Curse

Faye Aeris · Mar 09, 2010, 09:19 PM // 21:19

So, I've been toying around with ritualist heroes to find the optimal setup for a hero spiritway. My findings include:

1. Heroes are terrible at optimizing their use of the newly buffed skills Ritual Lord and Soul Twisting.

2. Boon of Creation is difficult to maintain for heroes, and is often casted after the spirits, limiting effectiveness.

3. Ritualist healers are prone to depleting their energy in battles involving degeneration, or battles against larger groups of monsters that take longer to kill.

4. 16 spec in Channeling does not significantly increase damage or duration of Signet of Spirits, making a Ritualist primary unnecessary. On the other hand, Communing Binding Rituals benefit greatly from a high spec.

Taking these factors into consideration, I've designed a hero team designed to be run with any profession. Currently, I'm running this team on my imbagon, my Dragon Slash Warrior, and my Scythe Ranger. You might notice the lack of minions on these bars. This is for a few reasons:

1. I don't want this build to be a gimped copy of discordway or sabway.

2. The spirits hold up fine in both normal mode and hard mode in 4 and 8 man areas, dealing more than enough damage.

3. The included healers are often more than capable of keeping an entire 8-man party alive, without a minion master or second healer. Including in hard mode.

4. A minion master does not seamlessly fit into the purpose of this build, and synergy is very important.

4. Most people already have access to minion master heroes, but do not have access to the skills included in these builds. This is designed to also provide maximum utility when playing in parties, meaning that it provides things that many people lack in their party.

Here is a basic rundown of the pros and cons of this setup:

Pros:
- Powerful healing and protection means that most enemies will be a joke.
- Spirits provide great support, inflicting many conditions, interrupting, dealing respectable damage, and fueling many spirit-based ritualist skills.
- Players are not limited to a certain build to optimize the efficiency of this build.
- Spirits provide a small buffer between your frontline and your backline, making healer's jobs slightly easier.

Cons:
- Lack of minions means more damage done to the party, even with spirits drawing some aggro. This also makes spirits more prone to death, which I personally do not find much of a problem, seeing as good energy management allows heroes to instantly recast dead spirits.
- No hex removal is included; generally not a problem in PvE.
- Due to the nature of spirits, only one person in a party may run this team build.

With all that said, let's move on to the builds:

Ritualist Communing Support:
[build prof=Ritualist communing=12+3+1 channeling=10+1 spawning=8][signet of ghostly might][pain][shadowsong][anguish][disenchantment][dissonance][spirit siphon][signet of creation][/build]

This build is a bunch of high-utility communing spirits stuffed onto a bar, along with an IAS and +damage for amazing damage output. Protective communing spirits were not including, due to a lack of energy and bad AI.

Weaponsets: High energy, casting spear/shield
Armor: Superior Vigor, Survivor, Vitae
Set this hero on Guard.

Necromancer/Ritualist Channeling Healer:
[build prof=Necromancer/Ritualist channeling=12 resto=11 soul=6+3+1][signet of spirits][bloodsong][spirit light][mend body and soul][spirit transfer][painful bond][splinter weapon][signet of lost souls][/build]

Variants:
Replace Spirit Transfer with Vengeful Weapon, Protective was Kaolai, or Ancestor's Rage.
Replace Splinter Weapon with Vengeful Weapon or Ancestor's Rage.

This build utilizes Necromancer Soul Reaping for immense energy benefits, along with ritualist healing spells that gain benefits from spirits. Powerful spirits, red-bars-go-up skills, along with splinter weapon/painful bond damage support makes this synergize extremely well with the Communing Ritualist.

Weaponsets: 40/40 Restoration Magic
Armor: Superior Vigor, Survivor, Vitae
Set this hero on Guard.

Elementalist Ether Protection
[build prof=Elementalist/Monk energy=12+3+1 prot=12][ether renewal][aura of restoration][spirit bond][protective spirit][reversal of fortune][shield of absorption][shielding hands][aegis][/build]

Variants:
Replace Shielding Hands with Guardian.
Replace Shielding Hands with a Resurrection Skill.

With a party full of squishy casters, some damage mitigation is mandatory. Heroes run this protter very effectively, and rarely run out of energy. Infuse Health is inefficiently used by heroes, and therefore not included.

Weaponsets: +20% Enchanting Staff, 20% enchanting caster weapon/shield
Armor: Superior Vigor, Survivor, Vitae
Set this hero on Flee.

Rate, comment, discuss.

Life Bringing · Mar 09, 2010, 09:32 PM // 21:32

Ehh, if you're running splinter, you might as well go rt to hit the 14 spec breakpoint.

Edit:Also lacks partyheals. Probably want life/pwk>spirit transfer.

Faye Aeris · Mar 09, 2010, 09:36 PM // 21:36

Necromancer primarily for energy management and build compression; ritualists run out of energy far too often, and waste space with extra energy management skills, meaning reduced utility. Willing to sacrifice 1 hit of splinter to keep a party alive and allow for more things such as painful bond on the bar.

AtomicMew · Mar 09, 2010, 09:57 PM // 21:57

Very similar to a build I posted earlier. (This was before the update, so I probably wouldnt take RL now).

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/m...t10413318.html

1) Spirit Siphon is extremely strong energy management for the channeling rt. Rt primary is fine.

2) For general purposes, a MM in the third slot is still the best option hands down. ER works, certainly, but is not as fast.

3) Imbagon is not the best option with s-way. SY! doesn't prot spirits,which are you damage source; you'd probably mitigate more damage with an AP caller and spiking down targets quickly.

3) S-way DOES have a slight weakness to AoE, relative to how much other builds are affected. But s-way is so good that it won't matter most of the time and it'll still be better than other options.

Faye Aeris · Mar 09, 2010, 10:09 PM // 22:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by trcvrs

Very similar to a build I posted earlier. (This was before the update, so I probably wouldnt take RL now).

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/m...t10413318.html

1) Spirit Siphon is extremely strong energy management for the channeling rt. Rt primary is fine.

2) For general purposes, a MM in the third slot is still the best option hands down. ER works, certainly, but is not as fast.

3) Imbagon is not the best option with s-way. SY! doesn't prot spirits,which are you damage source; you'd probably mitigate more damage with an AP caller and spiking down targets quickly.

3) S-way DOES have a slight weakness to AoE, relative to how much other builds are affected. But s-way is so good that it won't matter most of the time and it'll still be better than other options.

Spirit Siphon is amazing energy management, but the primary problem that I've had with it is that heroes tend to stay in one spot and cast it over and over on the same spirit, even with 8 different spirits up. To effectively use it, a lot of micromanagement is necessary, which honestly isn't worth it for PvE.

Minion Masters are an amazing addition to any team; that's why I decided not to bring one. While Ether Protters also provide good support, they are also less common. This means that people generally don't bring them, and protection prayers is one of the best methods available to prevent wipes in Hard Mode. If I can survive without the MM while also bringing an amazing asset to a party, I'd go with the Ether Elementalist. Since minion masters are so common, someone else can bring one. Plus, minion masters tend to lag behind the party due to their need to create minions after a battle.

Of course, imbagon isn't the best way to run this build. I use spiritway as more of a general hero team that can be run with anyone. It just so happens that my mains are a ranger, paragon, and warrior, and that my paragon is specifically set up to be an imbagon, with no other skills.

AoE does pose somewhat of a problem to me, especially without Armor of Unfeeling. However, my ritualists tend to move out of AoE and simply recast the spirits, resulting in a new, full-health, full-energy set of spirits; perfect for Spirit Transfer and Spirit Siphon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Life Bringing

Ehh, if you're running splinter, you might as well go rt to hit the 14 spec breakpoint.

Edit:Also lacks partyheals. Probably want life/pwk>spirit transfer.

I was running PwK before, but I dislike the fact that it takes away my weapon and focus. Also, it doesn't synergize with spirits, and I'm not trying to make this a random assortment of OP skills. However, it is very useful in certain situations. The strong partyheal does sometimes come in handy, but not often enough to make much of a difference in general PvE. More often than not, it just slows down my hero. I'll add it in variants, it's still a great addition.

As for Life, I find that heroes love to use this on recharge. This poses a few problems. Firstly, it makes them lag behind the rest of the group because they must cast Life constantly. This means that if a warrior gets spiked in the frontline, it takes extra time for the healer to catch up, possibly resulting in a death. (You might say only a terrible warrior would die that quickly, but the purpose of this build is to support any type of playerbuild, whether it be good or bad) Secondly, this heal is uncontrollable. The +health comes at a random time, whether your party needs it or not. Sure it's a powerful heal, but it just is not worth bringing it, since a lot of times it simply slows down your healer and causes them to waste energy. The energy is a nonissue with the Necromancer primary, but Life is still inferior to PwK.

Arrogant Bastard · Mar 09, 2010, 11:14 PM // 23:14

Use infuse on the ER and condition removal if you need it.

Consider adding blood bond somewhere since it can help mitigate damage on spirits.

Daesu · Mar 10, 2010, 03:58 AM // 03:58

1) No Rez

2) No hex removal. It is a waste on your E/Mo not to bring one from the monk line. You can try to power heal through them with your rit heals but without a MM to fuel soul reaping, that would be tough.

3) No Strength of Honor. A disadvantage for physical melee but doesn't matter otherwise.

4) You are not making the best use of your N/Rt by giving him all the rit skills except SoLS. It has SR but SR without a minion bomber is also gimped. How is that better than a primary Rit with rit runes and spirit siphon?

5) Not sure how well heroes use Signet of Creation. It seems to have a high recharge.

I am already working on a similar 3-heroes build using a ER, Rit, Blood MM or Orders necro for a physical character.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/b...html?p=5078931

Faye Aeris · Mar 10, 2010, 01:07 PM // 13:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

1) No Rez

2) No hex removal. It is a waste on your E/Mo not to bring one from the monk line. You can try to power heal through them with your rit heals but without a MM to fuel soul reaping, that would be tough.

3) No Strength of Honor. A disadvantage for physical melee but doesn't matter otherwise.

4) You are not making the best use of your N/Rt by giving him all the rit skills except SoLS. It has SR but SR without a minion bomber is also gimped. How is that better than a primary Rit with rit runes and spirit siphon?

5) Not sure how well heroes use Signet of Creation. It seems to have a high recharge.

I am already working on a similar 3-heroes build using a ER, Rit, Blood MM or Orders necro for a physical character.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/b...html?p=5078931

A ressurection skill is an optional variant on the elementalist. If you find that you never die, then you might choose to forgo the ressurection skill for some more protection prayers or infuse health.

Hexes in PvE are hardly a threat, at least in most areas of the game. I generally don't bring hex removal for any area of the game. If hexes are bad enough to warrant removal, I'd prefer to bring a hero dedicated to removal, seeing as mobs in these areas stack a ridiculous amount of hexes on top of each other. In these cases, I would bring PnH or Empathic Removal somewhere in my team. Also, I already mentioned lack of hex removal as a potential weakness. Discordway and Sabway also lack hex removal, yet still wreak havoc in PvE.

I don't bring SoH because only 1/4 of this team is a physical, and even that depends on the player's build, which can be anything. If I wanted physicalway, I wouldn't bring 3 casters.

I don't really understand people's fixations with the idea that necromancers' energy management sucks without minions to fuel soul reaping. First of all, as long as you have enough damage output to kill at least 1 mob every 15 seconds, the necromancer included in this team will never run out of energy. Signet of Lost Souls is great at providing energy management when monsters aren't dying. With the benefits from both of these, a necromancer can outheal a ritualist any day, even without an MM. The amount of energy that the N/Rt has is so great that it can afford to spam both Splinter Weapon and Painful Bond on recharge with no effect on its healing capability. As I stated before, someone else can bring a minion master; if I brought one on this team it would become a random assortment of unrelated skills.

You're assuming that I haven't tried a Ritualist primary with runes and Spirit Siphon. First off, Spirit Siphon is amazing energy management. On a human. On a hero, it tends to be cast on the same spirit over and over, which is not really that great. This means that ritualists must have a second energy management skill to use after a spirit siphon, which wastes build compression. My previous ritualist hero had constant problems with energy in drawn out battles without rest in between, even with 2 energy management skills, which is not a problem for this necromancer. In addition, the necromancer is able to provide immense amounts of utility without sacrificing its heals, while a ritualist cannot. The frequency with which the hero uses Painful Bond and Splinter Weapon is much greater on a necromancer, and the heals are stronger. This benefit is greater than the advantage gained from a higher spec in Channeling and Restoration.

Signet of Creation is excellent energy management; the hero uses it perfectly, and combined with Spirit Siphon it provides sufficient energy to cast all Spirits + Signet of Ghostly Might. Constantly high energy is not a priority for the Communing hero; it just needs to get its spirits out and then it has time to regain its energy.

Daesu · Mar 10, 2010, 03:54 PM // 15:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faye Aeris

A ressurection skill is an optional variant on the elementalist. If you find that you never die, then you might choose to forgo the ressurection skill for some more protection prayers or infuse health.

Yes I noticed the variants but usually enough res skills are present in the default build. Anyway, minor point.

Quote:

Hexes in PvE are hardly a threat, at least in most areas of the game. I generally don't bring hex removal for any area of the game. If hexes are bad enough to warrant removal, I'd prefer to bring a hero dedicated to removal, seeing as mobs in these areas stack a ridiculous amount of hexes on top of each other. In these cases, I would bring PnH or Empathic Removal somewhere in my team. Also, I already mentioned lack of hex removal as a potential weakness. Discordway and Sabway also lack hex removal, yet still wreak havoc in PvE.

That is because Discordway and Sabway both have a minion bomber to fuel SR, while you don't. If you don't have one, that just means your ability to spam heals through hexes, instead of removing them, is more limited than either of them.

Even with a minion bomber, you would do better to bring hex removal in certain areas with dangerous hexes, especially when playing a physical. You may want to provide these as variants in hex heavy areas, similar to what Racway provides.

Quote:

I don't bring SoH because only 1/4 of this team is a physical, and even that depends on the player's build, which can be anything. If I wanted physicalway, I wouldn't bring 3 casters.

1/4 of the team? I didn't know this is suppose to be a 4-man team. Otherwise you still have your henchies don't you? But that is another minor point.

Quote:

I don't really understand people's fixations with the idea that necromancers' energy management sucks without minions to fuel soul reaping. First of all, as long as you have enough damage output to kill at least 1 mob every 15 seconds, the necromancer included in this team will never run out of energy. Signet of Lost Souls is great at providing energy management when monsters aren't dying. With the benefits from both of these, a necromancer can outheal a ritualist any day, even without an MM. The amount of energy that the N/Rt has is so great that it can afford to spam both Splinter Weapon and Painful Bond on recharge with no effect on its healing capability. As I stated before, someone else can bring a minion master; if I brought one on this team it would become a random assortment of unrelated skills.

Necro energy management doesn't suck without minions to fuel soul reaping, but obviously it is not going to be as good without one. SoLS is fine, but SoLS isn't always able to provide energy whenever you need it. Fine if the necro is only responsible for non-critical skills, but in a losing battle, you may not get the energy that you need for healing, until someone dies.

Painful Bond lasts shorter from a N/Rt than a primary Rit because of lower channeling and if the target is already hexed with it, there is no point for the hero to re-hex it. Even though there is hope that someone else would bring a MM in a 2-player situation, the 3-heroes build ought to be good enough on its own.