Curse

Rushin Roulette · Feb 24, 2010, 09:10 PM // 21:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pirate Felix

The base of damage is different (SS is crap, it will only hit like 3 times) doesnt has one specified healer. MM is the same i agree, but everybody knows thats just a general MM build

SS may not be the best Elite, but it outdamages Xinrae by far. SS is comparable to Discord in terms of damage. The only difference is that it is an unconditional reactive hex (which is AoE as an added bonus) as opposed to a conditional proactive hex. Xinrae however has the downside of both those skills with hardly any upside.
Its a reactive buff for one team member which relies on that team member to take damage (Life stealing however doesnt trigger Xinrae whereas SS is triggered by the Skill activation). in that sence it is a strong one time prot and a weak heal... but thats it for Xinrae... really no need for 2 copies of that one elite. If you want to stick with that basic setup, then at least changeone of the Xinraes to Weapon of Warding (or the similar elite... cant remmeber the name from that skill out of the basic Sabway build) that at least removers conditions.... But that will still be a sub par team setup. Still too much defence and far too little offence by far.

Pirate Felix · Feb 24, 2010, 09:31 PM // 21:31

Right then,
More damage, less heals:

No MM

Zacchius · Feb 24, 2010, 10:15 PM // 22:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pirate Felix

Right then,
More damage, less heals:

No MM

I think this is actually worse than the original idea...now you have no minions, which means less triggers on MoP (spirits don't deal physical damage) which means...its not any better than before. If you're gonna use MoP, bone fiends are the best to use with it because they have the fastest attack speed among minions, and does physical(piercing) damage to trigger MoP. This version really calls for Painful Bond rather than MoP, and that might get you somewhere.

I've killed a warrior in AB with Xinrae; sure it works, but it took a minute or more to down him. It's not practical, especially not in pve in groups with enemy healers...like Roulette said, its a one time prot and weak life stealing heal.

Pirate Felix · Feb 24, 2010, 10:24 PM // 22:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zacchius

I think this is actually worse than the original idea...now you have no minions, which means less triggers on MoP (spirits don't deal physical damage) which means...its not any better than before. If you're gonna use MoP, bone fiends are the best to use with it because they have the fastest attack speed among minions, and does physical(piercing) damage to trigger MoP. This version really calls for Painful Bond rather than MoP, and that might get you somewhere.

I've killed a warrior in AB with Xinrae; sure it works, but it took a minute or more to down him. It's not practical, especially not in pve in groups with enemy healers...like Roulette said, its a one time prot and weak life stealing heal.

Suppose MoP is optional, Painful is already on the third bar

Zacchius · Feb 24, 2010, 10:39 PM // 22:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pirate Felix

Suppose MoP is optional, Painful is already on the third bar

Oh, my bad, I didn't see it there.

Since that's the case, I'd just scrap the second bar and make it a healer; MoP doesn't really fit here, I don't think.

Shut A You Face · Feb 24, 2010, 10:39 PM // 22:39

Didn't builds like this just used to be called "Variants" in pvx?

Pirate Felix · Feb 24, 2010, 10:45 PM // 22:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shut A You Face

Didn't builds like this just used to be called "Variants" in pvx?

If you would actually read threads and see that i havent updated first post yet

Braxton619 · Feb 25, 2010, 12:13 AM // 00:13

Defense seems good but offense sucks.

AtomicMew · Feb 25, 2010, 07:33 AM // 07:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rushin Roulette

SS may not be the best Elite, but it outdamages Xinrae by far. SS is comparable to Discord in terms of damage. The only difference is that it is an unconditional reactive hex (which is AoE as an added bonus) as opposed to a conditional proactive hex. Xinrae however has the downside of both those skills with hardly any upside.
Its a reactive buff for one team member which relies on that team member to take damage (Life stealing however doesnt trigger Xinrae whereas SS is triggered by the Skill activation). in that sence it is a strong one time prot and a weak heal... but thats it for Xinrae... really no need for 2 copies of that one elite. If you want to stick with that basic setup, then at least changeone of the Xinraes to Weapon of Warding (or the similar elite... cant remmeber the name from that skill out of the basic Sabway build) that at least removers conditions.... But that will still be a sub par team setup. Still too much defence and far too little offence by far.

...The more you know...

I dislike when people throw around terms like "proactive" and "reactive" without having any real meaning behind those words. In the context of Guild Wars PvE Theorycrafting, when people refer to the superiority of "proactive skills", they are referring to skills that are able to synergize and create leverage like MoP and barbs. Discord has no ability to create leverage, and thus, the fact that SS is reactive (while discord is proactive) has almost no relation to the reason why it is not as good as discord. In other words, discord isn't better because it is proactive, discord is better because it is better.

Pirate Felix · Feb 25, 2010, 11:07 AM // 11:07

Right, just did a few HM missions with this and zero deaths and real good damage with the Channeling hero.
IDK what you are all complaining about

Elephantaliste · Feb 25, 2010, 11:31 AM // 11:31

what about WoHway ?

Luminarus · Feb 25, 2010, 12:47 PM // 12:47

I did a few HM missions with a derv healer, a random crap hero mm and a vor mes + hench, no deaths.

Doesnt make it gud, or as efficent as sab/discorday...

Pirate Felix · Feb 25, 2010, 04:02 PM // 16:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elephantaliste

what about WoHway ?

WoH doesnt steal health

Daesu · Feb 25, 2010, 04:12 PM // 16:12

Xinrae is a weak elite, it is used more often because there are no better choices in restoration, for the hero AI. It is an over glorified Reversal of Fortune/Damage that takes up your elite slot.

Are the first 2 N/Rt or Rt/N? If they are N/Rt you cant get as much energy from soul reaping since you dont have a minion factory and if Rt/N they should have spirit siphon.

AR is weak in HM and spirit rift takes too long. Hero AI makes poor choices on where to cast MoP and MoP only works with physical damage, not spirit damage.

Rushin Roulette · Feb 25, 2010, 05:10 PM // 17:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by trcvrs

...The more you know...

I dislike when people throw around terms like "proactive" and "reactive" without having any real meaning behind those words. In the context of Guild Wars PvE Theorycrafting, when people refer to the superiority of "proactive skills", they are referring to skills that are able to synergize and create leverage like MoP and barbs. Discord has no ability to create leverage, and thus, the fact that SS is reactive (while discord is proactive) has almost no relation to the reason why it is not as good as discord. In other words, discord isn't better because it is proactive, discord is better because it is better.

Please read my post again. I did not say that either SS or Discord are better than the other. I just explained what reactive (The foe has to do something to meet the conditions) as opposed to proactive (you have to do somethgin to meet the conditions). I even went as far as saying that SS is similar to Discord. The 2 skills would even synergize together, because Discord requires a Hex as part of the damage conditions (Would only be interresting on foes with very high HP though).

Now back on topic. The new buildlooks better, but you might as well drop MoP and to a lesser extent Splinter weapon completely now. The MM was there to trigger MoP and also protecting the party with the Minion Meat shield which more or less also kept agro of the foes in one area.

With this now you have 2 skills which you can free up. If the top bar is for a Rit primary, you might want to think about adding Boon of creation so as to givr him a good nergy management skill for spirit spamming

Pirate Felix · Feb 25, 2010, 07:52 PM // 19:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

Xinrae is a weak elite, it is used more often because there are no better choices in restoration, for the hero AI. It is an over glorified Reversal of Fortune/Damage that takes up your elite slot.

Are the first 2 N/Rt or Rt/N? If they are N/Rt you cant get as much energy from soul reaping since you dont have a minion factory and if Rt/N they should have spirit siphon.

AR is weak in HM and spirit rift takes too long. Hero AI makes poor choices on where to cast MoP and MoP only works with physical damage, not spirit damage.

AR is armor ignoring and Spirit Rift deals damage each second with added cracked armor

About MoP, i agree with removing it, maybe for reckless haste? since the first 2 are supposed to be N/Rt
And splinter, i just like it since i use a scythe and razah has 15 channeling (11+1+3) so i hit 53's.

AtomicMew · Feb 25, 2010, 09:52 PM // 21:52

Quote:

I did not say that either SS or Discord are better than the other. I just explained what reactive (The foe has to do something to meet the conditions) as opposed to proactive (you have to do somethgin to meet the conditions). I even went as far as saying that SS is similar to Discord. The 2 skills would even synergize together, because Discord requires a Hex as part of the damage conditions (Would only be interresting on foes with very high HP though).

And as I stated, the fact that one is reactive and the other is proactive makes no difference in the context you used them. There is no meaning behind the words as you use them other than as descriptors for how the skills work. It is almost like saying "Discord has more green on its skill icon than Xinrae." YES, it is technically true, but that's pretty irrelevant, because I'm sure everyone already knew that, as everyone already knew how SS and discord works.

Also, you have the definition of "synergize" wrong as well. There is no synergy between SS and discord: the complete opposite in fact.

There is no need to be so defensive. I'm just trying to make some things clearer.

MasterSasori · Feb 25, 2010, 11:25 PM // 23:25

I see some significant problems with this build:

Why two Xinrae's? It's already a pretty lackluster skill. You get all the prot you need if you just run a ER infuser.

Communing sucks compared to other stuff you can use. I don't see why people use it other than Shadowsong and AoU.

PwK means you can't use your rit weapons and the +12 energy is more useful, especially

3 FoF? You shouldn't be dying that much. How can you leave out Mend Body and Soul? It's major bar compression, time and energy saver.

Another splinter weapon please. Another AR too.

Which ones are intended for necro and which one for rit? Necro with siphon spirit is pointless so I'm assuming that's a rit.

Runes, weapons, att spread, alternate skills, what class is this for? All that needs to be included.

AtomicMew · Feb 26, 2010, 12:37 AM // 00:37

Communing spirit spam is amazing in combination with channeling spirit spam. It's pretty much more damage than anything else a hero can do in H/H.

Pirate Felix · Feb 26, 2010, 11:58 AM // 11:58

Bit of updating: