Curse

tuna-fish_sushi · Mar 06, 2011, 04:03 AM // 04:03

Hey guys anyone know a good Soul Twisting build that heroes can use efficiently, tried looking at pvxwiki and searching guru for some builds here is what i have so far. I really like overly defensive builds even if it sacrifices some fire power. Also how well does a soul twisting rit work with minions cause I generally run 3 minions master discord (I love minion armies and please don't bash on discordway in this thread... it works that is all there is to it).

Boon of Creation
Signet of Creation (too much energy management?)
Soul Twisting
Shelter
Union
Shadowsong (hero may use soul twisting with this instead of the other more important two)
(optional)
(optional) (mabye a res?)

Gabs88 · Mar 06, 2011, 04:32 AM // 04:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by tuna-fish_sushi

Hey guys anyone know a good Soul Twisting build that heroes can use efficiently, tried looking at pvxwiki and searching guru for some builds here is what i have so far. I really like overly defensive builds even if it sacrifices some fire power. Also how well does a soul twisting rit work with minions cause I generally run 3 minions master discord (I love minion armies and please don't bash on discordway in this thread... it works that is all there is to it).

Boon of Creation
Signet of Creation (too much energy management?)
Soul Twisting
Shelter
Union
Shadowsong (hero may use soul twisting with this instead of the other more important two)
(optional)
(optional) (mabye a res?)

They generally will mess it up little by little. They use the skill but theyre not very proficient in doing so and often if its on cooldown they'll keep spawning spirits and let them go on cooldown too.

Something along the lines of an explosive growth minion master is a lot more effective.

LifeInfusion · Mar 06, 2011, 04:44 AM // 04:44

You need to micro a ST rit. They don't put the spirits up before battle. You also need to make sure Shelter goes up before Union.

Boon of creation if running Shelter/Dissonance or other 25energy spirits, armor of unfeeling for Shelter/Displacement/Union/Earthbind.

15 communing, 12-13 spawning, 3 restor

Boon of Creation
Soul Twisting
Shelter
Displacement (do not use in DOA, or you take 50 per block)
Union
Dulled weapon/Disenchantment/Dissonance (disabled if spirit)
Armor of unfeeling
Flesh of my flesh (disabled)

Kaida the Heartless · Mar 06, 2011, 06:18 AM // 06:18

Honestly, I've been running this:

Death Magic 10, Communing 10+2, Spawning Power 11+3

Boon of Creation
Explosive Growth
Spirit's Gift
Soul Twisting [E]
Shelter
Death Nova/Union/Displacement/Flesh of My Flesh
Animate Bone Minions
Signet of Creation

Definitely not standard, but has been working quite well, even for Hero AI standards. Allows enough overlap that the Hero usually has Soul Twisting up, ensuring the party remains protected. It's untested there, but I still wouldn't recommend this in DoA.

Use at your own risk. There are valid arguments both for and against the combination of Minions and Shelter/Union/Displacement. Honestly though, VQing has become easy enough now that this could be a fun alternative if you are bored.

Chthon · Mar 06, 2011, 07:43 AM // 07:43

Soul Twisting
Boon of Creation
Signet of Creation (no, not too much e-management. Note: AI usage is not the greatest on this skill)
Shelter
Displacement
Union
Armor of Unfeeling (also not great AI usage)
Optional.

For the optional, FoMF isn't a bad choice. Earthbind is nice in teams with significant KDs. Otherwise take a communing skill of your choice.

Improvavel · Mar 06, 2011, 09:02 AM // 09:02

I generally use 1 soul twister vs mallyx (no boon of creation for obvious reason and definitely Earthbind for also obvious reasons).

This is an hero you will probably want to keep 1 eye on his bar as the AI is not optimal.

The spirits will die pretty fast if the minions are under fire.

What is your goal for using this build? Reduce damage minions take or just another layer of defense?

Dzjudz · Mar 06, 2011, 03:22 PM // 15:22

Shelter is mostly the staple spirit of an ST rit.

If you're running an SoS rit as well, take painful bond on that and then Anguish on the ST Rit. I personally like Dissonance as well, ST removes the prohibitive energy cost and recharge.

Too bad heroes don't really know how to use ST. In general, I wouldn't use more spirits than ST can recharge in one go, so usually a max of 3 spirits. Even then, heroes sometimes cast spirits without ST and mess up the recharge. I often see ST builds with 5 or even 6 spirits. This will just not work.

For optionals that are not spirits, there's not too much in either Spawning Power or Communing.

Armor of Unfeeling and Signet of Creation share the same problem of AI not knowing when to use them, usually both are cast when only one spirit is up.

Maybe Dulled Weapon works alright, I've been using it the times I used an ST rit.

In short: if you don't like to micro the hero, Communing heroes aren't great. If you do, they are much better.

satanail · Mar 06, 2011, 05:37 PM // 17:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless

Honestly, I've been running this:

Death Magic 10, Communing 10+2, Spawning Power 11+3

Boon of Creation
Explosive Growth
Spirit's Gift
Soul Twisting [E]
Shelter
Death Nova/Union/Displacement/Flesh of My Flesh
Animate Bone Minions
Signet of Creation

Definitely not standard, but has been working quite well, even for Hero AI standards. Allows enough overlap that the Hero usually has Soul Twisting up, ensuring the party remains protected. It's untested there, but I still wouldn't recommend this in DoA.

Use at your own risk. There are valid arguments both for and against the combination of Minions and Shelter/Union/Displacement. Honestly though, VQing has become easy enough now that this could be a fun alternative if you are bored.

I like doing this with Death Magic at a very low setting (3 or so). This allows a few low-level/armor minions to attract attention and even tank a little bit. Also in conjunction with spells like Death Nova (on another hero with proper Death Magic rank) and Judge's Intervention it works good because they blow up faster than full strength minions.

tuna-fish_sushi · Mar 06, 2011, 07:55 PM // 19:55

mainly just want the party wide defense, prefer the minions to die because i have 3 copies of death nova spread out among my heroes.

pakhavit · Mar 06, 2011, 08:27 PM // 20:27

Minion should not be affected by Spirit!

For more opness :X

Kaida the Heartless · Mar 06, 2011, 10:00 PM // 22:00

The nice part is that when Sheltering your minions, you cause Death Nova explosions via the minion cap instead of direct damage. They have Death Nova because the cap kills the oldest minions, which are also the ones that have degened into low health.

Kunder · Mar 07, 2011, 02:06 AM // 02:06

I go with:

ST
Shelter
Recuperation
Armor of Unfeeling
Spirit Light
Protective Was Kaolai
Boon of Creation
Signet of Creation

Only 2 spirits (and only 1 that self-destructs) makes sure that they won't be stupid. Shelter is the only important spirit, Union/Displacement are nice but ultimately meaningless next to Shelter (which also combines with minions and SY much better, both of which I'm running). AoU seems to be used right most often since the hero usually throws up Shelter first, and of course if you micro at the beginning of battle that is never a problem.

Do note that ST is bad (and shelter is horrible) when you are minion bombing with bone minions of low level. This is because you want them to die, and shelter in particular will activate on 30 damage or less hits (which is basically everything in HM given that bone minions have like 40 armor, meaning it goes down instantly). Its only useful for MMs, where you want to keep your minions alive. When you have lvl 21 horrors with 500 health and 80ish armor, standard enemy attacks don't normally do enough damage to get past the 10% threshold and eat up shelter usage, so it stays there to prevent your army from exploding when an energy surge mesmer or fire ele hits it for 250 damage.