Curse

Daesu · Apr 23, 2010, 08:26 AM // 08:26

I believe that 3-heroes builds that are customized to what your character is doing are better than the more generic 3-heroes build for either caster or physical.

These are what I use for my characters:

1. Rit: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...2&postcount=31

2. Paragon: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...32&postcount=7

3. Melee physical: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...64&postcount=1

4. Ele:

N/Mo
8 Protection Prayers
7 Healing Prayers
12+1+3 Death
8+1 SR

Aotl or JB
Bone Minions
Death Nova
Dark Bond (effective even at 0 Blood) or Putrid Bile or Blood of the Master (if you have problems keeping minions alive between mobs)
Dwayna's Sorrow (micro to also use as AoE cover enchant, if necessary)
Protective Spirit
Aegis
Masochism or Res

SoS Rit
12+1+1 Channeling
10-12+1 Restoration
the rest Spawning

SoS
Spirit Siphon
BloodSong or Splinter Weapon
Painful Bond
Flesh of my Flesh or Death Pact Signet (if res shrine enabled)
Mend Body & Soul
Spirit Light
Protective was Kaolai

SoGM Rit
12+1+1 Communing
12+1 Spawning

Boon of Creation (in areas with enchant removal either cover with DS or use SoC)
Disenchantment
Signet of Ghostly Might or Soul Twisting
Armor of Unfeeling
Dissonance
ShadowSong
Anguish
Pain

Usage:

Flag your heroes close by, pull with long/flat bow, move back and let melee minions move forward to enage the approaching enemies, unflag heroes. Micro PS when and if necessary.

Terrible Surgeon · Apr 23, 2010, 09:25 AM // 09:25

I use two AoTL necros both rit secondary. But each with protective was Kaoli and party heals (life on one and recup on the other) plus FoMF res. I take one monk hero with WoH and aegis. I play melee and in a party of 4 proceed to shred anything in HM minus elite areas [UW]. Not too hard to do with 19 minions though.

Myotheraccount · Apr 23, 2010, 09:58 AM // 09:58

Nothing special. All your builds are very inflexible. When making a build you should allow for plenty of variants and see what skills can be changed.

For example your spiritway. Both SL and MBaS can be replaced. Spirit Siphon is also optional since SoS consumes very little energy. Flesh of my flesh can be dropped. AoU not always needed.

Then there are mistakes. For example no SoA and that skill is a must have. Aegis mainbar'd when you have half the henchies using it. Bone Minions that you run with AotL when AotL is used to avoid taking any animates and thus compressing your bar. Boneys will just kill off your lvl21 minions from AotL. DS is always optional. No BotM so GL getting your minions from one mob to another. Last but not least, no Splinter or AR...

Same principle applies to just for each and every one of your builds.

Don't get me wrong. They are nice(ish). But, lots of problems that can be avoided.

My spiritway setup.
OAcQQLQ2k7ixkAAAAAAAAA - Should be self explanatory.
OACQMVzrZ5EAgxAADTAA - FomF, SL, AR, Destruction, Agony, Fall Back! (drop resto attribute), Spirit Siphon, AoU, res and many more can go to optionals.
OACQMOTn93Man5ObbOAA - AoU, SB! res.
OANQQyBbhKgoB4B1D3VAAA - AotL ftw! Time it right and it will spawn you a 11 lvl21 miions army in a flash. Aegis optional. Henchies have it. DS redundant.

Yasmine · Apr 23, 2010, 12:16 PM // 12:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myotheraccount

Bone Minions that you run with AotL when AotL is used to avoid taking any animates and thus compressing your bar. Boneys will just kill off your lvl21 minions from AotL. No BotM so GL getting your minions from one mob to another. Last but not least, no Splinter or AR....

I don't fully agree with this: because of the hero AI and AoTL long recharge the hero, with just AoTL, most of the time, will not have a full number of minions. So, even if bone minions conflict with AoTL, removing it isn't perfect either. Also, in my experience, BotM is rarely needed to travel from group to group. Considering the group doesn't have a melee char, AR and splinter seem to be quite a waste too imho.

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Originally Posted by Myotheraccount

Aegis optional. Henchies have it. .

Well, that depends on what henchies you are taking. Considering that a healer henchie would probably be a necessity almost everywhere for this setup, bringing also a prot henchie (only prot henchies - and not even all of them - have aegis) seems to be an overkill.

IronSheik · Apr 23, 2010, 02:48 PM // 14:48

Too many options depending on build.

With rit I can run anywhere from 3 melees while I run SoH/GDW, or I can run 3 rits with Destructive was glaive damage spam.

General setup is one MM, one support (Para, Curse), and one damage.

Mhenlo, prot, cynn, zho

Myotheraccount · Apr 23, 2010, 02:51 PM // 14:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yasmine

I don't fully agree with this: because of the hero AI and AoTL long recharge the hero, with just AoTL, most of the time, will not have a full number of minions. So, even if bone minions conflict with AoTL, removing it isn't perfect either. Also, in my experience, BotM is rarely needed to travel from group to group. Considering the group doesn't have a melee char, AR and splinter seem to be quite a waste too imho.

I remove bone minions. It's not worth trading off two lvl21 horrors for two lvl14 bone minions. AotL can be easily timed to exploit the entire mob in one cast and even if it's still on CD just wait until it recharges. Still takes the same time as to wait for your MM to exploit ecerything with minions. Alternatively just move on. One way or another AotL has can get a minion army up faster than other animate spells in the long run.

BotM is needed. Sometimes you have to run quite a long distance. Without BotM your minions becomes extremely weak and get owned by rangeds classes before they can do anything. I dont like to neglect minion's wall factor.

Splinter doesnt need melee wtf. It can as well be cast on a wanting/spearing caster to enjoy the aoe effect. Considering that henchies always wand and your heroes will too because of long cd's especially communing rit. Less so for AR but it can be cast on Ebon Sin or a minion. Melee enemies can come in range of some of your ranged character and AR can be cast on them. Also dont forget that you got minions that are melee if you so want it.

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Well, that depends on what henchies you are taking. Considering that a healer henchie would probably be a necessity almost everywhere for this setup, bringing also a prot henchie (only prot henchies - and not even all of them - have aegis) seems to be an overkill.

Hence why I got aegis optional. Some henchies dont have Aegis hats when you take it. Most however do so you dont take aegis. Chaining aegis in PvE is redundant faggotry imo. :3

Daesu · Apr 23, 2010, 03:14 PM // 15:14

@Terrible Surgeon: Note that this is customized for a caster character though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myotheraccount

Nothing special. All your builds are very inflexible. When making a build you should allow for plenty of variants and see what skills can be changed.

Sure.

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For example your spiritway. Both SL and MBaS can be replaced.

What would you replace them with? Since my SoS rit specializes in restoration as a secondary and you are replacing 2/3 of his restoration skills in the bar.

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Spirit Siphon is also optional since SoS consumes very little energy. Flesh of my flesh can be dropped. AoU not always needed.

SoS doesn't consumes very little energy, it consumes 0 energy. Again, what would you replace them with?

AoU is more important for communing spirits than channeling spirits because communing spirits are more expensive in general, with higher energy and longer recharge, Pain is an exception.

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Then there are mistakes. For example no SoA and that skill is a must have.

SoA is not a must have, especially when you are not supporting a tank which is one advantage of customizing your heroes to your character type. With PS and heals, your caster should be fine.

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Aegis mainbar'd when you have half the henchies using it.

Aegis has a 30s recharge and even if a hench brings it, the AI chains Aegis very well. Besides, with this setup, I don't need to bring the protection hench. I never bring protection hench in all my other setup anyway, in most areas. I only need 1 healer hench for all my setups.

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Bone Minions that you run with AotL when AotL is used to avoid taking any animates and thus compressing your bar. Boneys will just kill off your lvl21 minions from AotL.

Aotl has a 45s recharge, if you have to depend on it for minion generation, you won't have many bone horrors generally. Bone minions still make the best bombs because they are cheap and you get 2 of them per corpse.

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DS is always optional.

I put DS in because I find it useful on minion bombs for party heals and also as a cheap, fast recharging, AoE cover enchantment for my MM's Dark Bond, and my communing rit's BoC.

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No BotM so GL getting your minions from one mob to another.

I wouldn't put BotM on a minion bomber because the MM AI would keep healing his minions and preventing them from acting as bombs while sacrificing his own hp in the process. Typically, your healers AI is enough to help get most of your minions from mob to mob.

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Last but not least, no Splinter or AR...

That is an advantage of customizing your heroes to your character type.

Splinter is not as useful on a caster because your attacks are slow and your casters would probably do better spending their time casting than auto attacking.

AR has adjacent range (i.e. shoulder to shoulder) which is not where your ranged casters would be most of the time. I have also never seen them cast AR on spirits on their own, but if they do I would add it.

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One way or another AotL has can get a minion army up faster than other animate spells in the long run.

Only if you already have lots of exploitable corpses at the end of the battle. During battle you waiting for its 45s recharge is going to be difficult to maintain your minion army. Additionally, your spirits also help to tank so you don't need your minion wall as much as you think.

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BotM is needed. Sometimes you have to run quite a long distance. Without BotM your minions becomes extremely weak and get owned by rangeds classes before they can do anything. I dont like to neglect minion's wall factor.

BotM would run counter to minion bombing unless you intend to micro it on and off battles, but I dont think that is necessary.

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Splinter doesnt need melee wtf. It can as well be cast on a wanting/spearing caster to enjoy the aoe effect. Considering that henchies always wand and your heroes will too because of long cd's especially communing rit.

I would rather they spend their time casting spells than wanding. I agree that the communing rit would probably have more time to wand but the AI is not smart enough to know that unless you want to micro it again in every battle.

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Less so for AR but it can be cast on Ebon Sin or a minion. Melee enemies can come in range of some of your ranged character and AR can be cast on them. Also dont forget that you got minions that are melee if you so want it.

I have never seen the AI cast AR on ebon sins, minions, or spirits, unless you intend to micro this also. But if they do it on spirits or minions, I would add it.

Yasmine · Apr 23, 2010, 03:24 PM // 15:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myotheraccount

AotL can be easily timed to exploit the entire mob in one cast and even if it's still on CD just wait until it recharges. Still takes the same time as to wait for your MM to exploit everything with minions. Alternatively just move on. One way or another AotL has can get a minion army up faster than other animate spells in the long run.

Reason I'd bring bone minions on AoTL bar too, is because after a battle, I just move on (ofc, it's not the best strategy but the mm should have enough minions anyway, so the difference will - almost always - be neglectable). Considering that minions take most dmg in this set up, you might end up with very few minions after a battle, forcing you to wait (unless you micro AoTL). Your MM also risks to be totally useless if there are foes exploiting corpses.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myotheraccount

BotM is needed. Sometimes you have to run quite a long distance.

If you have to run quite a long distance only sometimes, why would you need BotM anywhere?

I use a slightly different play stile though (more similar to a melee one) so that might be the reason why I am not bothering fully with minion wall.

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Originally Posted by Myotheraccount

Splinter doesnt need melee wtf. It can as well be cast on a wanting/spearing caster to enjoy the aoe effect. Considering that henchies always wand and your heroes will too because of long cd's especially communing rit. Less so for AR but it can be cast on Ebon Sin or a minion. Melee enemies can come in range of some of your ranged character and AR can be cast on them. Also dont forget that you got minions that are melee if you so want it.

Will the hero cast properly AR on minions or summons? Or you mean microing it? And splinter on minions (if the hero would cast it) would be far from great (considering how fast the minions can die, no control other targets, etc...). The sos rt will not wand (it will be holding ashes all or almost all the time),mm is not going to wand much as well, which leaves you (and if are spearing a lot, then something is wrong

), communing rt and henchies with a spear or bow (I'm supposing you are not bringing war henchies here) - which you might or might not have with you (a para is aviable only in nf and ranger henchies don't really shine).

Myotheraccount · Apr 23, 2010, 03:57 PM // 15:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yasmine

Reason I'd bring bone minions on AoTL bar too, is because after a battle, I just move on (ofc, it's not the best strategy but the mm should have enough minions anyway, so the difference will - almost always - be neglectable). Considering that minions take most dmg in this set up, you might end up with very few minions after a battle, forcing you to wait (unless you micro AoTL). Your MM also risks to be totally useless if there are foes exploiting corpses.

After battle you will have a few corpses to exploit, ket's say 5. It will take you the same time to exploit sufficient ammount of them as it will take you to wait for AotL to recharge. If I don't micro, after the mob is wiped, maximum recharge time I had left on AotL was 20 seconds usually less and mostly none. If you were starting with 0 minions than it will take you nearly the same time as AotL's entire recharge.

That and also my previous points about bad synergy between AotL-based build and low level animates.

Also whats wrong with microing? I micro allot because it boosts my build's performance. But AotL you don't have to micro that much.

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If you have to run quite a long distance only sometimes, why would you need BotM anywhere?

I use a slightly different play stile though (more similar to a melee one) so that might be the reason why I am not bothering fully with minion wall.

I c+space too. Though I use AP spiker because its so damn awesome with spirits.

You run long distance quite often actually. If youre expirienced you should know. With BotM you get more minions from mob to mob and you can heal them up before and after you engage so they can wall better (can be crucial hen just engaging). With such an enormous wall spiritway has, MB saccing with BotM is not a problem because nobody gets hit much anyway.

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Will the hero cast properly AR on minions or summons? Or you mean microing it? And splinter on minions (if the hero would cast it) would be far from great (considering how fast the minions can die, no control other targets, etc...). The sos rt will not wand (it will be holding ashes all or almost all the time),mm is not going to wand much as well, which leaves you (and if are spearing a lot, then something is wrong

), communing rt and henchies with a spear or bow (I'm supposing you are not bringing war henchies here) - which you might or might not have with you (a para is aviable only in nf and ranger henchies don't really shine).

They will. Better than any player even. O: I play with AP spiker and often run AR on my SoS and he easily casts AR on the sin the split second it spawns. He even casts splinter on him sometiems. :3

Heroes are wonderful with AR and splinter. They know exactly which ally is positioned best to exploit those buff to the fullest.

Also, heroes dont cast splinter on minions that are near dead. Considering minions will hold a ball of foes casting Splinter on them is pretty great, actually. Not that there are many variants you can replace splinter with anyway. SoS may not wand often but Communing rit does and MB does too. Henchies wand allot. When facing big mob I usually precast spirits and spread splinter. Then flag the group behind spirits and MB, pull the mob and watch how it explodes.

Also, in GW any class can wear any weapon. I'm getting spears for my rits because it makes them come closer to the mob and reduces the risk of planting spirits too far when im not pre-planting manually. :3

Arrogant Bastard · Apr 23, 2010, 04:34 PM // 16:34

I like using ST on the offensive communing rit. It means that the spirits will always be ready for each mob and the hero can manage using expensive spirits better.

With the recharge time reduced, ST makes this spiritway faster since there is less down time and you really don't have to flag+pull as much (I rarely do).

Myotheraccount · Apr 23, 2010, 04:39 PM // 16:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

What would you replace them with? Since my SoS rit specializes in restoration as a secondary and you are replacing 2/3 of his restoration skills in the bar.

Read my other post where I posted my spiritway builds. Taking heals with spiritway is pretty redundant. Like I said before mine only runs around with PwK most of the time. Sometimes also taking FoMF.

With awesomeness that is spiritway you don't need more heal that one monk henchie can provide you with.

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SoS doesn't consumes very little energy, it consumes 0 energy. Again, what would you replace them with?

Congrats on best poor reading skills I have seen in a while.

Hint: The abbreviation SoS refers to the name of the build. Not Signet of Spirits.

Also, read my post with builds. SoS rit can loads of variants. That includes SoH, Smite Hex and Condition if you are running a melee build.

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AoU is more important for communing spirits than channelling spirits because communing spirits are more expensive in general, with higher energy and longer recharge, Pain is an exception.

Nah. I run without it most of the time. I replace it with Fall Back! Cause walking sucks. My spirits have no problem surviving.

I only run AoU in areas with shitton of strong AoE. I also ran it when fighting Rotscale.

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SoA is not a must have, especially when you are not supporting a tank which is one advantage of customizing your heroes to your character type. With PS and heals, your caster should be fine.

SoA allows you to take less heal that means more domags. Mobs on HM also like to gang up on one character where SoA shines. There are more benefits and uses of SoA in PvE. I can't be bothered to list them all.

The reasons why SoA is a must have should be pretty self explanatory for people with experience.

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Aegis has a 30s recharge and even if a hench brings it, the AI chains Aegis very well. Besides, with this setup, I don't need to bring the protection hench. I never bring protection hench in all my other setup anyway, in most areas. I only need 1 healer hench for all my setups.

Don't care if they chain it well. It's redundant to chain it because you never need it.

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Aotl has a 45s recharge, if you have to depend on it for minion generation, you won't have many bone horrors generally. Bone minions still make the best bombs because they are cheap and you get 2 of them per corpse.

Bad theorycrafting. You making it sound like every time you wipe a mob and have corpses available AotL is magically put on 45s recharge. Lmao.

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I put DS in because I find it useful on minion bombs for party heals and also as a cheap, fast recharging, AoE cover enchantment for my MM's Dark Bond, and my communing rit's BoC.

Not saying it's bad. But it's not required either. So if you making a build for everyone I'd suggest keeping these skills optionals.

I almost never run DS anymore. I just dont need it so no point wasting a skill slot and attributes on it. I'd rather have a 6 sec SoA.

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I wouldn't put BotM on a minion bomber because the MM AI would keep healing his minions and preventing them from acting as bombs while sacrificing his own hp in the process. Typically, your healers AI is enough to help get most of your minions from mob to mob.

More theorycrafting. No heroes dont sac themselves to death anymore. =/

Plus MB hides behind a huge meat wall of spirits and minions and never takes a hit. So saccing is not a problem. You shouldn’t take it into consideration.

I like BotM because a) allows me to get more minions from mob to mob. b) Allows me to engage with healthier minions. c) Improves minion's walling ability. Long running from mob to mob happens pretty often. Sometimes you encounter very small mobs on the way to a big one so there are not enough corpses to sustain a healthy, big minion wall with exploiting alone.

The reason why people stopped running BotM is because of multi-MM Discord and retarded elitism.

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That is an advantage of customizing your heroes to your character type.

Lmao. Splinter works well for all classes. It is triggered by any weapon type so any class can enjoy its awesome AoE effect. Less so for AR but then you got minions and ebon sin and some mobs run close to the ranged party members.

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Splinter is not as useful on a caster because your attacks are slow and your casters would probably do better spending their time casting than auto attacking.

Irrelevant. Splinter is still a good, strong AoE no reason not to have it. Plus you got minions.

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AR has adjacent range (i.e. shoulder to shoulder) which is not where your ranged casters would be most of the time. I have also never seen them cast AR on spirits on their own, but if they do I would add it.

Not sure about casting it on spirits. I know for fact the spam it on my ebon sin and minions or anything that has enough foes around it.

I'd keep it variants and add Splinter instead though.

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Only if you already have lots of exploitable corpses at the end of the battle. During battle you waiting for its 45s recharge is going to be difficult to maintain your minion army. Additionally, your spirits also help to tank so you don't need your minion wall as much as you think.

Which is exactly the case most of the time. You also don't need to keep exploiting inside battle not to mention battles end fast. Even if battle is truly long and you get AotL recharged it's better to exploit all the available corpses and spawn spittoon on minions at once. It's a law of nature. : P

Also please don't view walling as spirit's primary purpose.

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BotM would run counter to minion bombing unless you intend to micro it on and off battles, but I don’t think that is necessary.

Theorycraft alert! No it won’t. Minions still explode but exploding your entire wall kinda sucks.

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I would rather they spend their time casting spells than wanding. I agree that the communing rit would probably have more time to wand but the AI is not smart enough to know that unless you want to micro it again in every battle.

Spirits have long recharge, heals are needed rarely same for prots. So prepare yourself to see your heroes wanding quite allot.
Also in my experience spirits were smart enough to cast splinter on a character that was wanding instead of one hat was actively casting.

I also see nothing wrong with microing. Boosts performance greatly. Heck to fully exploit spirits you must micro. (You probably won't understand this.)

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I have never seen the AI cast AR on ebon sins, minions, or spirits, unless you intend to micro this also. But if they do it on spirits or minions, I would add it.

Really? Strange. Open your eyes like that > O___O

I see them casting AR on minions allot. I often get AR on my ebon sin. Heck I get it cast on him every time hes spawns with a few mob around him or not. Dunno about spirits but it's still awesome.

AR is a good skill. I'd mainbar Splinter instead though. Well actually I'd mainbar both. :P

Arrogant Bastard · Apr 23, 2010, 05:12 PM // 17:12

I won't address all the points, but he is right about BotM.

It gets a bad rep from all the Discordway nuthuggers cause with that many minions it is possible for the Necro to sac himself.

It isn't counter productive to a MB because minions die fast as it is when they are at full health. Letting your minions run in at half or less means you will get 0-1 death nova's off and have no meat shield left.

Yasmine · Apr 23, 2010, 05:57 PM // 17:57

A hero will cast splinter on minions and summoned sin quite nicely (though they will never cast it on a char with a staff or wand unless microed), but on what condition would they cast AR on those and spirits? Do it require a certain number of foes in the range or something? I tried against master of dmg, but the hero never use AR...

Daesu · Apr 23, 2010, 06:08 PM // 18:08

@Arrogant Bastard: I put ST and BoTM as variants.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myotheraccount

After battle you will have a few corpses to exploit, ket's say 5. It will take you the same time to exploit sufficient ammount of them as it will take you to wait for AotL to recharge. If I don't micro, after the mob is wiped, maximum recharge time I had left on AotL was 20 seconds usually less and mostly none. If you were starting with 0 minions than it will take you nearly the same time as AotL's entire recharge.

It is not after the battle that I am worried about. It is during battle that Aotl alone would not supply enough bombs.

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Taking heals with spiritway is pretty redundant. Like I said before mine only runs around with PwK most of the time.

Taking the right heals is not redundant. PwK serves as greater armor for the caster and a good party heal. MB&S synergizes with the spirits as a condition removal + some heals. Since I only take 1 healer hench, he may not come with a condition removal equipped (e.g. Mhenlo). Spirit Light is more optional but why refuse such a huge heal for such a low energy cost?

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Also, read my post with builds. SoS rit can loads of variants. That includes SoH, Smite Hex and Condition if you are running a melee build.

Read, this is a build for a caster character, not melee.

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You run long distance quite often actually. If youre expirienced you should know. With BotM you get more minions from mob to mob and you can heal them up before and after you engage so they can wall better (can be crucial hen just engaging). With such an enormous wall spiritway has, MB saccing with BotM is not a problem because nobody gets hit much anyway.

I think distances between mobs can be different for different areas, so I would add that as a variant.

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More theorycrafting. No heroes dont sac themselves to death anymore. =/

Unless the AI has been updated very recently, I still see heroes sac themselves to death.

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I only run AoU in areas with shitton of strong AoE.

And many areas have strong AoE in HM.

As to your comments on Splinter and AR, I need to do more testing on them because I have never seen the AI casting those on minions, spirits, or ebon sins on their own accord.

@Yasmine: I would check that out after I get home this evening.

Myotheraccount · Apr 23, 2010, 07:09 PM // 19:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

It is not after the battle that I am worried about. It is during battle that Aotl alone would not supply enough bombs.

I usually engage with a bunch of minions. Enough bombs imo. Not that you have to blow up your entire wall or battles last long enough for that to happen. That's why you need BotM.

Oh and if a battle lasts that long, chances are AotL will cd and you raise a huge army at a click of a button.

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Taking the right heals is not redundant. PwK serves as greater armor for the caster and a good party heal. MB&S synergizes with the spirits as a condition removal + some heals. Since I only take 1 healer hench, he may not come with a condition removal equipped (e.g. Mhenlo). Spirit Light is more optional but why refuse such a huge heal for such a low energy cost?

Because it's redundant. You just don't need it.

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Read, this is a build for a caster character, not melee.

Why not melee also? o.O

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Unless the AI has been updated very recently, I still see heroes sac themselves to death.

It been that way for ages. But seeing how you still havent noticed that heroes cast AR on minions and NPC your hero might of died for some other reason.

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And many areas have strong AoE in HM.

Not really.

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As to your comments on Splinter and AR, I need to do more testing on them because I have never seen the AI casting those on minions, spirits, or ebon sins on their own accord.

Noticed that. You should run more stuff and theorycraft less imo.

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I think distances between mobs can be different for different areas, so I would add that as a variant.

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Originally Posted by Daesu

@Arrogant Bastard: I put ST and BoTM as variants.

Ehh. Lol.

Daesu · Apr 24, 2010, 05:48 AM // 05:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yasmine

A hero will cast splinter on minions and summoned sin quite nicely (though they will never cast it on a char with a staff or wand unless microed), but on what condition would they cast AR on those and spirits? Do it require a certain number of foes in the range or something? I tried against master of dmg, but the hero never use AR...

I did some testing and they do cast splinter on ebon sin and minions. Ebon sins are totally not part of the build, and minions are there mainly as bombs anyway so they dont live long enough to make good use of splinter and they have slow attacks. But I would add splinter in as a variant for the auto attack and for those who may want to bring EVAS even though I still have doubts on its effectiveness for this build, without EVAS.

As for AR, I would leave it out since heroes never cast it on spirits, ebon sins, or minions anyhow, even when those are beside a target and AR is the only skill in the hero's bar.

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Originally Posted by Myotheraccount

Because it's redundant. You just don't need it.

I disagree. Having at least one condition removal is still useful even as a caster. I have already addressed your other points, if you read.

Myotheraccount · Apr 24, 2010, 10:28 AM // 10:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

I did some testing and they do cast splinter on ebon sin and minions. Ebon sins are totally not part of the build, and minions are there mainly as bombs anyway so they dont live long enough to make good use of splinter and they have slow attacks. But I would add splinter in as a variant for the auto attack and for those who may want to bring EVAS even though I still have doubts on its effectiveness for this build, without EVAS.

As for AR, I would leave it out since heroes never cast it on spirits, ebon sins, or minions anyhow, even when those are beside a target and AR is the only skill in the hero's bar.

Test more. I helped a friend with a few factions missions yesterday and they cast splinter and AR on minions and ebon sins. They did that since early sabway. Going to screenshot it and post later. Maybe you were unlucky.

Quote:

I disagree. Having at least one condition removal is still useful even as a caster. I have already addressed your other points, if you read.

Uhm. How? There are very few conditions a caster is afraid of. Mainly Daze. But henchies can remove it. You simply don't need a microable condition removal because there wont be many conditions you need to remove asap.

I'm not saying heal is completely redundant. I can believe some playstyles needing it. Physicals will need to take FoMF sometimes to remove blind, weakness and cripple. For a caster however I would suggest Spirit Light since you don't need a condition removal much.

This is coming from an assacaster btw.

Daesu · Apr 24, 2010, 02:18 PM // 14:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myotheraccount

Test more. I helped a friend with a few factions missions yesterday and they cast splinter and AR on minions and ebon sins. They did that since early sabway. Going to screenshot it and post later. Maybe you were unlucky.

I don't know why don't they dont cast it on minions when I tried it, even with only AR on their bar. Yasmine has the same result:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yasmine

...but on what condition would they cast AR on those and spirits? Do it require a certain number of foes in the range or something? I tried against master of dmg, but the hero never use AR...

Quote:

Uhm. How? There are very few conditions a caster is afraid of. Mainly Daze. But henchies can remove it.

The healer hench can't remove conditions if they don't even have a condition removal on their bar and like I have said, I dont bring the protection hench since I have PS and Aegis on my hero and those are all the protection prayers I need.

Mhenlo doesn't carry a condition removal skill, so this depends on your campaign/areas. I still think that having at least one conditional removal is useful even for a caster team regardless of the area.

Myotheraccount · Apr 24, 2010, 05:04 PM // 17:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

I don't know why don't they dont cast it on minions when I tried it, even with only AR on their bar. Yasmine has the same result:

Yasmine's test is flawed. Wtf master of damage. Don't tell me you tested on MoD as well. Lol.

Quote:

The healer hench can't remove conditions if they don't even have a condition removal on their bar and like I have said, I dont bring the protection hench since I have PS and Aegis on my hero and those are all the protection prayers I need.

Mhenlo doesn't carry a condition removal skill, so this depends on your campaign/areas. I still think that having at least one conditional removal is useful even for a caster team regardless of the area.

Sometimes they do. You don't need condition removal anyway. If you need it take FoMF. For example if youre a physical running in an area full of cripple, blind, weakness. Or area that have tons of cripple and you want to move fast. Everywhere else FoMF is not needed and SL is better if you so need heals and that's why it should be optional.

I'm saying this from my expirience btw no theorycrafting.

Yasmine · Apr 24, 2010, 05:12 PM // 17:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myotheraccount

Yasmine's test is flawed. Wtf master of damage.

Maybe, I just took the first foe that doesn't strike back that came in mind. What kind of test would be a good one? In what occasion would they cast AR properly? Does it require a certain number of foes around a target? If yes, how many? If no, what triggers them to use it?