Curse

Necromas · Nov 21, 2010, 09:29 PM // 21:29

Thinking of this team for my rit.

Player does raw damage. Olias and Livia backline but still provide offensive help with their elites. Whispers provides minions to wall and attack that also heal and go boom when they die. Hayda supports spirits with anthems (every spirit attack is an attack skill) and provides party wide damage reduction and +armor, GFTE also increases minion damage a little. The eles in general spam damage with searing flames and cause burning to synergize with the paragon. Sousuke causes awesome conditions. Vekk interrupts. Zhed casts splinter weapon on the minions and paragon. Note glowstone will net 6 energy with a recharge of 7 seconds.

I should probably replace zhed with a hero rit and do an SoGM build myself while the hero rit does SoS w/ splinter weapon. I guess this would be the normal mode version and that the hard mode one.

Kaylan · Nov 22, 2010, 12:14 AM // 00:14

Hi, please rate my composition of popular builds.

I had in mind to have a minimum of microing.
I dont like minions, they always slack behind, despite being a mighty source of defence and damage.
I like very good defence, so I can storm in without carefully planning and my party keeps me going. It should be enough to get ps and sb before charging.

I like WoQ, maybe I can bring it to my build better?

The two mages and the second mesmer could be changed with other damagecasters depending on the locality.

Sprites · Nov 22, 2010, 01:08 AM // 01:08

just a throw , there is room for improvement , like i don't really like cry of pain , but it's cheaper than cry of frustration ...

Bewn · Nov 22, 2010, 03:57 AM // 03:57

Azazello · Nov 22, 2010, 04:36 AM // 04:36

Thought I would post something I was working on that has no panic, sos, sogm, discord, minions etc, just for the sake of variety.

Of course, for something more sensible, probably be starting with these 5 on necro:

Kaylan · Nov 22, 2010, 02:20 PM // 14:20

@Azazello Those Derwisch healers look interesting, can you explain the difference and benefits over monks?
Your orders ele has a pve skill. In my opinion er is overkill just for those 2 spells. A necro is fully able to keep them up at 14 or 16 blood and still has a half bar free.

Your prot rit is similar to the one from pvx. In my opinion he doesnt work. The block spirit dies way to fast, consuming st charges until the hero pops ghost without st. And thats the end. You cant afford casting the spirits out of st, the cooldowns are too long. You would end up with 20s or so without shelter.
My solution was to leave out the blocking spirit and just treat the prot rit as a groupwide protective spirit + 15 damage shield. With two defensive ghosts (and maybe one offensive which dont need to repop that often) st is always avaiable. Of course you need to heal more without the blocking spirit. But it is controlled damage, which can be healed quite good.

novawhiz · Nov 22, 2010, 02:50 PM // 14:50

derv healers may seem fun but overall a terrible idea.

No divine favor= gg

Pyrthas · Nov 22, 2010, 02:57 PM // 14:57

I thought the point of that rit was to micro everything (and always flag it a full aggro circle away; that's how you can get away with two sups). Running SoS doesn't take a lot of attention anyway.

That said, I'm pretty confident you don't need signet of creation. When I run that, I throw extinguish and rebirth on the bar just because I can't come up with anything else to fill it out. I never run out of energy with that, even with a shield/spear set

Azazello · Nov 22, 2010, 03:22 PM // 15:22

Kaylan, yeah that ele is me

Going to try EBSoH instead of EBSoW now, since it turned out that 3 of the physicals are ranged. I wanted to try something with finale of restoration, figured orders would be good for that, then figured orders also makes a good battery for derv healers.

I haven't tested any of the builds in that team, just mucking around with it. The theory goes that orders = 8 energy every ~7 seconds to each healer, while aegis costs 6 and gives the other healer 4 for a net of 2. I think the dervs should probably be taking faithful intervention instead of restore life, to make them less appetising targets under symbiosis.

Symbiosis is the reason the orders needs to run ether renewal btw. With taint/vigorous/er/aor/aegis and one orders up, you're sacrificing 182 health per orders cast. ER lets you keep ahead of that, since the symbiosis is only bm 8.

With all the enchant spam, dwayna's kiss heals for like 150+, even if someone gets stripped they'll have taint vigorous and two orders up again very quickly. With symbiosis, imbue health heals for 300. Not that I'm even sure heroes use imbue health. It's all theory.

Even so, I'm pretty sure it's a bad theory. There's TONS of party healing and big single target heals but barely any prot and no disruption. Just trying to play around with skills other than spirits, minions, or ae interrupts. Maybe it'll give someone a great idea.

I like your thinking on that rit btw, but doesn't shelter die pretty fast without displacement backup? If you have an imbagon and no mm I could definitely see ditching displacement, but not sure otherwise. That rit does ok in regular areas HM and elite areas NM, but elite HM it can run out of ST charges pretty quick.

*Oh yeah, I did want to try it with a bonder carrying aegis and convert hexes instead of that kahmu, but I hate bonding. Still, at least then it would have good prot.

Kaylan · Nov 22, 2010, 04:22 PM // 16:22

Regarding the prot rit. On hard mode, mobs attack very fast, some attacks even hit multiple people so more procs are consumed.
Displacement backing up shelter is something i didn't thought through properly. But with three defensive spirits st gets overwhelmed, leading to spirits poped out of st.
Taking out one spirit or switching to an offensive spirit resolved the problem for me. Since shelter is the important one, i kept shelter.

I understand your enchant synergie, interesting.

Pyrthas · Nov 22, 2010, 04:53 PM // 16:53

I still don't buy what you're saying about the prot rit. First, an offensive spirit will be useless if you're placing your defensive spirits properly, unless you're really microing that hero. (I'm lazy, so I don't really want to have to deal with repositioning from backline to waaay backline in a fight.) Second, I think that at least for most HM areas, you can still easily get enough blocking. If you're going up against a lot of spammy physicals or something, you set up your spirits, wait a bit, hit Armor of Unfeeling, hit ST again, wait for it to mostly recharge (edit: and even then, you only need to do this if you're expecting to spam the hell out of Displacement for the first few seconds of the fight), and attack. Then you get 16 blocks from the first Displacement followed by 4 more Displacements at 8 blocks each (plus some more on one of them if you can get another AoU off; best to save that for when you refresh Shelter and Union, of course), all without running the risk of using up ST charges that you need for Shelter and Union. That's a good amount of blocks.

Some HM areas will still overwhelm that, but it can handle a lot, in my experience.

Xx_Sorin_xX · Nov 22, 2010, 06:27 PM // 18:27

Will heroes other than MM cast things like Death nova and Dwanya's sorrow on the MM's minions?

Necromas · Nov 22, 2010, 06:45 PM // 18:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xx_Sorin_xX

Will heroes other than MM cast things like Death nova and Dwanya's sorrow on the MM's minions?

Yes.

But I'd be wary putting death nova on a non-bomber though just because the long cast time and spammability will mean they either wont have much time to use it, or won't have much time to use their other skills. This isn't much of a problem on the MM since they have a lot of free time when not summoning minions. Also the MM will have the highest death magic rank anyways.

Dwayna's sorrow on the other hand works great on a monk instead of the MM, the monk will have higher healing prayers than an MM could ever afford and since a 1s cast covers the entire pile of minions it's not at all a time sink.

Kaylan · Nov 22, 2010, 09:05 PM // 21:05

With placing spirits before fight and getting armor and a fresh st, the three defensive spirits are quite good. Without that, I prefer to have a relyable shelter + union, instead of all three where shelter will run out in a serious fight.

SmokingHotImolation · Nov 23, 2010, 03:25 PM // 15:25

Defensive communing spirits + minions = anti synergi... Just saying.

P_A_A · Nov 23, 2010, 03:48 PM // 15:48

I guess it'll be along that lines...Thats when im playing melee ofc. Would make some variations if going caster...

Azazello · Nov 23, 2010, 09:05 PM // 21:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmokingHotImolation

Defensive communing spirits + minions = anti synergi... Just saying.

I find the opposite. Defensive communing spirits + death nova is definitely anti synergy, but when your bone minions can survive a dozen hits from an aatxe it's hard to die. Of course your spirits disappear quickly when there is any aoe around, but pain inverter is a good fix for that.

Life Bringing · Nov 23, 2010, 09:57 PM // 21:57

There really isnt any area of the game that really warrants a hero running a defensive ST rit.

FoxBat · Nov 24, 2010, 05:51 AM // 05:51

I typically do soul twisting, shelter, and rest offense communing spirits. Damage is notably lower than SoGM, but the recharges on summons gets problematic when you are blitzing through vanqs and the like. Plus if lazy like me and you don't micro and they get their spirits killed, its less of an issue . Plus shelter is amazing and the other two defensive skills not even close to as good. So spamming shelter + moderately decent damage in one char slot really seems the best compromise in most situations.

Dusk_ · Nov 24, 2010, 06:46 AM // 06:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Life Bringing

There really isnt any area of the game that really warrants a hero running a defensive ST rit.

I disagree...a defencive ST Rit is far more universal, far less micro intensive and much less failure proof than most of the prot support that usually gets lugged around.

That said, if I was running it with a H/H, I've found that anything less than all-out offence is a waste with the other 7 bars (monk hench plus one SoS hybrid support at most). And it's usually only when I want avoid minion baggage...and I'm not running SoGM+SoS heroes...

If I was trying it with 7 Heroes, I'd probably be running 3 hybrids and ignoring a dedicated healer altogether. It basically does exactly what you want for a steamroller build: Sets up a temporary shield and lets everyone else spam out the damage.