Curse

Dzjudz · Jul 19, 2010, 01:38 PM // 13:38

On my sin, I usually use a smiting monk like syphonus posted, an ER prot hero like in the pvx link above (though with Mend Ailment instead of Shield Guardian) and a N/Mo Jagged Bomber like syphonus posted with Dwayna's Sorrow and Cure Hex (both healing prayers) instead of the prot skills (since the ER prot is sufficient). I don't find hero spirit spammers very efficient. Also, on the sin build I'd rather use Fox's Promise (in areas with block stances etc.) or Flashing Blades, but that's personal preference (WotA doesn't add to attack speed and the added critical hit chance isn't need imo).

Voodoo Rage · Jul 19, 2010, 02:48 PM // 14:48

This thread inspired me to roll a sin this weekend. Anyone use the elite [Wastrel's Collapse]?

"Shadow Step to target foe. If that foe is not using a skill, that foe is knocked down. All your non-dagger attack skills are disabled for 10 seconds."

It seemed like my biggest beef with melee in general is that I would get hit with some sort of movement hex or cripple before I could even get to the target. I also noticed that many times I would use Death's Charge but my target would ignore me and I'd still have to chase them down. With the elite, you can charge right in and knock them down almost every time.

I Hate Chips · Jul 19, 2010, 04:39 PM // 16:39

But i really like splinter weapon from my Rit hero ;( will try if jagged bomber is better....

and at wastrel collapse.. not big fan of it, i like way of the assasin, since it gives u easy energy management because of the criticals u hit. also will try out wastrel collapse. want to make it as good as possible, will try out tonight and will post my results here so u can adjust any problems (:

syphonus · Jul 19, 2010, 06:36 PM // 18:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzjudz

Also, on the sin build I'd rather use Fox's Promise (in areas with block stances etc.) or Flashing Blades, but that's personal preference (WotA doesn't add to attack speed and the added critical hit chance isn't need imo).

You'd be surprised. WotA gives you enough energy to maintain Scan on every enemy, in addition to the 10 or so extra DPS you gain. Flashing Blades doesn't give you that. MS doesn't, either.

With the setup I gave, it's common to see Death Blossoms hitting for over 300 damage, and every attack skill hitting in the hundreds- AoE damage not included.

Of everything, the Rt is without a doubt the most essential character in your party. Spirit spamming is incredibly powerful in PvE; even more so if you flag and lay spirits down before aggro.

Xandra isn't a true spirit spammer, however. Her purpose is to support the frontline with Splinter Weapon and Ancestor's Rage, while keeping blind off him with MBAS, and maintaining energy with Spirit Siphon. The damage her spirits do is considerable and synergizes well with the rest of her build, and provides a solid body-blocking wall as well. A primary Rt's Splinter Weapon is leaps and bounds better than a secondary's.

Of everything you could stand to lose, I'd say the ER is first in line. A microable PS on you is really all you need; You generally don't need prots if the mob is already dead.

I Hate Chips · Jul 19, 2010, 07:22 PM // 19:22

so ur saying a jagged bomber isnt better then Xandra?

syphonus · Jul 19, 2010, 07:53 PM // 19:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Hate Chips

so ur saying a jagged bomber isnt better then Xandra?

Certainly not. MM's are conditional, you can lay spirits down anywhere. And a MM means no Splinter Weapon, and that's never a good thing.

You don't have to take my word for it, though. Try it yourself.

I Hate Chips · Jul 20, 2010, 08:01 PM // 20:01

Would this for my RT be good? For even more AoE damage...
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Voodoo Rage · Jul 20, 2010, 08:22 PM // 20:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Hate Chips

Would this for my RT be good? For even more AoE damage...
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Too much attribute splits for my tastes.

syphonus · Jul 20, 2010, 10:01 PM // 22:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voodoo Rage

Too much attribute splits for my tastes.

Agreed; if you want Curses you'd be better off dropping Restoration entirely.
I hesitate to say that Barbs would be overkill for single-target damage, but the casting time and no 40/40 means that you might miss a crucial Splinter Weapon when you need it. If you had energy problems with Fall Back I doubt this will help things, however, you might try this:

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[Signet of Spirits][Splinter Weapon][Bloodsong][Ancestors' Rage][Spirit Siphon][Mark of Pain][Defile Defenses][Enfeebling Blood]

I would take a Curses 40/40 with that anyway, to cut down the recharge of MoP a bit.

I Hate Chips · Jul 21, 2010, 09:49 AM // 09:49

okay will try that (:
Would it be better, if I took 2 healer henchies, put away the ER prot and replace it with a jagged bomber?

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OwUTMQHD1xnZ9p+ukeQGo6PPAA
OANDUshvSLVVBoBbhvE1DBEVVA

How about this?
Replaced the ER, with jagged bomber....

Voodoo Rage · Jul 21, 2010, 02:35 PM // 14:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by syphonus

Not unless you count micro'ing PS. You should be doing that anyway.

I've never been a fan of using an Orders hero to buff just one team member. Bringing a Smiting hero means you can drop SoH and the rest off Xandra and stick a few resto skills on there; while maintaining a 16 spec SoH from the monk, as well as a ludicrously strong Smite Hex and RoJ. Getting a 15 or so splinter weapon is pretty awesome as well.

This is what I'm using currently; apart from Duncan I've H/H'd every HM dungeon with this, easily.

I'm currently running this hero setup and I really like it. Dunkoro seems to manage his energy just fine and the added points in smiting is fairly significant for damage.

syphonus · Jul 22, 2010, 04:27 PM // 16:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Hate Chips

okay will try that (:
Would it be better, if I took 2 healer henchies, put away the ER prot and replace it with a jagged bomber?

OASjcwiM5QXTYMlTeTMTWCMi2B
OwUTMQHD1xnZ9p+ukeQGo6PPAA
OANDUshvSLVVBoBbhvE1DBEVVA

How about this?
Replaced the ER, with jagged bomber....

Any opportunity to take less healing is a good thing; the trick is to find how much you actually need. I generally don't need any more backline than the two hench healers. However, you'll have to bring better means of condition removal if you drop MBAS for Curses. Signet of Removal on the MM might do the trick.

EDIT: as a sidenote, heroes have always managed MoP very badly in my experience. I'm not entirely sure it's worth bringing, unless you disable the skill and micro it.

I Hate Chips · Jul 22, 2010, 06:49 PM // 18:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by syphonus

EDIT: as a sidenote, heroes have always managed MoP very badly in my experience. I'm not entirely sure it's worth bringing, unless you disable the skill and micro it.

I already tried MoP out.. Doesn't work that good. It doesn't make any difference, Its better to keep it on resto for extra heal support. In HM I seem to lack some Hex removals, Windrider groups in HM are not that easy to deal with I've noticed..

syphonus · Jul 22, 2010, 08:17 PM // 20:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Hate Chips

I already tried MoP out.. Doesn't work that good. It doesn't make any difference, Its better to keep it on resto for extra heal support. In HM I seem to lack some Hex removals, Windrider groups in HM are not that easy to deal with I've noticed..

Really? I'm surprised.. unless you're aggroing more than 2 mobs, you can sort of run over them, like everything else. At least, I do whenever I'm running to Slaver's.

Slasher of Darkness · Jul 23, 2010, 10:21 AM // 10:21

Just a question about syphonus's builds. Do you bring both monk henchies or not? Cause I'm gonna try your stuff out later. I'm presonally running an AotL MB atm with xandra @ 16 spec channeling and 12 in smiting for SoH, and then a WoH or N/Rt healer, But I might try out yours, so do you bring 1 or 2 monk henches?

syphonus · Jul 23, 2010, 04:06 PM // 16:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slasher of Darkness

Just a question about syphonus's builds. Do you bring both monk henchies or not? Cause I'm gonna try your stuff out later. I'm presonally running an AotL MB atm with xandra @ 16 spec channeling and 12 in smiting for SoH, and then a WoH or N/Rt healer, But I might try out yours, so do you bring 1 or 2 monk henches?

2, in most areas. Haven't had any trouble in 6-man areas except for BLA HM, because Alesia sucks balls. I haven't tried 4-man areas, but they're generally easy enough that you can swap in an ER if you're having trouble and you'll do fine.

The elite on the MM doesn't really matter. As a rule of thumb, I go AotL when there's lots of corpses, JB when there's not as much, and Empathic Removal/Signet of Removal when I'm having trouble with hexes.

EDIT: Oops. I don't take an MM when there's few or no corpses, fixed.

Slasher of Darkness · Jul 24, 2010, 08:15 AM // 08:15

Hmm, alright, I'm just gonna give it a whirl tonight. Thanks.

Life Bringing · Jul 24, 2010, 09:52 AM // 09:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by syphonus

2, in most areas. Haven't had any trouble in 6-man areas except for BLA HM, because Alesia sucks balls. I haven't tried 4-man areas, but they're generally easy enough that you can swap in an ER if you're having trouble and you'll do fine.

The elite on the MM doesn't really matter. As a rule of thumb, I go AotL when there's lots of corpses, JB when there's not as much, and Empathic Removal/Signet of Removal when I'm having trouble with hexes.

EDIT: Oops. I don't take an MM when there's few or no corpses, fixed.

Were you able to do BLA HM?

I Hate Chips · Jul 24, 2010, 12:11 PM // 12:11

Am I doing something wrong?
I use 3 heroes:
Rit SoS
Ele prot
Mo RoJ
+ earth ele
+2 monks
+ melee

I can survive with those 3 healers, but I think im doing something wrong because 3 healers is a bit much.... If I swap my ER prot for a MM its harder for me to survive..
any suggestions what I should change?!

syphonus · Jul 24, 2010, 03:28 PM // 15:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Life Bringing

Were you able to do BLA HM?

Nah. Everything up to the Perfected Armor's group is a breeze, but there's just so many groups in succession there that it'd be difficult to do with a decent full party, let alone a 6-man party with the worst henchies in the entire game. With a full conset and a summoning stone I could probably pull it off, but I didn't feel like spending the time/money.

NM isn't difficult, though.

Quote:

Am I doing something wrong?
I use 3 heroes:
Rit SoS
Ele prot
Mo RoJ
+ earth ele
+2 monks
+ melee

I can survive with those 3 healers, but I think im doing something wrong because 3 healers is a bit much.... If I swap my ER prot for a MM its harder for me to survive..
any suggestions what I should change?!

What areas are you trying to do? A big part of effectively using the build depends on flagging heroes behind you and taking aggro. In EotN I usually end up taking Eve for Mark of Fury and to support the monks with Blood Ritual.