Curse

Enethyl Nagiwe · Feb 21, 2011, 08:49 PM // 20:49

Hey peeps,
I recently started to do the EOTN dungeon's H/H in HM. I am using the following team setup:

Me: Ele
Air attunement
Chain lightning
Enervating charge
Shock Arrow
Invoke Lightning
3 PvE skills: YMLAD, Ebon Sin support mostly and then PI or Light Of Deldrimor

Heroes:
Monk hero
551 HP/45 energy
12+1+3 HP/ 8 inspiration magic/ 10 divine favor

WoH
Dwayna’s kiss
Patient spirit
Signet of rejuvenation
Dismiss condition
Cure hex
Power drain
Restore Life

Memser hero
576HP/ 45 energy
Domination 12+1+3/ FC 8/ inspiration 10

Panic
Mistrust
Unnatural signet
Wastrel’s Worry
Waste Not, Want not
Power Drain
Ether Feast
Wastrel’s Demise

Rit hero
591HP/42 energy
Communing 12+1+1/ Spawning 12/ resto 3

Signet of Creation
Boon of Creation
Soul Twisting
Shelter
Union
Displacement
Armor of Unfeeling
Flesh of my flesh

Henches : Prot, Devona, Rupt ranger and then other one i like that time

As you can see nothing special ST rit, Panic mesmer and then WoH monk

My questions:
- any suggestions for the mesmer build to let it do more damage
(don't know the mesmer skills that well , never played it rly)

- suggestion for the Rit (i used Energetic was Lee Sha in
stead of the signet but it's not that good either)

- and finally maybe the attribute spreading i use including the runes,
probably superior runes are not that good...

Ok thank you for reading and hope to get some good advice (would like to stick with this 3 heroes,
so don't want advice like omg use 3 necro's or use spiritway etc..)

Regards
Enethyl

thetwistedboy · Feb 21, 2011, 09:42 PM // 21:42

Try swapping the mesmer for an mm. I think that you're party consists of mostly if not all casters, and that is a large problem considering their low armor. An mm will just make some of the monsters hit at the minions instead of your party. If you really want to keep the mesmer, drop WW. Heroes spam that skill like it does something and it triggers very little. They are also relatively stupid with panic.
Forget patient spirit on the monk. In short, the 2 seconds before the actual heal of it makes the hero use something like WoH and overheal by a lot. Dismiss condition isnt as good as spotless soul becaue heros use Dismiss Condition more for the heal than for the condition removal, and as a result, spam it like it does something.
I'm at loss as to the mesmer because I have never played one, but I've come under the impression that they generally aren't very good unless the mesmer is a player.
Your ST is fine, although a the prot henchy can do some of its job, so I would take something else, but then again that's my opinion. I've heard ST heroes work wonders but I've used them only once or twice.
That's my two cents. $10 says I will get yelled at for being a noob? yes?

Sint · Feb 21, 2011, 10:22 PM // 22:22

I like mesmer heroes, I'm currently running this:
Panic [E]
Unnatural Signet
Cry of Frustration
Chaos Storm
Wastrel's Demise
Auspicious Incantation
Cure Hex
Resurrection Chant

All in all not that different, but a little more focused on disruption and trained damage. I think that's what your build is lacking a bit.. pure damage. I'm running this mesmer with my warrior (normally dragon slash or dagger spam), in combination with a mm (n/mo with some prots) and a spirit spam rit (SoS) to roll most HM area's with just the 2 regular monk henchies and then normally the mesmer hench and an ele.

I think if you want to keep the rit, you could switch out the monk hero for a mm and then grab a heal henchie. The mm is both protection as damage (bombing minions) so the henchie should be fine.

akelarumi · Feb 21, 2011, 11:26 PM // 23:26

hmmm......
could say a lot, the former posters are mostly right imo. but.... according to rumours the update for a 7hero-party is very near. so personally i wouldn't invest too much time in get a good 3 hero-party. Although I don't agree on the 7 hero-thing (cause of it taking the M out of MMO even further, but pls don't start that discussion here), it would be a waste of money to prep 3 hero's now while you might want to prep them differently after the update.

sirblack · Feb 21, 2011, 11:30 PM // 23:30

Quote:

would like to stick with this 3 heroes,
so don't want advice like omg use 3 necro's or use spiritway etc..

Even though it's not the advice you want, I would really suggest trying Spiritway. I've taken my own Elementalist through most of the HM dungeons using Spiritway, and it was remarkably effective. If you reconsider, I'll could post more detail about that.

Otherwise...

The first thing I would question is that Monk hero. What you've got there is basically a slightly better Mhenlo. Until that 7-hero update ever comes along, heroes ought to be used for builds that are significantly better than what henchmen can already do. Maybe there are better monk builds out there, however I don't have any specific advice since I usually don't use Monk heroes.

As others already said, I would also recommend swapping out one of those for a Necromancer running some kind of minion master build. The extra targets and body-blocking help keep the monsters from doing as much damage to your party. And a minion-bomber build can give a nice amount of offensive damage too. So I'd say put a Necro hero in place of the Monk hero and run both monk henchmen.

For your Mesmer hero... I don't have any great suggestions myself. (Again because I usually don't use them.) I would say try experimenting with more skills that affect multiple enemies. Complicate? Mirror of Disenchantment? Mistrust? etc.

For the Ritualist hero, I don't have any good suggestions that wouldn't be pushing you towards a Spiritway build.

As for your own character's skills...

Quote:

and then PI or Light Of Deldrimor

Don't drop Pain Inverter for Light of Deldrimor. In fact, almost never drop Pain Inverter. It's incredible when used properly. I would suggest dropping one of the other PvE skills to be able to keep Light of Deldrimor.

Daesu · Feb 22, 2011, 04:31 AM // 04:31

The advices above are generally good. You have too many defenses with not enough damage.

Ditch the monk hero and replace him with a minion bomber.

I am not really a fan of Panic mesmers nowadays. I believe they became popular mostly because of BLA, but BLA is hardly like most places in PvE, with casters bunching up so closely. Anyway, this what I use for my Panic mesmer:

Me/Rt (FC 10+1, Dom 12+1+1, Insp 8+1, Restoration the rest)
====
Panic
Power Drain
Leech Signet
Mistrust
Cry of Frustration
Unnatural Signet
Spiritual Pain
Flesh of my Flesh

I dont usually bring a ST rit because she is overly defensive. I prefer a SoS rit instead.

greenough · Feb 22, 2011, 04:56 AM // 04:56

I didn't bother reading what everyone else said but i recently did the same thing you want to. I used same build for everything, rolled threw most of them. brought healer, prot, earth and mage henches and ran these three hero's for everything. only thing i had to change was drop the panic mez for the necro build on bottom for duncan.

if you stick with the monk hero you might find it hard killing certain mobs with healers because you won't be able to out dmg them.

Daesu · Feb 22, 2011, 08:30 AM // 08:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenough

No PS hero? Without the ability to micro PS, it can get interesting in HM, especially for the OP's ele who doesn't carry SY.

distilledwill · Feb 22, 2011, 09:21 AM // 09:21

First off - I would take the resurrect off the Monk. Its a recipe for disaster; consider the following:
You engage a large mob, your monk valiantly heals on, but eventually becomes overwhelmed and one of your damage dealers falls to the ground. The monk stops healing to resurrect the player - most likely leading to other deaths.
I say replace Ether Feast on your Mesmer for a resurrect.

As other people have said, enemies hit hard in HM. So I'd consider removing the +3 runes in favour of +1 ones, it will increase your survivability. With that in mind, you really need to have Protective Spirit in there somewhere. Perhaps in the space where you have the res on the monk? Failing that, drop the monk entirely for a MM (with signet of lost souls) or SoS Rit (with Siphon Spirit) - they both have space on their bar for protective spirit. That would also increase your damage.

Overall, your build is far too defensive - you've got a dedicated healer, and a protective spirit spammer. Replacing one of your defense heroes with a damage dealer with protection spells will increase your killing speed tenfold.

As for changing the Panic build, this is what I run:

Panic [E]
Wastrel's Demise
Mistrust
Unnatural Signet
Drain Enchantment
Power Drain
Guilt
Glyph of Lesser Energy

Dom: 12+1+1
Inspiration: 9+1
Fast Casting: 9+1

thetwistedboy · Feb 22, 2011, 06:02 PM // 18:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by distilledwill

Replacing one of your defense heroes with a damage dealer with protection spells will increase your killing speed tenfold.

Tenfold is a bit much...
The problem with most of the SE dungeons is that mobs are large, and they hit super hard in in HM to boot. In my opinion, his team has good defense, but it has the wrong kind. I would say replace the ST with a MM to just stop them from hitting your team almost completely.
I play a warrior, so my teams damage comes almost exclusively from me, and I am aware that Elementalist DPS suffers greatly in HM. So his team needs damage. But I have also come under the impression that heroes are terrible with damage. I'm not sure what to say as far as damage goes except that spirit spammers and an ineptitude mesmer are the only things that I've seen kill things. I know that minion bombers are strong, but I am beginning to prefer a minion master with BotM, because I rarely see the minion bombs actually kill anything. I'd say that having an enemy mob just fire away at some mob of minions affected by Spawning Power is better than them all dying at the start of a fight and only taking off half the health of a couple things in a mob.

greenough · Feb 22, 2011, 11:12 PM // 23:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

No PS hero? Without the ability to micro PS, it can get interesting in HM, especially for the OP's ele who doesn't carry SY.

i found that in the places where ps is actually needed it gets stripped off you causing more dmg then if u were without. he could easly switch classes to e/mo with prot spirit or e/rt with union and shelter. i don't think and air ele is going to cut it either way but he asked for help with hero's not his build.

Daesu · Feb 23, 2011, 03:55 AM // 03:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenough

i found that in the places where ps is actually needed it gets stripped off you causing more dmg then if u were without. he could easly switch classes to e/mo with prot spirit or e/rt with union and shelter. i don't think and air ele is going to cut it either way but he asked for help with hero's not his build.

Although PS can get stripped, it would still be more useful with it, than without it.

Even though he can play an e/mo with prot spirit or e/rt with union and shelter, he doesn't need to. I certainly didn't on my ele.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thetwistedboy

But I have also come under the impression that heroes are terrible with damage.

Not really, if you have good bars they do decent damage, it is a matter of perspective. Just don't expect them to out damaged a SC team loaded with 24 PvE skills and cons.

Quote:

I know that minion bombers are strong, but I am beginning to prefer a minion master with BotM, because I rarely see the minion bombs actually kill anything.

However heroes are much better playing a minion bomber than a traditional minion master. If you want a traditional minion master, go get a human player.

Enethyl Nagiwe · Feb 23, 2011, 12:09 PM // 12:09

Ok thank you everyone for the usefull tips, i will certainly try them out.

And i like to play damage on my ele, and since fire is not an option (and water is kinda lol), i go air. Could try earth aswell but think the damage is inferior to the air magic. It could add more support tho.
And i know AP nuker is probably better, but i'm kinda fed up with it, it's just hitting 1,2,3,4 over and over again, don't like it.

Thx a lot all

Fire The Nutter · Feb 24, 2011, 04:30 PM // 16:30

What ive learnt recently from the forums, is to take Heroes who do more than 1 job. Greenough builds are v.similar to what i run with my heroes. They provide offense and defense. Yes i do like PS and Aegis around too so i tend to run a mm with those (and SoA) so i get a meat shield, with lots of energy but also a few good prots.

Other than that, try and make yourself useful (my main is a Ranger, hard work i know). I've always favoured an Earth Ele, espec for the large mobs that you could be talking about. Churning Earth, enfeebling blood etc (pvx has a fairly good generic build around this). That way you can limit enemy movement, mass weaken and single target knockdown as well as providing AoE dmg. Sure other classes will better that but i find the earth build seems to give good control. PI is always a smart move imo as well.

final thing, always remember youre up against AI and its HM. They will always attack and faster, making SS, SV, Empathy good to have. They will run quicker so slowing them down or punishing them for doing that is good (hence churning). I'm not the best at all this, i just try and take on other peoples advice (where its not a flame war lol)

pingu666 · Feb 28, 2011, 10:14 PM // 22:14

agree with the MM stuff, couple of skills ill recommend for him/her. blood ritual, even with just a few points its pretty useful (battery monks etc), and blood bond might help if your MM keeps getting killed

I prefer vamparic minions, and dislike the spell that creates 2 minions from 1 corpse, rather have 10 strong minions than 10 weaker ones, who might be better for bombing, i admit

Don Zardeone · Mar 01, 2011, 12:04 PM // 12:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by pingu666

agree with the MM stuff, couple of skills ill recommend for him/her. blood ritual, even with just a few points its pretty useful (battery monks etc), and blood bond might help if your MM keeps getting killed

I prefer vamparic minions, and dislike the spell that creates 2 minions from 1 corpse, rather have 10 strong minions than 10 weaker ones, who might be better for bombing, i admit

Bombing and triggering dwayna's sorrow and replacing with the one that comes from jagged bones

Morte66 · Mar 01, 2011, 12:17 PM // 12:17

I found these two guides extremely useful for playing an ele (and necro, and indeed warrior) in HM:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/a...t10419956.html
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/p...t10447337.html

Daesu · Mar 01, 2011, 04:54 PM // 16:54

Don't change your character's build just to use some generic heroway. In other words, make your heroes synergize around your own character's build, rather than the other way round.

Different professions are more effective playing different roles and skill bars, so it makes more sense for your heroes to be built around supporting those roles that optimize your character's performance.