Curse

Satans Soldiier · Feb 14, 2010, 07:02 PM // 19:02

I have been using this build for a while now and variating it, and it has been quite successful, so I thought I would share it with you.

It is built around the AP MoP nuker build for a necromancer primary, and it is a solid 3 man hero team that I would recommend to any necro primaries that are fed up of discording, and want to make good use of the awesome AP MoP nuker build which doesn't synergise very well with discordway.

I have always been a fan of the sabway build but I recently dropped it for discordway, realising that although a gimmick, discord was very effective. I find discord can be pretty boring to use though, so I have since wanted to create a new 3 hero set up which is similar to sabway but is more tailored to a necro primary, and this is what I have come up with.

Player bar

Everyone has seen this before, standard AP MoP nuker, pain inverter can be changed for anything as can enfeebling blood.

N/Rt healer

N/Rt healer, I find Icy Veins is the best elite to use with this because I bring a healer henchman with this team in 8 man areas, so there is no need for a defensive elite. This could be swapped for any other type of hero healer, I find that because of the minions in this build the N/Rt fits best.

Explosive SoS MM

Uses spawning power enchantments coupled with minions and spirits to create good support, with splinter weapon for physicals. The minions from this build are then enchanted by the jagged bones necro to make high death magic bombs whilst still utilising the power of explosive growth and the other spawning power enchantments.

Jagged bones necro

You are probably thinking I'm nuts at this point, in realisation that this hero has no minion skills. But it relies on the fact that necromancers can use death magic enchantments on other players' minions, which is what this hero does, it enchants the explosive MM's minions to create high level bombs and jagged horrors whilst protecting the party with a similar set up to the sabway minion master. A minion skill could easily be substituted in here for spirit bond, SoLS or putrid bile for use in high corpse areas.

Pros & Cons of the build

The pros and cons of this build are similar to sabway, there is no hex removal, and a healer henchman may be required for extra monking, but this build packs good offense and defense into 3 heroes in a similar way that sabway does, but in a more viable way for necro primary characters.

The build has been successful in completing all of the high end factions and some nightfall missions in hm (gate of pain needs dunkuro), most notably the gate of madness and tahnnakai temple which I could not complete with discordway. However, I am certain that these builds can be improved, so any constructive feedback would be appreciated.

I would suggest using this build with as many ranged physicals as possible (ranger and paragon henchmen in H/H) to make use of MoP and barbs, I generally use a monk henchmen, two ranger henchmen and a mesmer henchman. If you have another player two run a 6 man hero build with, I would suggest two paragon heroes (as seen in "My paragon buddies") and an infuriating heat ranger hero, but I have never managed to try this with another player.

Thanks for reading, I hope people will find this useful, and I apologise if you find this build not very original, as it is comprised fully of builds that were not made, only variated by me. If you want equipment and a usage guide for the heroes I will create one, but since all of these heroes have their own pvx wiki page I have decided not to so far.

AtomicMew · Feb 14, 2010, 07:36 PM // 19:36

Looks decent IMO. Off the bat, it looks overall weaker than discordway. It certainly won't be able to take on any higher difficulty areas (dungeons, certain VQs), but sab and discordway have the same problems.

A few things:
-Get rid of IV ASAP. You could use an ER in place or something.

-There's no point in having masochism if you only have a minor in death; it's anti-synergistic.

Grim Aragorn · Feb 14, 2010, 08:12 PM // 20:12

sry, but doesnt look like anything new

Satans Soldiier · Feb 14, 2010, 08:18 PM // 20:18

It isn't really anything new, but I thought it could be useful to share it. I'm not sure what makes you want to drop resto for ER so fast, they both do different jobs really. Masochism is useful for heroes because you don't want to use a -35hp rune in hard mode, or -70hp for that matter, and this gives the same effect for just ~20hp loss each time they cast a spell.

madriel222 · Feb 14, 2010, 08:55 PM // 20:55

The rit bar looks very hero unfriendly. They have the tendency to wait until combat to put up all those enchantments (and if I'm not mistaken, wait until they're almost completely bottomed out to use Boon of Creation). I like the concept of Explosive Growth with minion skills, but I also think that you don't need Spirit's Gift at all. You have plenty of condition removal between Foul Feast and a Mend Body and Soul that's around 4 spirits. Maybe drop Spirit's Gift for Spirit Siphon and Boon of Creation for Ancestor's Rage? Just some thoughts.

Daesu · Feb 14, 2010, 11:02 PM // 23:02

If you want to use MoP, you should use with fiends.

Lusciious · Feb 15, 2010, 02:44 AM // 02:44

Nothing new . IV fails in HM .

Look at madriel's post on the rit's bar . awfully weird too .

your minion bomber looks okay .

never liked PI . i'd rather get BuH, MindBender and EVAS.

I see no need for FH! . cast it properly and the target wont remove it . if you know they have hex removals then cast mop or something as a bait hex . i'm sure you know that .

AtomicMew · Feb 15, 2010, 03:04 AM // 03:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Satans Soldiier

It isn't really anything new, but I thought it could be useful to share it. I'm not sure what makes you want to drop resto for ER so fast, they both do different jobs really. Masochism is useful for heroes because you don't want to use a -35hp rune in hard mode, or -70hp for that matter, and this gives the same effect for just ~20hp loss each time they cast a spell.

To be blunt, if you don't want to listen to friendly, constructive advice, don't bother posting.

1) Both Resto and ER have the exact same purpose: to keep shit from dying. One does the job better than the other. IV is very minor AoE damage and isn't worth the loss of defense by a long shot.

2) Masochism is only useful if you already max out death magic. In just 3 casts, you lose ANY advantage you have by taking a minor and masochism. Not only that, but you take up a skill slot and casting time that is just unnecessary.

3) For a hero-way that's based around double-buffing minions, it's laughable to think that taking one superior rune is more dangerous than the build concept itself. In other words, you're already assuming you're going to roll through the area as fast as possible. You might as well make the most of the concept.

Chthon · Feb 16, 2010, 02:17 AM // 02:17

This build looks like an inferior version of discordway with an AP-MoP caller. And that's very harsh coming from me, as a major critic of discordway, and especially discordway with an AP-MoP caller.

Paul Dawg · Mar 04, 2010, 06:28 AM // 06:28

This is not an AP-MoP hero build. It's an AP-MoP PLAYER build to be used with a hero team. Big difference.

A usable AP-MoP hero build would be a lovely thing because it can potentially cause tons of damage. But I've faced two serious problems with the whole idea and have concluded that it's just not workable:

1. The heroes suck at AP, and all they have to do is mess it up once to gimp the whole bar until MoP recharges.

2. The heroes don't know whom to throw MoP on. If you're calling targets, chances are they'll throw it on a caster (because that's whom you're probably attacking first), and casters are generally NOT great candidates for MoP. That's because they tend to stand alone, kite, whatever, and MoP is most useful in contained mobs. MoP is great to throw on some kind of high-armor warrior in order to thin out a big crowd of attackers while the REST of the party focuses on the casters. And really only a human player can do that.

Daesu · Mar 04, 2010, 04:44 PM // 16:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

If you want to use MoP, you should use with fiends.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

This build looks like an inferior version of discordway with an AP-MoP caller. And that's very harsh coming from me, as a major critic of discordway, and especially discordway with an AP-MoP caller.

These, and also overly reliant on minions. You want to check its performance in places with high damage AoE and/or places with few corpses.

This is just a modified sabway. Jagged Bones is only good for 2 minions, you dont need spirit bond with PS and Aegis, and IV sucks in HM. Very defensive build, with unreliable MoP damage since melee minions can be easily body blocked and dont all converge on the same target that you want them to.

Paul Dawg · Mar 06, 2010, 09:44 AM // 09:44

Icy Veins on the N/Rt is just bad from every conceivable point of view. Not only is the skill bad in HM, as everyone is saying, but also it forces you to put the hero on "guard," which isn't ideal for the N/Rt healer. Xinrae's weapon is the most common choice.

And instead of animate bone horror and explosive growth, which are both pretty pointless, the spirit N/Rt really wants ancestor's rage (since the absurd skill buff) and then something like bloodsong (or painful bond if you prefer).