Curse

AtomicMew · May 24, 2010, 04:36 PM // 16:36

Has anyone come up with a H/H build focusing on mesmer buffs? Something like domination mesmer, illusion mesmer and a standard minion bomber.

Theorycraft:

Domination: Energy Surge {E}, Mind Wrack, Chaos Storm, Cry of Frustration, Power Drain, Empathy, Unnatural Signet, SoH
Illusion: Shared Burden {E}, Signet of Clumsiness, Wandering Eye, Clumsiness, Power Drain, Splinter Weapon, Calculated Risk, FoMF
Standard MB

Lots of AoE, lots of shutdown. Thoughts?

Myotheraccount · May 24, 2010, 04:41 PM // 16:41

Dual Ineptitude, Clumsy, Wandering etc. spam for epic AI abusage. Heroes don't override hexes and AI constantly wands so it may work.

Axel Zinfandel · May 24, 2010, 05:14 PM // 17:14

It's hard to deny the potential shutdown of skills like Panic or Psychic Instability. For the illusion hero, I definitely suggest going 10-11-10 split with 11 on FC and perhaps a superior in FC, while putting in Psychic Instability for Shared Burden. A 4 second AoE KD on a 7/6 second recharge is generally hard to pass up.

On enemies that can't be knocked down, Panic is a good alternative, especially coupled with Frustration.

Fusylum · May 24, 2010, 05:16 PM // 17:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axel Zinfandel

It's hard to deny the potential shutdown of skills like Panic or Psychic Instability. For the illusion hero, I definitely suggest going 10-11-10 split with 11 on FC and perhaps a superior in FC, while putting in Psychic Instability for Shared Burden. A 4 second AoE KD on a 7/6 second recharge is generally hard to pass up.
On enemies that can't be knocked down, Panic is a good alternative, especially coupled with Frustration.

I agree 110%
Just sayin

Xsiriss · May 24, 2010, 05:24 PM // 17:24

I personally prefer using Panic and Ineptitude, panic generally means you rape them so baed you don't need to KD any single caster. But obviously depends on cirumstance, PI is probably better forl onger fights.

Covah · May 24, 2010, 05:42 PM // 17:42

Psychic Instability has to interupt to KD

just sayin

Eragon Zarroc · May 24, 2010, 07:02 PM // 19:02

meh, but heros can rupt easily. i like the idea of panic. nearby range aoe degen with aoe 'rupts everytime they activate skills

Daesu · May 24, 2010, 07:31 PM // 19:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axel Zinfandel

It's hard to deny the potential shutdown of skills like Panic or Psychic Instability. For the illusion hero, I definitely suggest going 10-11-10 split with 11 on FC and perhaps a superior in FC, while putting in Psychic Instability for Shared Burden. A 4 second AoE KD on a 7/6 second recharge is generally hard to pass up.

I agree that PI is better. But I prefer to mix PI with Stolen Speed or maybe Shared Burden on the other mesmer hero rather than Panic because they synergize better.

Myotheraccount · May 24, 2010, 07:48 PM // 19:48

PI is overrated. Rupting and KDing is fun and all but dealing massive damages is still better. I'd rather keep SB for epic defense and synergies with rupts.

AtomicMew · May 24, 2010, 07:57 PM // 19:57

The problem I see with PI is the high FC requirement. There's just no way to get that realistically without sacrificing something... SoH or Splinter Weapon. There are tons of just as good elites in domination and illusion, so I really don't see PI as a priority.

Anyway, I'm just trying to get some ideas. Post your builds

Daesu · May 25, 2010, 01:56 AM // 01:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by trcvrs

The problem I see with PI is the high FC requirement. There's just no way to get that realistically without sacrificing something... SoH or Splinter Weapon. There are tons of just as good elites in domination and illusion, so I really don't see PI as a priority.

Anyway, I'm just trying to get some ideas. Post your builds

Investing in FC is a lot more useful now than before. SoH is useless for a caster and Splinter Weapon can be carried by another hero.

There are good reasons why the new PI is so popular especially for heroes because heroes are built for interrupts. Panic is better for a human mesmer though.

Jeydra · May 25, 2010, 01:57 AM // 01:57

I can't see much potential in the Mesmer changes. There're only a few skills of note:

1. Psychic Instability. I honestly don't see the big hype behind this skill. So it interrupts and AoE KDs ... so what? It doesn't deal damage. You only have 3 hero slots and you need them for damage. With Rits dealing so much more damage I see no reason to use a Mesmer hero.
2. Psychic Instability + something else from a secondary profession. Major problem here is that you need to sink points into Fast Casting, which means you can't sink points into Inspiration Magic, which means you'll have energy problems. Not to mention all that high spec into Fast Casting doesn't help the secondary profession's recharge times.
3. Keystone Signet. This one's a bit interesting. You can use all your signets for some AoE armour-ignoring damage, AoE interrupts and high armour via Artificier's Insignias. Nonetheless the effects of the signets are nothing significant. Factoring in aftercast the build might deal about 70-80 DPS at best, which is decent but not impressive.
4. Everything else - control, but no damage. Who cares?

I can't see much else to Mesmer heroes. They simply don't deal damage. As far as my standard setup is concerned, I can't drop the minion bomber (essential prots, not to mention meat shield) or the two Rits (heavy damage, some defense). There's simply no room for a Mesmer, and they continue to be subpar. That's my impression.

Daesu · May 25, 2010, 02:06 AM // 02:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

I can't see much else to Mesmer heroes. They simply don't deal damage. As far as my standard setup is concerned, I can't drop the minion bomber (essential prots, not to mention meat shield) or the two Rits (heavy damage, some defense). There's simply no room for a Mesmer, and they continue to be subpar. That's my impression.

Agree, if you are not using mesmer heroes for AoE interrupts and KD, then what are you using them for?

If you want a more damaging build, why not just use rit heroes?

Myotheraccount · May 25, 2010, 02:45 AM // 02:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by trcvrs

The problem I see with PI is the high FC requirement. There's just no way to get that realistically without sacrificing something... SoH or Splinter Weapon. There are tons of just as good elites in domination and illusion, so I really don't see PI as a priority.

Anyway, I'm just trying to get some ideas. Post your builds

As far as synergies go your setup is probably the best you can get out of dual Mes hero setups as of now. You enjoy defensive/offensive capabilities of Illusion and offensive capabilities of Domination without them gimping each other. I lol'd at people who suggested PI. If you knock down foes most of the time your Illusion spells become redundant because they require foes to attack.
Speaking of which I been pondering the synergies between PI + Wastrel, Frustration + Panic + Wastrel and SB + Wastrel but cba making full bars with them atm.

I agree with the points Jeydra made though I'm still not sure what to think of Mesmers. As I said in this thread too, PI is overrated. Keystone is brave, reminds me of DarkSpirit's Artificer that I used to run allot. Though one thing certain; I'm not going to put them above my Spiritway/Discord/Physical setups for now.

Daesu · May 25, 2010, 02:55 AM // 02:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myotheraccount

If you knock down foes most of the time your Illusion spells become redundant because they require foes to attack.

The other illusion spells make it easier for you to PI, for example Frustration and Arcane Conundrum. Add Signet of Clumsiness and Wandering Eye into the mix and you have decent damage.

Joshie0808 · May 25, 2010, 06:51 AM // 06:51

I really like the new updates.. especially ineptitude, shared burden and panic. Still, I find it hard to give up Necro primary's cause of the benefits of soul reaping.

The problem I run into is that I want to use 2 mes elites.. say, panic and SB (so one domination and one illusion).

But using N/Me's, the first I run a 10-11-10 split with SR, (mes attribute), curses
the second I run a split with SR, (mes attribute #2) and I have no idea what 3rd attribute to put.

Using only 2 attribute lines, I cant find enough skills worth bringing (I generally only want the elite + maybe 2 or 3 other mes skills). But other than curses im stumped on a 3rd attribute line. (basically I lack the support from a rt 2ndary)

So my question is for those who are running Mesmer primary heroes, do you run into energy problems? If i do a Me/Rt with a 3 attribute split (FC, dom or illus, and resto) will they run out of energy fast? Do i need blood rit or bip or TPIY?

Has anyone tried out dual/triple mes heros? Any success? How do these match up against other hero builds?

Resha · May 25, 2010, 08:02 AM // 08:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshie0808

I really like the new updates.. especially ineptitude, shared burden and panic. Still, I find it hard to give up Necro primary's cause of the benefits of soul reaping.

The problem I run into is that I want to use 2 mes elites.. say, panic and SB (so one domination and one illusion).

But using N/Me's, the first I run a 10-11-10 split with SR, (mes attribute), curses
the second I run a split with SR, (mes attribute #2) and I have no idea what 3rd attribute to put.

Using only 2 attribute lines, I cant find enough skills worth bringing (I generally only want the elite + maybe 2 or 3 other mes skills). But other than curses im stumped on a 3rd attribute line. (basically I lack the support from a rt 2ndary)

So my question is for those who are running Mesmer primary heroes, do you run into energy problems? If i do a Me/Rt with a 3 attribute split (FC, dom or illus, and resto) will they run out of energy fast? Do i need blood rit or bip or TPIY?

Has anyone tried out dual/triple mes heros? Any success? How do these match up against other hero builds?

It really depends on what skills you give them, if its mostly 5 energy skills they do pretty good with at least power drain to help, otherwise they will probably need some kind of outside help with their energy.

I've been using dual e-surge dom mesmers with a MB to vanq and so far so good. :P

Myotheraccount · May 25, 2010, 08:52 AM // 08:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

The other illusion spells make it easier for you to PI, for example Frustration and Arcane Conundrum. Add Signet of Clumsiness and Wandering Eye into the mix and you have decent damage.

PI KD foes, foes not attacking, Clumsy/Wandering Eye won't triger as much or get wasted and you end up dealing even less damage. Taking it with this setup is counter-productive.

fireflyry · May 25, 2010, 09:03 AM // 09:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

I can't see much else to Mesmer heroes. They simply don't deal damage.There's simply no room for a Mesmer, and they continue to be subpar. That's my impression.

Re-read the OP.

It's theorycraft, not debate over other classes superiority or the fact DPS is still king.

Interrupts=lol.

distilledwill · May 25, 2010, 10:30 AM // 10:30

The only way I can see myself using 2 mesmer heroes is in a 6 hero build (say, stealing the heroes from my brother!). I already use: N/Mo Discord Bomber with Prot, N/Rt Reapers Mark Healer, Rt/Mo SoS with SoH and Smite Hex. This is a strong defensive set up, which would allow the primarily offensive and control based mesmers to work freely.

If I were to be running an extra 3 heroes I'd go for the following:

[E] Energy Surge, Energy Burn, Mind Wrack, Cry of Frustration, Signet of Weariness, Signet of Disruption, Power Spike, Res (could be a hard res, or res sig).

[E] Ineptitude, Clumsiness, Wandering Eye, Fragility, Frustration, Phantom Pain, Signet of Clumsiness, Res.

Then a healer of some sort, probably WoH with Glyph of LE or a HB Heal Party Monk.

Essentially, I think you'd get a lot out of new mesmers but you have to fully invest in them with little space for secondaries, this makes them difficult to slot in the restricted 3 hero setup - but they slip nicely into a 6 hero dealio.