Curse

Jeydra · Jul 11, 2010, 04:15 AM // 04:15

So about this bar:

Quote:

FC - 11+1
Dom. - 12+1+1
Insp. - 6+7
PI, CoF, Power Spike, Empathy, Drain Enchantment, Mistrust, GoLE, Rez. Signet

Tried it in Duncan HM, using the standard MM (AotL, Death Nova, prots) and the standard SoS Rit with Frozen Soil. It took apart the first mob, although I also took a death in the process. That was pretty impressive. The second mob however took the team apart. The healers hung far back, Frozen Soil got killed a couple of times and I couldn't wipe the mob fast enough when FS was up. The fight took quite a while before they pressured me out. The way the fight went I could've beaten the mob eventually, but it would soon come to a massive grindfest because I'd have ~30% DP on everyone. With the second Rit I would have enough damage to kill the mob (done it many times).

Also the AI very much refuses to use PI. In fact when it could've used PI and scored some nice KDs, it insisted on using Cry of Frustration ... most of the time if you look at the Mesmer, he has every skill recharging except PI.

If the Mesmer does not replace the Communing offensive Rit well, then I'm inclined to conclude it is inferior. Since the build has no prots, it cannot replace the MM, leaving it with no niche. Another danger is that it doesn't have a hard res. 2-man / 6 heroes though, maybe.

kanuks · Jul 11, 2010, 09:15 PM // 21:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myotheraccount

Emo, your point? Must be that Mesmers are bad. No, they aren't.

Bars didn't drop below 90% because Dryders and Shattered Elementals couldn't get any of their skills through because of constant rupts from the Mesmers. Without Mesmers my Physical build wouldn't do much because I would be slowed and nuked with AoE 24/7.

Oh and Jeydra learn to effin read before you smash your dick against the keyboard.

Well to be honest if you really wanted to test mesmer builds and see how much damage they can mitigate then you could at least have removed one of the monks or the er ele. And you could try it out in a more difficult dungeon... You could do that dungeon with henchies only and still not have a challenge...

On a side note me and 2 buddys tried panic mesmer in urgoz and it works like a charm (HM). We also tried The deep for the first time yesterday (nm) and we finished it without much problems as well. Panic mesmers are definitely good.

WarcryOfTruth · Jul 12, 2010, 06:42 PM // 18:42

I haven't read all of the posts in this thread, so if it has been mentioned then sorry but based on what I've seen, Overload gives way more DPS to a group of foes than Discord does... 95 damage AoE every four seconds, probably a safe bet to Arcane Echo it to pump out even more DPS

The Josip · Jul 12, 2010, 08:33 PM // 20:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarcryOfTruth

I haven't read all of the posts in this thread, so if it has been mentioned then sorry but based on what I've seen, Overload gives way more DPS to a group of foes than Discord does... 95 damage AoE every four seconds, probably a safe bet to Arcane Echo it to pump out even more DPS

Not even on the paper. You might want to re-read the skill description. Also, Overload does not give x damage every four seconds. That's theorycraft. And heroes won't Arcane Echo it properly.

WarcryOfTruth · Jul 13, 2010, 08:34 PM // 20:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Josip

Not even on the paper. You might want to re-read the skill description. Also, Overload does not give x damage every four seconds. That's theorycraft. And heroes won't Arcane Echo it properly.

Most people micromanage their heroes to do things like Arcane Echo and reapply enchantments before they end

. And Overload does ~40 damage and +~50 more damage to target and adjacent foes if target is using a skill, it also will make it recharge in four seconds, so yes approximately 90 damage AoE every four seconds

. And heroes generally use skills that require conditions effectively

The Josip · Jul 14, 2010, 12:03 AM // 00:03

I thought that only 50dmg is AoE and I vaguely remember it being so, but too lazy to check now.

Btw heroes won't use it once every 4 seconds instantly, because 1) enemy needs to be casting a spell 2) doesn't mean hero will use it on recharge, and usually they dont 3) mesmer heroes are not quite good at spamming skills because of energy issue 4) this "AoE" is still only adjacent and 5) mesmer hero who is using overload isn't using interrupt.

I mean heck, why am I wasting my time. Sure go ahead, use this. Mesmerway is great; it beats ritualists, necromancers, EMo's - pretty much everyone.

HigherMinion · Jul 14, 2010, 01:52 AM // 01:52

Does mesmer AI use Drain Delusions well?

maxxfury · Jul 14, 2010, 02:51 AM // 02:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

Does mesmer AI use Drain Delusions well?

Similar to the way they use interrupts, frequently and indiscriminately...IF you want stuff to stick, bring more hex's for hero's to drain

"ohhh! mes hex on them! *boom* drained!"

"norgu! wtf!"

"what? you wanted that one to stick? ......"

"well f*****g duh?!"

"ohhh! another mes hex on them! *boom* drained!"

"seriously...wtf norgu?"

"what i did it again? ....you should have known better than that...."

".....*%$($£&^"

"ohhh! yet another mes hex on them! *boom* drained!"

*takes away norgu's drain delusions..

HigherMinion · Jul 14, 2010, 09:50 AM // 09:50

Haha. I think I'd still take it, but make sure to bring plenty of covers. It's pretty much the best cover, on a human atleast.

byteme! · Jul 14, 2010, 08:32 PM // 20:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Josip

Not even on the paper. You might want to re-read the skill description. Also, Overload does not give x damage every four seconds. That's theorycraft.

I think it can. Well maybe not 100% of the time but it can. You sure you know what is and isn't theorycraft?

maxxfury · Jul 15, 2010, 12:18 AM // 00:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by byteme!

I think it can. Well maybe not 100% of the time but it can.

With 100% optimal usage it could, but it just doesnt work that way....

Sadly, no way in play does a hero cast it on recharge, and also always be vs a foe using a skill, who is balled up so his 'friends' take the aoe..

The Josip · Jul 15, 2010, 09:27 AM // 09:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxxfury

With 100% optimal usage it could, but it just doesnt work that way....

Sadly, no way in play does a hero cast it on recharge, and also always be vs a foe using a skill, who is balled up so his 'friends' take the aoe..

I think mesmer is the only class which, upon entering any PvE area, always encounters ideal conditions for the skills. The foes align themselves properly, when WW is on them they refuse to cast skills, etc etc.

Kyp Jade · Jul 15, 2010, 10:49 AM // 10:49

I'll not speak about player mesmers because pve skills let you play a whole different slew of builds, but things you need to consider. One thing I will mention is when you join or team or play with someone else besides your heros and hench, the mesmer class is the best class to fit support skills on the bar. For instance if you have any physicals in your team bring great dwarf weapon, or if you have another caster bring ebon wisdom ward, etc.

Heroes
Mesmers have some very powerful skills, but unlike other classes, you cant fill your entire bar with stuff to compliment that skill, because if you could to that, mesmers would change from a strong choice to something on the level of discord. Not a bring both mesmer heroes, bc thats stupid, it would be like HA overpowered where you simply have to bring it. Lately I've been bringing a panic hero when I've felt like playing ineptitude and not panic myself. In PvE vanqs a panic hero can greatly speed up the killing of mobs, they cant attack, they more easily get stuck in balls trying to cast. Of course you have to consider that panic doesnt do well in <8 man areas too, anyway

Also, stop thinking of the mesmer as a nuker class, to often I meet people not taking advantage of the class, and playing things like Esurge and straight up damage skills. Sure you can get some ok damage from that since its all armor ignoring, but consider. (and in any case enchanters conundrum builds can push bigger damage)

For skills like

Panic
Fevered Dreams
Visions of Regret
Ineptitude
etc

Skills that are the essence of mesmer playstyle, you only really need a handful of skills to compliment them, the rest needs to be for support, for instance this hero bar wrecks hard mode.

Panic Smite (w/physicals in team)
OQNEAowT55QDMd4VXC136PPICA
Panic Smite (w/out physical in team)
OQNEAowT55QDMdTPXC136PEQjA

For panic in particular, you need few complimentary skills, mistrust being the only one that comes to mind to increase the bars power. The rest of the bar you change to support, in this case, smiting. Smiting isnt a #1 choice of things to bring in pve due to other things being more powerful, but since you already have norgu's primary roll of shutdown smiting is an excellent choice of support. Choice of smite skills vary by area, but the important thing is your team is being kept more clean, and you have more incendental aoe damage flying around.

The Josip · Jul 16, 2010, 10:11 AM // 10:11

I'm not going to bother with the parts that were said and repeated 10x already in the thread, and counterargumented 20x.. but:

Quote:

the mesmer class is the best class to fit support skills on the bar. For instance if you have any physicals in your team bring great dwarf weapon

Let's stop there for a moment because I feel it sums up the entire post.

Why is a mesmer the best class for GDW? Wouldn't that be in a human team you just mentioned that EMo protter, or perhaps necromancer? Or at the end of a day ritulist with Siphon spirit?
What makes mesmer better than these, what advantage he has in spamming GDW, and where do you find energy to spam GDW as a mesmer?

The Drunkard · Jul 16, 2010, 10:36 AM // 10:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Josip

Why is a mesmer the best class for GDW? Wouldn't that be in a human team you just mentioned that EMo protter, or perhaps necromancer? Or at the end of a day ritulist with Siphon spirit?

Mesmers have a lot of slack on their bars because their elites are what set them apart from the other profs. For example, you don't need to devote your entire skillbar to try and complement panic when you can bring other skills to help team members. Panic will provide huge shutdown on a mob, while skills like cry or ww will help with damage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Josip

and where do you find energy to spam GDW as a mesmer?

It's really not hard to keep it up on a teammate or two as long as you aren't cramming multiple 10-15e spells on your bar with no e-management.

OT.

Mesmerway isn't feasable because shutdown elites clash with each other, and damage elites pale compared to other classes (with the exception of ineptitude). Discordway, arkfenway, sabway, rayway, and other popular hero teams require little to no management and synergize with almost any team.

The Josip · Jul 16, 2010, 02:03 PM // 14:03

Yes, but what makes GDW better on a mesmer?

Quote:

Panic will provide huge shutdown on a mob, while skills like cry or ww will help with damage.

WW is only good with Panic when theorycrafting.

I have one question though. Say, there's a tight mob in some general PvE area that needs handling.

Option A: Take a mesmer build with Panic to handle a mob, after which monsters manage to pull out some spells and some get interrupted, but no one dies of it. The mob is partially shutdown for 10+ seconds.

Option B: Take melee class with splinter/gdw on (instead of that panic mesmer) and attack-spam mob few times within 2 seconds, after which the entire mob dies. Shutdown is 100%, and mob is dead within few seconds.

Which form of shutdown is more effective?

maxxfury · Jul 16, 2010, 02:23 PM // 14:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Josip

I think mesmer is the only class which, upon entering any PvE area, always encounters ideal conditions for the skills. The foes align themselves properly, when WW is on them they refuse to cast skills, etc etc.

You would think sometime wouldn't you

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Josip

Yes, but what makes GDW better on a mesmer?

Which form of shutdown is more effective?

I think they mean that GDW can fit easily on a mes bar due to a lack of skills you/they would want to take, and therefor more free slots for it

Tho a rit (with spawning) or infuzers are a much better platform for it. rits can keep it on more people alone with the longer duration, and infuzers just lol at the cost and abuse the crap out of it

And death then kd's (especially stonefist or earthbind enhanced)
Tho ofc, blind and block webs are very powerful vs phys

but thats OT for this..

The Josip · Jul 16, 2010, 02:47 PM // 14:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxxfury

I think they mean that GDW can fit easily on a mes bar due to a lack of skills you/they would want to take, and therefor more free slots for it

Tho a rit (with spawning) or infuzers are a much better platform for it.

Ah! I see. Mesmer is perfect for GDW because mesmer skills are "meh" so there's plenty of place for GDW, while other classes have plenty of good skills belonging to that class.

I agree!

Haggis of Doom · Jul 16, 2010, 04:01 PM // 16:01

A lot of PuG leaders agree too.

"Lol Mesmer? Wtf is it Mesmers do anyways? *kick*"

Kyp Jade · Jul 16, 2010, 07:58 PM // 19:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Josip

Ah! I see. Mesmer is perfect for GDW because mesmer skills are "meh" so there's plenty of place for GDW, while other classes have plenty of good skills belonging to that class.

I agree!

No, this is yet another case where you dont read the posts you respond to, pick one thing out of context, and use that out of context point to make your point. That is very poor debate skills.

Mesmer skills, elites in particular are very VERY strong, not meh, and because of that you hardly need any other skills to make your skillbar better at what you need it to do, thus you have lots of room for support skills.

Its all about bar compression, other midline professions dont have as much of it as mesmers do.