Curse

Daesu · May 20, 2010, 02:10 AM // 02:10

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Originally Posted by Daesu

You can bring all 3 spirits if you want to, so I dont see the problem and I usually bring Life if I go restore.

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Originally Posted by Myotheraccount

That's what I been telling you all along.

Sure, after you have edited your first post, added my suggestions of rejuv/recoup, and removed mention of spot heals from your original post that is...

Your original post was:

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Originally Posted by Myotheraccount

N/Rt 14 Blood, 10 SR, 9 Resto. OoV, Blood Bond, Optional, Ghostmirror Light, Mend Body and Soul, Protective was Kaolai, Life, FoMf. Fill optional with Mark of Fury, Weapon of Warding, Strip Enchantment, FoMF, DPS or anything you like, really. Main idea: OoV that uses a solid N/Rt backbone to support party (which should include a physical, obviously) with heals and physical buffs while also countering it's sac. Ghostmirror eats pressure for breakfast and also counters OoV sac. This build has an optional slot which makes it pretty flexible.

..edited now to look like this:

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Originally Posted by Myotheraccount

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Also, Life won't effect the performance of your bombs but it will help you get your minion wall from a mob to a mob. I hope you won't deny that engaging into a fight with a bunch of pre-made bombs is better than doing so without them. As a result, it actually enhances bombing.

Healing only during 20s intervals is not going to help much for me going from mob to mob.

ashes · May 20, 2010, 07:46 AM // 07:46

10+1+1 Blood Magic, 8+1 Soul Reaping, 12 Restoration

Myotheraccount · May 20, 2010, 12:20 PM // 12:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

Sure, after you have edited your first post, added my suggestions of rejuv/recoup, and removed mention of spot heals from your original post that is...

I always had "or anything you like really" in my post. Those two skill slots are called Optional for a reason. But, since your reading comprehension is obviously lacking, I had to actually mention the two spirits in order to make you stop whining.

I also didn't remove any mention of spot heals. They are still there.

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Healing only during 20s intervals is not going to help much for me going from mob to mob.

It does. You will see that you retain considerably more minions between fights with Life than without. Or in theorycrafting terms, Life gives your minion up to 12 health regen thus increasing their lifespan.

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Originally Posted by ashes

10+1+1 Blood Magic, 8+1 Soul Reaping, 12 Restoration

I presume you have another Hero with condition removal so I like it. Although you should probably use a major Blood Magic rune in order to hit OoV's 14 lifesteal breapoint.

ashes · May 20, 2010, 12:27 PM // 12:27

I think i would prefer the 35hp over the 2hp more lifestealing, now u dont get bonus for ur weapons

AtomicMew · May 22, 2010, 05:44 PM // 17:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashes

10+1+1 Blood Magic, 8+1 Soul Reaping, 12 Restoration

PwK with orders? Two weak spot heals? I think you need to theorycraft harder.

Daesu · May 22, 2010, 05:54 PM // 17:54

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Originally Posted by Myotheraccount

I always had "or anything you like really" in my post. Those two skill slots are called Optional for a reason.
I also didn't remove any mention of spot heals. They are still there.

If that were the case, then there would have been no reason for you to edit out your spot heals from your original post if you stand by your build.

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It does. You will see that you retain considerably more minions between fights with Life than without. Or in theorycrafting terms, Life gives your minion up to 12 health regen thus increasing their lifespan.

Life giving health regen? I think you need to re-check your theory crafting logic.

Spike heals are just different from regen heals when moving minions from mob to mob.

Myotheraccount · May 22, 2010, 08:51 PM // 20:51

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Originally Posted by Daesu

If that were the case, then there would have been no reason for you to edit out your spot heals from your original post if you stand by your build.

I havent. I made FoMF Optional because you don't need res and actually listed Rejuv/Recup as Optional in order to make you stop crying.

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Spike heals are just different from regen heals when moving minions from mob to mob.

Heroes don't cast Recup/Rejuv outise battle. Also, Recup's effect is negated when minions go into negative health degen and Rejuv does not heal minions.

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Originally Posted by trcvrs

PwK with orders? Two weak spot heals? I think you need to theorycraft harder.

You called MBaS and Ghostmirror weak. Maybe you need to go easy on theorycraft and/or improve your reading comprehension. Lol.

Daesu · May 22, 2010, 09:10 PM // 21:10

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Originally Posted by Myotheraccount

I havent. I made FoMF Optional because you don't need res and actually listed Rejuv/Recup as Optional in order to make you stop crying.

My point is, you shouldn't have deleted it from the text of the post.

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Heroes don't cast Recup/Rejuv outise battle.

I don't see how that is relevant. If you really need the life regen outside of battle, how difficult is it to activate it outside of battle?

Myotheraccount · May 22, 2010, 09:26 PM // 21:26

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Originally Posted by Daesu

My point is, you shouldn't have deleted it from the text of the post.

Delete what? Try to make more sense.

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I don't see how that is relevant. If you really need the life regen outside of battle, how difficult is it to activate it outside of battle?

Lol. You amuse me, Daesu. I thought you feared microing like fire and even criticised me it. Now you are doing the opposite. No, it's not hard at all. By all means go and do it. Point being; Recuperation is inefficient in mantaining Minions because it gets overidden by Minion's negative HP degen and Rejuvenation does not affect minions. Furthermore, due to longer recharge of these spirits it is harder to stay in their range. Therefore, Life is generally superior.

Daesu · May 22, 2010, 10:05 PM // 22:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myotheraccount

Point being; Recuperation is inefficient in mantaining Minions because it gets overidden by Minion's negative HP degen and Rejuvenation does not affect minions. Furthermore, due to longer recharge of these spirits it is harder to stay in their range. Therefore, Life is generally superior.

I dont know why you are so hung up on saving your poor poor minions in every post you made. Minions are not suppose to live forever and if you are that worried that they would all die out on you, then bring Blood of the Master and Aura of the Lich.

I usually dont bring Blood of the Master and I have no problems dealing with mobs. If you cannot survive without your minions then how do you deal with your first mob and low corpse areas?

So, bringing Life just to ensure minion survival between mobs is far from necessary. Also most mobs are not that far away anyway.

Myotheraccount · May 22, 2010, 11:45 PM // 23:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

I dont know why you are so hung up on saving your poor poor minions in every post you made. Minions are not suppose to live forever and if you are that worried that they would all die out on you, then bring Blood of the Master and Aura of the Lich.

I usually dont bring Blood of the Master and I have no problems dealing with mobs. If you cannot survive without your minions then how do you deal with your first mob and low corpse areas?

So, bringing Life just to ensure minion survival between mobs is far from necessary. Also most mobs are not that far away anyway.

Because Minions provide a great deal of defense and shouldn't be neglected. Bombing is awesome but it doesn't mean you have to blow up your entire wall. Also, more Minions before battle = more bombs = more uber damage right when you need it. It's not a question of whether my setup can survive without minions or not, it just becomes stronger with minions. If I feel like the mob I'm fighting is weak, I simply disable BoTM (if i take it that is). The reason people stopped running BoTM was because both Sabway and Discordway had life, the latter also had enormous minions wall that meant enormous sacs with BoTM. Majority of people don't understand that though, they don't run it simply because someone else said so.

As for Life, you don't bring it just for minions. You bring it because all of the aforementioned advantages as a whole.

In low corpse areas I usually just drop MM altogether and take more damage.

Daesu · May 23, 2010, 12:48 AM // 00:48

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Originally Posted by Myotheraccount

Because Minions provide a great deal of defense and shouldn't be neglected. Bombing is awesome but it doesn't mean you have to blow up your entire wall. Also, more Minions before battle = more bombs = more uber damage right when you need it. It's not a question of whether my setup can survive without minions or not, it just becomes stronger with minions. If I feel like the mob I'm fighting is weak, I simply disable BoTM (if i take it that is). The reason people stopped running BoTM was because both Sabway and Discordway had life, the latter also had enormous minions wall that meant enormous sacs with BoTM. Majority of people don't understand that though, they don't run it simply because someone else said so.

What I am saying is, I don't bring BoTM and still have enough minions going from mob to mob, but I understand that certain areas need you to run further between mobs. In those areas, bringing BoTM should be enough.

Besides with less than 20s of running, your team can easily run outside of spirit range, making Life not that useful for keeping minions alive between mobs. Besides the heals from BoTM and your healers are more effective in keeping your minions alive than Life. Whatever heals it gives to minions between mobs is negligible because the heals can be inconsistent with the pace of your battles and can easily be substituted by more reliable heals like BoTM.

Myotheraccount · May 23, 2010, 10:17 AM // 10:17

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Originally Posted by Daesu

What I am saying is, I don't bring BoTM and still have enough minions going from mob to mob, but I understand that certain areas need you to run further between mobs. In those areas, bringing BoTM should be enough.

Besides with less than 20s of running, your team can easily run outside of spirit range, making Life not that useful for keeping minions alive between mobs. Besides the heals from BoTM and your healers are more effective in keeping your minions alive than Life. Whatever heals it gives to minions between mobs is negligible because the heals can be inconsistent with the pace of your battles and can easily be substituted by more reliable heals like BoTM.

Maybe. But usually not. Spirit range is quite large. Based on my observations, more Minions get from a mob to a mob with Life than without. At an rate, it's one more advantage Life has over the other two spirits. Comparing it to BoTM makes no sense.

Daesu · May 23, 2010, 04:32 PM // 16:32

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Originally Posted by Myotheraccount

Comparing it to BoTM makes no sense.

With BoTM, you should not have trouble bringing your minions from mob to mob. You dont need to bring Life for that.