:

9 SR seems a little low for maintaining enchants + OoP/Fury Spam. You may have energy problems even with SOLS.

I've run this extensively and keeping 2 soh is easy pickings. 3 soh you need to kill stuff fast, but still not too bad. 4 soh I would use Offering of blood.

It was better with the old masochism though - gogo ANET turning good skills into irrelevant +2 attributes...

Daesu · Feb 11, 2010, 03:05 AM // 03:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterSasori

Empathic Removal is pretty bad. I'm sure there must be better options. OoV is better. Much better.

OOV is not popular for heroes because physical heroes are not as good as caster heroes.

Improvavel · Feb 11, 2010, 03:40 AM // 03:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

OOV is not popular for heroes because physical heroes are not as good as caster heroes.

Sure for h/h - but if it is 2p+6h you have the potential for 2 human physicals and paragon heroes can be reasonable - they have decent anthems to combo with spirits, fall back, can daze and can bring utility. On the other hand it is OoV+Mark of Fury vs OoP+Dark Fury with elite open if you bringing any order hero anyway (guess you could bring an ER Orders but they just lack the ability to slot soh in/provide other relevant utility).

Are we talking exclusively builds for h/h here? Because if we are, as Upier said, there is no way a monk here is going to be in ur team unless u need it for a mission or don't have enough heroes yet and that is thread there.

Daesu · Feb 11, 2010, 04:20 AM // 04:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

Sure for h/h - but if it is 2p+6h you have the potential for 2 human physicals and paragon heroes can be reasonable

Just 2 human physicals are not enough justification for an orders build. Paragon heroes are not as good, unless for the narrow case of supporting Paragon players then there can be some redeeming value.

Ranged physical heroes can't detect walls and obstacles, so if they dont have line of sight, they would simply continue to fail by repeatedly firing at the wall. And melee physical heroes fail by running in and out of AoE attacks until they drop dead.

Quote:

- they have decent anthems to combo with spirits, fall back, can daze and can bring utility. On the other hand it is OoV+Mark of Fury vs OoP+Dark Fury with elite open if you bringing any order hero anyway (guess you could bring an ER Orders but they just lack the ability to slot soh in/provide other relevant utility).

If you are using anthems to combo with spirits then a Rt/P makes more sense for a level 14 channeling and splinter weapon.