Curse

Akimb0 · Jun 04, 2010, 02:32 PM // 14:32

Since shatter delusions is now AoE, I wanted to include it in my build. However I'm not sure how well they'd use it.

Does anyone else have any experience with this skill on heroes? Do they use it asap on a mesmer hex, do they use it when one is about to end? Do they not use it at all?

I am of course going to try it out myself, but wanted to see if anyone had any experience with it first.

Hoping they'll use it to strip mesmer hexes asap, so I can use it with mind wrack

Myotheraccount · Jun 04, 2010, 08:24 PM // 20:24

They use it. But they don't differentiate between hexes as far as I'm aware.

distilledwill · Jun 08, 2010, 10:52 AM // 10:52

^That, I guess you could just fill their bar with hexes with effects when they end - like Phantom Pain etc.

cellardweller · Jun 09, 2010, 02:19 AM // 02:19

SD works well with aoe hexes like clums too - you'll still get the effect of the hex on 5/6 of the group, but add an extra 75 aoe damage to the mix.

Akimb0 · Jun 09, 2010, 10:42 AM // 10:42

Just been testing with it on my bar. Norgu seems to like using it as often as possible, so I tagged on mind wrack, which has a nice short recharge, with Panic as his elite. Works pretty well. I'd like to try it with clumsiness as well, but he's pure domination magic with some inspiration for energy control/interrupts. I do however have Gwen set up as full Illusion, pretty good as a pair. Just a pain to lose the versatility of Discord heroes though, still, if I'm with another player and they bring discord, bringing mesmer heroes with Shatter delusions "spam" would probably work well I'd imagine.

mage767 · Jun 16, 2010, 04:35 AM // 04:35

Use shatter delusions with either mind-wrack or fragility (the latter is AOE).
Enjoy spammable AOE damage on your bar, or on hero bar. Watch hero energy management tho.

The Josip · Jun 16, 2010, 12:50 PM // 12:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by mage767

Use shatter delusions with either mind-wrack or fragility (the latter is AOE).
Enjoy spammable AOE damage on your bar, or on hero bar. Watch hero energy management tho.

Problem is that neither Mind Wrack not Fragility won't do much on their own. So you're using 2 skills on your skillbar to cause possible adjacent AoE of up to 79 or so. And you still need more damage skills.
Which brings us to one of the things I wrote about in the other thread: "too much of the same".

If you use Shatter on a hero, it means you're running mesmer hero, which means you're not running some other hero. What 3 heroes do you use altogether in this case?

If you use Shatter on yourself, it means you're using a fun build more than anything. Compare Fragility+Shatter with Me/D scythe build. You'll be surprised to see that a mesmer with hero casting only SoH and Splinter on him, will inflict more damage than 90% of mesmer builds, for sure, and the other 10% is debatable. I also use PI as elite, so utility can be useful as well. /D for more damage, or /W for SY. Either way, 10x more useful than 95% mesmer builds out there, sadly.

maxxfury · Jun 16, 2010, 01:17 PM // 13:17

They are as usual, indiscriminate. They wont give a crap what hex they shatter.

mage767 · Jun 16, 2010, 01:39 PM // 13:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Josip

Problem is that neither Mind Wrack not Fragility won't do much on their own. So you're using 2 skills on your skillbar to cause possible adjacent AoE of up to 79 or so. And you still need more damage skills.
Which brings us to one of the things I wrote about in the other thread: "too much of the same".

If you use Shatter on a hero, it means you're running mesmer hero, which means you're not running some other hero. What 3 heroes do you use altogether in this case?

If you use Shatter on yourself, it means you're using a fun build more than anything. Compare Fragility+Shatter with Me/D scythe build. You'll be surprised to see that a mesmer with hero casting only SoH and Splinter on him, will inflict more damage than 90% of mesmer builds, for sure, and the other 10% is debatable. I also use PI as elite, so utility can be useful as well. /D for more damage, or /W for SY. Either way, 10x more useful than 95% mesmer builds out there, sadly.

I am currently working on a mesmerway team build, which is me (mesmer), 2 hero mesmers and 1 MM nec hero. The trouble I have with the mesmers is not the damage, but rather the inability to maintain energy properly. In longer fights, the two mesmers always run out of energy. I have tried all sorts of energy management skill combinations - AI mesmers just suck at energy management. I will try similar builds on necro/mes heroes and see how those perform.

And yes, hex+shatter is not the only thing on their bars. There is a lot of nifty AOE damage as well. I wouldn't want to run IW on my mes since pretty much as other type of melee exceeds in performance. Rather, I want to stay back and make life the living hell out of enermies. For this to happen and to benefit from the current mesmer AOE buffs, enemies must be balled more or less, which requires a good tank hero/hench/minion wall/friend tank in front.

maxxfury · Jun 16, 2010, 02:20 PM // 14:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by mage767

In longer fights, the two mesmers always run out of energy. I have tried all sorts of energy management skill combinations - AI mesmers just suck at energy management. I will try similar builds on necro/mes heroes and see how those perform.

Blood rit on the MB?
its a lazy bandaid fix but it works pretty well...and always has.

The Josip · Jun 16, 2010, 03:32 PM // 15:32

I found that Drain Enchantment is one of the best e-gain skills you can put on a mesmer.

Also, I solved energy problem on one of the mesmer in an unorthodox way. Drain Delusions. Fast-recharging insane energy gain. Now, heroes don't know what to drain. I solved that problem with .. hex spam. One hero had Shared Burden, the other Panic. Both AoE hexes which can be cast and maintained pretty much all the time. These hexes somewhat contradict each other, but let's not get into that again. Hero had enough targets to use DD, and to spam his skills.

I didn't use Necro henchman as I don't like them at all. Don't see a point in taking very weak henchman just so that weak mesmer hero can actually cast his skills properly.

maxxfury · Jun 16, 2010, 04:31 PM // 16:31

mage767 already has a minion bomber to slap BR on so wouldn't need to hire a hench necro. Wont be too much of an issue to slot it with a few point diverted.
I generally would be able to find a better hench to run than a nec too

The Josip · Jun 16, 2010, 09:01 PM // 21:01

2 Mesmers + MB who has no heal/prot because he speces in blood?
So, 2 henchmen monks?

I'd be a bit sceptical about it.. then again maybe he's a healer himself.

But if you look where this is headed, it all consists of "how to patch the mesmer" instead of "how to buff it /make it synergize more with the rest of the team".
And that's what I don't like. My mesmer hero had full energy with Drain Delusions. Problem was, there wasn't much he was doing with it, or could've done with it. The main problem I had with mesmer heroes wasn't energy.

Haggis of Doom · Jun 16, 2010, 10:57 PM // 22:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Josip

My mesmer hero had full energy with Drain Delusions. Problem was, there wasn't much he was doing with it, or could've done with it. The main problem I had with mesmer heroes wasn't energy.

I hardly am able to make good Mesmer hero bars, but I do think you've pinned the problem about yours:

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Josip

I solved that problem with .. hex spam. One hero had Shared Burden, the other Panic. Both AoE hexes which can be cast and maintained pretty much all the time. These hexes somewhat contradict each other, but let's not get into that again. Hero had enough targets to use DD, and to spam his skills.

Maybe DD was part of the problem, and not of the solution?

As a human Mesmer you could choose what you drain, such as Arcane Conundrum on a melee mob tag-along. But on heroes... Much of a Mesmer's strength is in hexes, and not all of the better ones would benefit from DD, to say the least.

My Mesmer heroes are staying with good old Power Drain + Drain Enchantment until I find something better

As for Mesmers not generating much DPS... Why'd you play a Mesmer/take a Mesmer hero if raw DPS is what you're after?

maxxfury · Jun 16, 2010, 11:28 PM // 23:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Josip

2 Mesmers + MB who has no heal/prot because he speces in blood?
So, 2 henchmen monks?

I'd be a bit sceptical about it.. then again maybe he's a healer himself.

http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Pv...Submit+ Query

is far from a bad template

easy enough to swap putrid bile for sols also if you think it runs a little low on bluebar

or jagged for aotl ofc

But indeed, the whole "mes hero team" seems to need a few too many bandaids for my liking

..

The Josip · Jun 16, 2010, 11:50 PM // 23:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haggis of Doom

Maybe DD was part of the problem, and not of the solution?

It was not a part of the problem because it did not create a problem. It was part of the solution because it solved the issue (energy problem). Besides, I didn't have DD on their skillbar all the time. I was testing other combinations too.

Quote:

Much of a Mesmer's strength is in hexes, and not all of the better ones would benefit from DD, to say the least.

You don't cast DD to benefit any hex in PvE, any at all. There are no decent hexes that you want to remove yourself. You cast DD so you can cast many other spells after it. Let's put it this way: you cast Shared Burden (5 energy) on 4 enemies, and then use 1 DD to remove the hex from one of these four. Then you have 11 energy which you can use to cast more Shared Burdens and other spells. In theory. In practice things get more complicated so one needs to pay attention to some other details.

Quote:

As for Mesmers not generating much DPS... Why'd you play a Mesmer/take a Mesmer hero if raw DPS is what you're after?

Because of style.

I don't use mesmer heroes because they are useless. But as for me - because I was mostly PvPer before, and Mesmer was very strong and very fun. No other class had so many unique possible combinations as mesmer did. The class was also subtle which suited me. Also, kinda aikido style.
In PvE, it was another story, but after playing other classes I'd come back to mesmer each time. Why? Because it was refreshing. Because it was challenging. Because it wasn't the trend. Because I have to think while playing instead of just 1-2-3-4-5.