Curse

Necromas · Apr 08, 2010, 04:26 PM // 16:26

Here's the setup I usually use when I spirit spam with heroes.

Myself:

16 Channeling, 15 Communing, 4 Spawning Power (2 sup runes)
Signet of Spirits, Bloodsong, Pain, Optional, Optional, Painful Bond, Summon Spirits, Siphon Spirit.

Sample

Optionals are usually at least one offensive communing spirit and great dwarf weapon or spirit rift.

Minion master:

16(+3) Death Magic, 10(+2) Soul Reaping, 10 Blood Magic or 10 Curses (1 sup rune)
Aura of the Lich, Animate Bone Fiend, Optional, Optional, Optional, Blood of the Master, Masochism, Signet of Lost Souls.

Sample

Optionals are usually death nova and either barbs and MoP or blood bond and some other spell.

Command Support:

15 Command, 10 or 12 Leadership, 10 or 9 Spear Mastery (1 major rune or 1 sup rune)
Soldier's Fury, "Stand Your Ground!", "Go for the Eyes!", Anthem of Envy, Anthem of Weariness, Anthem of Flame, Spear Attack, Spear Attack.

Sample

Sometimes I try a ranger version and use barrage with a zealous bow for energy and adrenaline but they just don't seem to use barrage that well.

Backliner:

A Monk with dwayna's sorrow or an N/Rt healer.

The minion master and I provide a massive army of minions and spirits to both soak up and dish out damage. The command support uses GftE to amplify minion damage and the anthems combine with the spirits to do bonus damage and spread burning and weakness. The third hero is just a standard backliner, but dwayna's sorrow will help when the minions die and the N/Rt can benefit from being near the spirit spammers spirits.

mage767 · Apr 08, 2010, 06:26 PM // 18:26

If that's your perspective, then fine.

I like to run a spirit + minion army team if I go on my rit, much more fun and synergizes with my own channel build.

mistokibbles · Apr 08, 2010, 07:31 PM // 19:31

Your minion master...
480 base health - 75 - 75 - 35
I'd say drop all superiors and majors and replace with minors. Add all survivor+vitae

Necromas · Apr 08, 2010, 08:03 PM // 20:03

Giving the MM a superior death magic rune is a no brainer for any MM build where the goal is to have a maintained force of minions (as opposed to an MM whose goal is to just blow his minions up).

As the spirit spammer my character has 500hp after items even with 2 superiors, and it's really easy to avoid aggro as a spammer. If you don't have good hp gear though just use a minor communing instead of superior.

I guess a minor would be fine on the paragon, I'm just picky about having downtime on the shout.

Survivors + vigor + vitae are just assumed.

Gift3d · Apr 08, 2010, 11:01 PM // 23:01

what misto said. why is there no prot spirit? you're gonna need it, anything in hm will decimate your shit in 2-3 hits, and builds aren't anything unless they can take HM since just about any nm team setup can rickroll in lolpve.

Necromas · Apr 08, 2010, 11:33 PM // 23:33

Who said there was no prot spirit? I didn't even post a specific build for the backliner.

Are you people just randomly looking for ways to criticize everything?

windtalker · Apr 09, 2010, 12:00 AM // 00:00

yes.
if you are posting builds, people are going to use their brains (surprise) and think about problems you might face while using that build. otherwise, everybody in the game would be running sub-optimal builds (mending).

Necromas · Apr 09, 2010, 12:52 AM // 00:52

Except how does it help at all to say 'Dude no prot spirit you will get raped.' when the backline isn't even specified?

I know, I know, I posted a build so therefore people will troll it, but come on, at least try.

Waldir · Apr 09, 2010, 01:07 AM // 01:07

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism you dont like to be told your wrong. Why do you post here if you cant take some advice, i agree hp is very low on your entire set up

Life Bringing · Apr 09, 2010, 08:59 AM // 08:59

Ehh, monk backline is bad and a n/rt can't have prot spirit. The usual place for prots is on the MM. You're also waay too defensive when you're asking for advice, which is stupid. I'd probably drop the Para for a SoGM rit. Drop Pain and your communing spec off of yourself for something else.

Daesu · Apr 09, 2010, 09:10 AM // 09:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Life Bringing

Ehh, monk backline is bad and a n/rt can't have prot spirit. The usual place for prots is on the MM.

I agree. The usual place for prots is on the MM. The Paragon can be replaced by a Rt/P. The Rt/P can add more spirits into the mix but the Paragon can also be a P/Rt to add more shouts, splinter, and spear attacks. But I tend to prefer the Rt/P and more spirits.

Wouldn't a minion bomber work better with this team setup than a fiends MM? Having a minion wall to take aggro is still useful for a caster team.

Kosman · Apr 09, 2010, 11:36 AM // 11:36

Yeah, basically what everyone else said: Too many health sacrificing runes...

Necromas · Apr 09, 2010, 03:48 PM // 15:48

The backline is not the point of the topic, thats why I left the backliner build open, if you are saying this team can't have a good backline then you are saying there is no way to have a good backline with 1 hero and the other 4 party members.

I explained the runes, I think maybe you are misinterpreting what mistok said to imply that one character is for some reason using 2 superiors and 1 major. The spammer is the only real issue there.

Spammer health: 480 -140 (runes) + 50(vigor) + 60 (weapons) + 40 (insig) + 10 (vitae) = 500

I think 500 health is plenty for a spammer because a good spammer can easily avoid aggro, and it's not like using a +60hp weapon set hurts the build because HCT/HRC don't affect binding rituals and with spirit siphon you don't need a big pool. The superior communing rune isn't necessary so you can get up to 570hp if you do that, but losing the superior channeling rune significantly hurts your DPS and don't even try to say a spammer needs more than 570 health.

Why is it so bad for an MM to have 1 superior rune? Even PvX will tell you to use superiors on your MMs if you want to have a strong army.

Like I said, you don't have to use a major or a superior on the paragon, I just prefer to use a major.

Does anyone actually want to talk about the skill selection? Except the death nova comment, I agree removing it might be a good idea because the cast time would get in the way if the hero uses it too much.

Lodar Aric · Apr 10, 2010, 10:27 PM // 22:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by mage767

If that's your perspective, then fine.

I like to run a spirit + minion army team if I go on my rit, much more fun and synergizes with my own channel build.

I'll second this. Just started a new rit and i'm playing through the campaigns as:

Me- Spirit Spammer (Channeling Sprits)-> SoS, Bloodsong, Destruction and agony.

Xandra- Communing spirits-> Reclaim Essence (i like it for recharge but you could use SOGM instead), Anguish, Shadowsong, Pain.

MM- Aura of the Lich Bomber.

Spare slot i just vary depending on what i need e.g. Tease mesmer, ER Prot, Smiting monk etc.

Probably not as optimal as some setups but its working well so far for me.

Voodoo Rage · Apr 10, 2010, 10:55 PM // 22:55

Personally I don't think the Communing spirits you are adding make the additional spec worth it. I think the Channeling line has enough to keep you busy to fill out the skill bar (Ancestor's Rage, Spirit Rift, Great Dwarf Weapon PvE skill, Ebon Vanguard Sin PvE skill, etc...). A consideration might be for a bringing Xandra/Razah to provide your communing spirits (although with minions, defensive communing spirits pretty much instantly go down). I'm still really dubious of the double superiors because even with attempting to avoid aggro, you are still living on the edge health wise (AND +15 armor from Shaman's insignia is way more preferable than Survivor's). In fact, on my rit, I actually go for the shield instead since energy is always plentiful with spirit siphon.

Same thing with your minion master. There is absolutely no need for anything other than the superior death rune (which I agree with); but more than that is pointless. Nothing is worse than having your minion master go down during battle and leaving behind an army of hostile minions.

I've never considered a paragon hero amplifying spirit damage. So the anthems apply to spirit attacks too? I know it doesn't effect minion damage (do without much curses support, your minions are fairly neutered). I'd still suspect a dedicated curses necro would probably bring more damage to the team overall.

I know it's kind of fun to be the SoS guy but the reality is that a hero can recast SoS and siphon them pretty well too. Although, it's not as fun, I find for vanquishing that I'm usually better equipped to handle communing spirits myself since I can transport them and I can use Assassin's Promise as my elite to recast them when I can afford to.

Barrage · Apr 11, 2010, 04:11 AM // 04:11

Switch AoTL to Jagged Bones and plug in animate shambling horror, remove Blood of the master, and since you have such high curses, put in Blood Bond and barbs/MoP.