Curse

mage767 · Jan 27, 2010, 03:57 PM // 15:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

If you set heroes to avoid combat and run into melee range, they tend to follow you. This is bad. When set to guard they tend to attack what you attack at range (provided they have a ranged weapon).

This isn't an issue for casters obviously.

I don't mind setting my ER hero to avoid, because it turns out that the ER getting aggro is good:
1. I doubt the enemies can even take him down...lol
2. They can chase the ER all they want, buying the team some time.
3. Theirony is when the ER hero is attacked, he seems to get 'pissed off', and goes on hyper mode, spamming prot spells all over the place.

So, my verdict is, set to avoid.

Yasmine · Jan 27, 2010, 04:27 PM // 16:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

If you set heroes to avoid combat and run into melee range, they tend to follow you. This is bad. When set to guard they tend to attack what you attack at range (provided they have a ranged weapon).

This isn't an issue for casters obviously.

Ah, I understand, ty. Didn't knew that (I rarely play melee)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mage767

I don't mind setting my ER hero to avoid, because it turns out that the ER getting aggro is good:
1. I doubt the enemies can even take him down...lol
2. They can chase the ER all they want, buying the team some time.
3. Theirony is when the ER hero is attacked, he seems to get 'pissed off', and goes on hyper mode, spamming prot spells all over the place.

So, my verdict is, set to avoid.

Lol, poor thing.

MasterSasori · Jan 27, 2010, 05:49 PM // 17:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by mage767

I don't mind setting my ER hero to avoid, because it turns out that the ER getting aggro is good:
1. I doubt the enemies can even take him down...lol
2. They can chase the ER all they want, buying the team some time.
3. Theirony is when the ER hero is attacked, he seems to get 'pissed off', and goes on hyper mode, spamming prot spells all over the place.

So, my verdict is, set to avoid.

ER can take care of itself reasonably well but in high stress situation there is too much for the ER to take. Especially when there is enchantment removal.

What on the team actually needs less pressure as much as the ER? If the ER goes, your team is going to be in deep sh*t.

Better to play it safe instead of goading the hero to do stuff. At least heroes dont ragequit.

HigherMinion · Jan 27, 2010, 07:30 PM // 19:30

I prefer it when the ER doesn't take heavy aggro. Sometimes (if human) the ER will get cocky, aggro everything and pretend to be invulnerable; until it's Knocked Down, interrupted or stripped of ER. Then there will be alot more fatalities to come.

Set to Guard and give the hero a long-ranged weapon to use. Be it spear or a bow.

AtomicMew · Jan 28, 2010, 08:37 PM // 20:37

Or you can set to avoid and flag... I don't see the problem.

Trader of Secrets · Jan 30, 2010, 12:49 AM // 00:49

This is a question about the E/Mo healer hero; how many bonds can this hero maintain so that hero can decently maintain energy, considering this in a vq setting for 8man map packed with +250 guys.

Arrogant Bastard · Jan 30, 2010, 01:13 AM // 01:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trader of Secrets

This is a question about the E/Mo healer hero; how many bonds can this hero maintain so that hero can decently maintain energy, considering this in a vq setting for 8man map packed with +250 guys.

I wouldn't use any bonds.

Also, lately I've been using Infuse on my ER hero again and it works pretty well even with an MM.

Chthon · Jan 30, 2010, 01:50 AM // 01:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Josip

My current E/Mo uses Ether, Restoration, Prot spirit, Bond, Aegis. And then Heal Other, Healing Breeze and Patient Spirit. Dwayna's Kiss is on MM necro with whom I'm still experimenting.

...

Now, I've 2 questions:

1) Why do people use N/Rt? Is it still better overall?

2) Should I make changes to my E/Mo build?

1. I have no idea. They don't compare to ER.

2. Yes. You have a lot of redundant (and inferior) skills for spot healing.

My heroes usually get this:
ER, Infuse, PS, SB, Shield Guardian, Aegis, Convert Hexes, AoR

You can change up Convert Hexes, Shield Guardian, and maybe Aegis if the situation calls for something different.

In addition to the general weaknesses of ER that human players experience, heroes also have these problems:
* They don't pre-prot. You'll have to do it manually.
* They don't cover ER to keep it from being stripped. You have to do it manually.
* They don't understand to spam spells to gain energy. This means that Prot Bond just isn't going to work.
* They do not prioritize Infuse unless it's the only spot heal on the bar. You deal with this by making it the only spot heal on the bar.

Life Bringing · Jan 30, 2010, 03:22 AM // 03:22

People still use N/Rts because they can pack offensive assistance and shit like weakness and shadow of fear very easily. Additionally, N/Rts have hawt party healing through PwK and Life.

Lanier · Jan 30, 2010, 03:32 AM // 03:32

E/Mo's are definitly the way to go. I starting using an ER protter build on Zhed a few weeks ago and i havnt taken him out of my party since. The difference in party survivability is very significant.

Zhed uses: ER, AoR, Protective Spirit, Spirit Bond, Infuse, Dismiss, Aegis, and Life Attunement
Prot: 12 Energy Storage: 11+1+1 Heal: 6

JDRyder · Mar 27, 2010, 09:38 PM // 21:38

tbh i don't really see the point of the ele prot build. Generally discord way with monk hench is good enough. Sure the ele prot build may offer better party survivability, but if you actually need that much survivability you'd be better off changing your playstyle to something more effective (eg killing healers 1st rather than tab+space bar

) or joining a decent guild

Dusk_ · Mar 27, 2010, 10:51 PM // 22:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

tbh i don't really see the point of the ele prot build. Generally discord way with monk hench is good enough. Sure the ele prot build may offer better party survivability, but if you actually need that much survivability you'd be better off changing your playstyle to something more effective (eg killing healers 1st rather than tab+space bar

) or joining a decent guild

Hilarious that you'd call an ER Ele "too much survivability". The typical Discordway is so overloaded with heals and prots, it's not even funny.

JDRyder · Mar 27, 2010, 11:40 PM // 23:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dusk_

Hilarious that you'd call an ER Ele "too much survivability". The typical Discordway is so overloaded with heals and prots, it's not even funny.

It also has damage unlike the ER ele

Xenomortis · Mar 27, 2010, 11:46 PM // 23:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

It also has damage unlike the ER ele

Well yes, but comparing a 4 bar team build to a single bar hero build is retarded.

maxxfury · Mar 28, 2010, 12:37 AM // 00:37

With 6 heroes then dedicating one slot for an infoozer is almost a no brainer due to how OP they are.

If your h&h then maybe its better to take hybrid offensive heroes + monk hench as they really crap all over the output of the damage henchies (unless something drastically changed with the hench bar rerolls) unless the area is REALLY tough and needs the extra broken defense the infoozer brings, but then that also means different tactics also.

Dusk_ · Mar 28, 2010, 02:39 AM // 02:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

It also has damage unlike the ER ele

2 Damage/support heroes plus 1 non-gimped Player build can easily match or exceed Discord's damage.

Discordway is at best an effective means of making non-damage dealing classes able to kill things quickly. At worst, it's a gimped crutch that sacrifices your strongest build (yours) just to make your Heroes a tiny bit better.

JDRyder · Mar 28, 2010, 03:38 PM // 15:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dusk_

2 Damage/support heroes plus 1 non-gimped Player build can easily match or exceed Discord's damage.

Discordway is at best an effective means of making non-damage dealing classes able to kill things quickly. At worst, it's a gimped crutch that sacrifices your strongest build (yours) just to make your Heroes a tiny bit better.

And 3 good damage heros + 2 monk henchs can exceed both. I myself use a 3 ele setup when going solo.

Also imo H/H is a crutch in itself, for most people anyway. You kind of have to work around what the AI can actually use well rather than whats "good"

Xenomortis · Mar 28, 2010, 04:29 PM // 16:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

Also imo H/H is a crutch in itself, for most people anyway. You kind of have to work around what the AI can actually use well rather than whats "good"

I think you're confused as to what "crutch" actually means.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiktionary

Noun

crutch (plural crutches)

A device to assist in motion as a cane, especially one that provides support under the arm to reduce weight on a leg.
- He walked on crutches for a month until the cast was removed from his leg.
Something that supports, often used negatively to indicate that it is not needed and causes an unhealthful dependency; a prop
- Alcohol became a crutch to help him through the long nights; eventually it killed him.

H/Hing isn't a crutch. If you're used to or expect people to play with decent players then H/Hing is more like breaking your leg.

As for the ER Ele being too much defense; well there are times when the two monk henchmen simply do not suffice and you want the large energy pool and returns that ER gives to churn out much needed prots.

JDRyder · Mar 28, 2010, 04:46 PM // 16:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

I think you're confused as to what "crutch" actually means.

H/Hing isn't a crutch. If you're used to or expect people to play with decent players then H/Hing is more like breaking your leg.

As for the ER Ele being too much defense; well there are times when the two monk henchmen simply do not suffice and you want the large energy pool and returns that ER gives to churn out much needed prots.

Or you could just just put wards on eles and keep the damage :P

Xenomortis · Mar 28, 2010, 06:02 PM // 18:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

Or you could just just put wards on eles and keep the damage :P

What damage? Ele damage?
No, I want solid defense and Wards require me to stand in one spot and eat the AoE for the full duration.