Curse

The Josip · Jan 03, 2010, 07:45 PM // 19:45

I got tired with necros and am looking at alternatives, if nothing else then for fun.

My previous N/Rt was sabway one but with Xinrae and Vengeful. Not really sure why no one uses Vengeful, I know hero will use it as a heal but chance to use it properly is very high. Also, Recuperation.

My current E/Mo uses Ether, Restoration, Prot spirit, Bond, Aegis. And then Heal Other, Healing Breeze and Patient Spirit. Dwayna's Kiss is on MM necro with whom I'm still experimenting.

What I like about N/Rt is that he not only heals but also deals damage, which I find good when everyone is at max health. Unlike E/Mo who just stands still then, N/Rt can help finish off. Recuperation helps a lot. However, I find E/Mo more reliable, even if that means manually clicking on Ether in very rare cases. I don't use Infuse on him because it's too risky (tried it, wasn't satisfied). Another advantage is that I can take whatever other heroes I want - I dont need to take MM to feed energy.

Now, I've 2 questions:

1) Why do people use N/Rt? Is it still better overall?

2) Should I make changes to my E/Mo build?

Braxton619 · Jan 03, 2010, 08:00 PM // 20:00

In vanquishes, I use ER Protter to heal my team. Even if Ether is stripped, he has enough energy to maintain the whole team (w/ 2 monk hench). This is the build I use:

Give the hero a +20 energy staff with 20% enchantment.

Yasmine · Jan 03, 2010, 08:10 PM // 20:10

I'd like to ask some questions to those that use e/mo hero too - I'd like to try it, but i confess, i'm a little uncertain - does it require micro? And do you have to flag it back in areas with enchant stripping or it can deal with it?

AtomicMew · Jan 03, 2010, 08:10 PM // 20:10

Vengeful is bad because the damage is disperse and untargeted. In other words, in won't actually increase your relevant DPS. It also means you can't have things like splinter weapon or weapon of warding on you.

As for N/rt vs E/mo, they both have their ups and downs, but most people agree that E/mo is generally better.

The Josip · Jan 03, 2010, 08:20 PM // 20:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yasmine

I'd like to ask some questions to those that use e/mo hero too - I'd like to try it, but i confess, i'm a little uncertain - does it require micro? And do you have to flag it back in areas with enchant stripping or it can deal with it?

No micro. I can't stand hero builds that I have to micro, I feel like I'm playing Hero Battles then. If I wanted to micro I would be playing strategy games.

Very rarely my EMo will be in some situation that requires me to cast Ether for him (or prioritize it), or pre-cast prot spirit on someone. But we're talking about extreme situations here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by trcvrs

Vengeful is bad because the damage is disperse and untargeted. In other words, in won't actually increase your relevant DPS.

I see what you mean, but isn't that what MM also does? Those minions are quite random, arrive to the battlefield late, run around headlessly, and occasionally die and explode. I assume in this case a bit of distraction makes them worthvile.. I guess.

Quote:

It also means you can't have things like splinter weapon or weapon of warding on you.

I don't even use splinter because I usually run all-caster team, with the exception of Paragon/Ranger. Not sure if it's worthvile to take splinter just for him.

I don't use Warding either, because my Nrt used Xinrae and Vengeful, so not only would I have to replace Vengeful but also Xinrae/WoRemedy. What elite would that NRt use then?

Braxton619 · Jan 03, 2010, 08:27 PM // 20:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yasmine

I'd like to ask some questions to those that use e/mo hero too - I'd like to try it, but i confess, i'm a little uncertain - does it require micro? And do you have to flag it back in areas with enchant stripping or it can deal with it?

No, an ER Protter has about 100 energy so even with ER stripped... they can still spam the skills. Trust me, I VQed a lot of strip areas, and no problem with mine.

ER = Infinite Energy
N/RT = Must have stuff killed to get energy.. most of the time E/Mo is better.

The Josip · Jan 03, 2010, 08:41 PM // 20:41

By the way, aren't +hp mods better than +energy? Or not in this case? That is, should my EMo be in Radiant and +5+5 staff, or should he go with hp mods?

Mesmer in Need · Jan 03, 2010, 08:49 PM // 20:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Braxton619

In vanquishes, I use ER Protter to heal my team. Even if Ether is stripped, he has enough energy to maintain the whole team (w/ 2 monk hench).

What's the point of three healers on a team? If you need the extra monk just to back up the ele when ER get stripped, you would be better off just dropping the ele for a support role with damage.

Braxton619 · Jan 03, 2010, 09:03 PM // 21:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Josip

By the way, aren't +hp mods better than +energy? Or not in this case? That is, should my EMo be in Radiant and +5+5 staff, or should he go with hp mods?

On my ER, I put all HP mods on him. Then I give him a +20 energy staff with 20% enchanting. He has 86 energy with those modifications. He never runs out of energy even if ER is stripped. He also has about 600 health.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesmer in Need

What's the point of three healers on a team? If you need the extra monk just to back up the ele when ER get stripped, you would be better off just dropping the ele for a support role with damage.

In vanquishing, I usually take the following henchman: 2 monk henchman, Herta, warrior or ele hench

Heroes: Spirit Spammer/Melee Support (SSMS), ER Protter (ER), and Jagged Bones Minion Bomber (JBMB)

I spam SY and do about 250-400 DPS. Groups normally go down in seconds.

Xenomortis · Jan 03, 2010, 09:05 PM // 21:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Josip

1) Why do people use N/Rt? Is it still better overall?

2) Should I make changes to my E/Mo build?

People use N/Rts for a few reasons. They're more reliable than Monk heroes thanks to Soul Reaping and they're in the Sabway setup and fit into the Discord setup.
E/Mo is relatively new in comparison to N/Rt and has not caught on as of yet. I hold that an E/Mo with ER is the strongest known option for a hero backliner.

Which bond are you using? Life Bond? Prot Bond? I would really not recommend maintained enchantments on a hero apart from possibly Life Attunement. I would take Dwayna's Kiss instead, with multiple enchantments it can become a very strong heal - especially if your team has the capacity for an Aegis chain and Orders.
I take Infuse myself, but I understand why some choose not to and it isn't something I'm going to argue against.

You mention your unwillingness to Micro. An ER Ele hero will perform better than a N/Rt with micro simply due to the powerful energy management and prots. With no micro, the two are closer in comparison, but in my experience the Ele is still clearly ahead.

The Josip · Jan 03, 2010, 09:45 PM // 21:45

Oh, I meant Spirit Bond. Don't like maintained enchants.

Xenomortis · Jan 03, 2010, 10:01 PM // 22:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Josip

Oh, I meant Spirit Bond. Don't like maintained enchants.

Oops, didn't realise that appeared to be missing when I glanced through.
I would say lose Healing Breeze for DKiss and put Dwayna's Sorrow on the MM instead.

The Josip · Jan 03, 2010, 10:41 PM // 22:41

Dwayna Sorrow is already on MM.. I just dont know what else to put.
I had DKiss on EMo already, testing it. But I thought Breeze might be better. Still not sure.

maxxfury · Jan 03, 2010, 11:02 PM // 23:02

off the top of my head my vekk runs :
[Infuse]
[prot spirit]
[spirit bond]
[aegis]
[jameis gaze] or [dwaynas kiss]
[aura or resto]
[ether renewal]
[life attunement]*disabled and micro'd at start of zone

Runs pretty much on auto pilot other than the usual PS precast for mobs that i do with any hero backline.

leave small packet pressure/condition/hex clean up to someone else

HigherMinion · Jan 04, 2010, 01:59 AM // 01:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Braxton619

In vanquishes, I use ER Protter to heal my team. Even if Ether is stripped, he has enough energy to maintain the whole team (w/ 2 monk hench). This is the build I use:

Give the hero a +20 energy staff with 20% enchantment.

TWO monk henchies AND this? Have you tried removing one of the monks? Did it fail?

Especially in vanquishes, where there are shrines, I hate Rebirth. Especially on an ER when they should maintain high energy. I usually use Aegis instead of the res and Reversal of fortune when not using LA.

But if I am running an ER hero, I only bring one Healer Henchman. It should be sufficient.

EDIT: Oh, I don't use Dwayna's Kiss... I use shield guardian instead; Infuse suffices for heals. Vekk can spam nao.

upier · Jan 04, 2010, 09:34 AM // 09:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

TWO monk henchies AND this? Have you tried removing one of the monks? Did it fail?

I think I also use 2 monks hench and an ER protter.
The problem is that when you are abusing the best damage dealing options in the game, you might as well go with more support because you are are able to provide sufficient damage with just 2 or 3 slots.

Yasmine · Jan 04, 2010, 10:52 AM // 10:52

Thanks to pple who replyed to my other questions, now i have more

Is an e/mo healer/protter viable in 4/6 men areas?

EDIT: tried an e/mo hybrid for fun in a 4 men area:
result: some granite and an elite me tome... on topic, apart from obviously missing any good self heal, the hero fails to use infuse properly - might be just my impression, but it seems he used it more often on minions between battles then to heal fellow party members in need ><

mage767 · Jan 05, 2010, 01:19 AM // 01:19

Dude, just combine ER and resto skills into one amazing ER resto build. It's that simple.

HigherMinion · Jan 05, 2010, 02:17 AM // 02:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

I think I also use 2 monks hench and an ER protter.
The problem is that when you are abusing the best damage dealing options in the game, you might as well go with more support because you are are able to provide sufficient damage with just 2 or 3 slots.

I prefer more damage slots and two "keep alive" players maximum. Besides, with more damage, the faster the enemies fall. The faster they fall, the less protection you need.

Simple, but effective.

maxxfury · Jan 05, 2010, 02:42 AM // 02:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

I prefer more damage slots and two "keep alive" players maximum. Besides, with more damage, the faster the enemies fall. The faster they fall, the less protection you need.

Simple, but effective.

Especially with all the midline defense you can cram in along side the high output offense without compromising the damage.
*stuff like Aegis, enfeebling blood, reckless haste blah blah

With an extra backline tho you can just sleep thru most areas and watch tv or whatever. autopilot style.