Curse

FengShuiDove · Nov 19, 2010, 02:42 PM // 14:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow Dragon

while i don't know how to post the funky pics basically my team will consist of the following:

Me: Defy Pain tank
Panic mesmer
WoH monk
Prot monk
Protection based spirit rit
savannah heat nuker x2
flesh golem mm

This won't be near enough damage if you intend to do HM. Panic is shutdown and can provide some good damage, but then you've got 3 bars dedicated entirely to support, flesh golem is subpar for minions (humans should run AotL or OoU and heroes should run AotL/Jagged with Death Nova), and in HM 2 Fire eles are gonna just cause scatter and do small damage due to HM armor buff.

Making as few suggestions as possible, I'd try:

-Swap out your "Protection" (I'm assuming Soul Twisting) Rit for an SoS with some channeling. If you're insistent on more support, make him secondary Resto and toss in an extra PwK and either Mend Body and Soul or Spirit Light.
-Flesh Golem is bad. There are a lot of good options for MMs, so pick another one that you like, or experiment. Without a doubt, a hero minion bomber is one of the most effective hero builds. You can even go /Mo and throw in at least Aegis.
-A dedicated Prot Monk for a hero probably isn't great, because heroes don't pre-prot, just reactively prot in most instances. In other words, you're better off having a Weapon of Warding or Protective Spirit in the party carried by a hybrid plus some decent healing. I'd replace your Prot with a smiting Monk carrying Smiter's Boon and the 3 standard utility smites (Reversal of Damage, Smite Condition, Smite Hex). If you feel like you need more support out of him, you can make the elite Tease, Empathic Removal, or Signet of Removal.
-Two Eles isn't ideal, but if you love Eles, make one of them an Unsteady Ground nuker, and make one of them /N for some debuffs (Weaken Armor, I'm looking at you).

And for your build, I hate to say, but Defy Pain tanking is not great. As a Warrior, you have the potential to crank out some of the most impressive damage in the game. It seems like your whole hero build is constructed around survival, but really, the best defense is a good offense. It doesn't matter how much support you pack, if you don't kill fast enough, eventually everyone runs out of energy.

Hope it helps

Jade Zephyr · Nov 19, 2010, 03:25 PM // 15:25

What you want for your 7 hero team;
Meat shields (Minions and/or spirits)
AoE damage (almost exclusively)
Hybrids (with both damage, disruption and support skills)
Healer (just one)
Protection (never a monk. Aegis and Prot Spirit on your hybrids, Watch Yourself, passive defense etc.
Energy managment
Hard rez (2-3)
Strong party healing (Life, Koalai, Recuperation, Heaven's Delight, Dwaynas Sorrow, Heal Party etc)
Anti melee (Enfeebling blood is the best)

What builds can do this?
MM with Prot Spirit and Aegis is perfect.
SoS rit with Splinter Weapon (AoE) and Kaolai/Life/Recuperation (party healing) and Death Pact Signet.
Energy Surge/Panic mesmer; Armor ignoring AoE damage and disruption. Cry of frustration and good energy managment.
Smiting heros; Good damage, good support, decent defense. Works well in pairs.
Communing Rit; Good defense, decent damage, more bodies.

Physical still have the best DPS in the game, if you buff them and can keep them clean.

spray04 · Nov 19, 2010, 03:43 PM // 15:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

There's nothing wrong with Discord if you can find something to do with it.

Thoughts on that build:

1. Strongly suggest Mark of Pain, Barbs etc on your bar instead of Enfeebling Blood and Shadow of Fear. You don't need the defense (you have two N/Rt semi-healers + 1 Rit semi-healer, 2 spirit spammers, prots on MM, etc). I'd suggest Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support instead of Necrosis as well, and to lose the Res Sig, but up to you.
2. Mesmer bar will not have enough energy. How to fix the Panic bar is something I don't know for sure myself. Best option I see right now is to make it a /Rt semi-healer as well, but then you already have 3 semi-healers so you won't need the defense.
3. You might want to bring more damage on the N/Rt semi-healers (Rising Bile, Putrid Bile and I don't know what).
4. Definitely don't run the Earthshaker Warrior. Unless (or even if) you're going to micro all those skills, what's it good for? The AI doesn't play Warriors well too.

Thanks for the comments! I kept Necrosis because I thought it was basically the same as Discord and synergized well with the Discord builds. I also agree that I might have too much healing.

Any suggestions as to what to replace the warrior with?

FengShuiDove · Nov 19, 2010, 04:12 PM // 16:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by spray04

Any suggestions as to what to replace the warrior with?

If you like a "physical" in that spot, you could toss in a R/P Command Spear-chucker or a P/ using a similar build. "Stand Your Ground", Anthem of Envy, Go for the Eyes, and Find Their Weakness all come to mind. I ran a R/P with Anthem of Envy and GftE and it worked better than I expected. Also, it was pretty cool to see a Ranger with the wings.

spray04 · Nov 19, 2010, 05:13 PM // 17:13

Ok after taking the suggestions to add more damage and add a different physical, I've decided to go with something like this lol.

Necromas · Nov 19, 2010, 06:32 PM // 18:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by FyrFytr998

Any reason I can't get either of those template apps to work?

The english version of the pawned one can be downloaded here: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/p...t10391290.html

The other one just sucks.

distilledwill · Nov 19, 2010, 08:22 PM // 20:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by spray04

-SHNIP-

I believe your Rit and Mes will have problems with energy, other than that you'll be fine.

spray04 · Nov 19, 2010, 08:29 PM // 20:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by distilledwill

I believe your Rit and Mes will have problems with energy, other than that you'll be fine.

Thanks, which rit? (or both?)

Life Bringing · Nov 19, 2010, 11:25 PM // 23:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by spray04

Thanks, which rit? (or both?)

The SoS for sure. Throw in Siphon and you should be fine. As for the rest, of the build, there are a couple things id probably change if i was going to stick with your current setup. Lemme boot up my pawned and ill post it :>

Edit:
Alright, this is what i came up with for you.

10 open attribs on the mesmer and 10(or 12, really) on the SoS to alter depending on the area. Honestly, you could take those 7 heroes and condense them into 5. I think the single target damage of a Discord team is really wasted when you have so much power at your disposal, so i would change that as well

galactic · Nov 20, 2010, 12:42 AM // 00:42

8 sos to clear fast

Life Bringing · Nov 20, 2010, 03:54 AM // 03:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by galactic

8 sos to clear fast

You are aware that spirits dont stack.....?

Necromas · Nov 20, 2010, 06:38 AM // 06:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Life Bringing

You are aware that spirits dont stack.....?

He meant Signet Of (lost) Souls.

Ironically it would still have a similar problem seeing as there are only 3 necro heroes.

spray04 · Nov 20, 2010, 06:51 AM // 06:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Life Bringing

Edit:
Alright, this is what i came up with for you.

10 open attribs on the mesmer and 10(or 12, really) on the SoS to alter depending on the area. Honestly, you could take those 7 heroes and condense them into 5. I think the single target damage of a Discord team is really wasted when you have so much power at your disposal, so i would change that as well

Ok I've been convinced by Ebon Assassin; indeed better to have it - and AP makes it great. I prefer to keep all the curses hexes on myself though so heroes' attributes don't have to be spread too thin by entering curses. MoP and Enfeebling Blood remain my favorites.

For the changes on the necros, I never really understood why Masochism was so popular on the minion bomber. If it were a MM, then sure, it makes the minions higher leveled, but for creating minion bombs, I'm not sure the extra 2 attributes really make a difference and may actually prevent the minions from being weak and exploding.

I also don't think Foul Feast is necessary when I have 2 Mend Body and Soul's, which remove one condition for each spirit present; it was good for when there weren't the other hero slots for spirit spamming, but now we're able to run the ritualist heroes with the necros.

The ritualist changes are pretty minor; I actually did some testing and saw that the SoS ritualist was not so low on energy; heroes don't use Spirit Siphon properly anyway. The two slots free there, I might as well keep Union and Armor of Unfeeling, really for Hard Mode when the party always gets hit hard.

The real changes to contemplate are indeed the mesmer and the last slot. I'm gonna go with Chaos Storm and Power Spike over the Wastrels to solve the energy problem. Gonna do some more thinking on the Ranger/Paragon slot...

Thanks for the feedback!

EDIT: Ok this is what I'm settling with:

PurpleFission · Nov 21, 2010, 01:45 PM // 13:45

Help me out with this one

FengShuiDove · Nov 21, 2010, 03:04 PM // 15:04

Your SoGM is going to have significant energy issues with that. Anguish, Shadowsong, and Union are energy heavy and you don't have any E-Management. Consider getting rid of something and putting in Boon of Creation. As I've said, I personally don't like SoGM Rits, but if you keep it, it needs more energy.

Your Paragon, however, will not have any energy issues. Ever. Pretty neat looking build on him.

For your SS, I would consider bringing Enfeebling Blood over Suffering for a few reasons. First, EB is an extremely fast, cheap, and effective debuff in HM. One of the more essential skills on a good Curses bar (although it does kind of fly under the radar). Suffering costs a lot (not usually a problem for a Necro, but I like to play it safe) and is minimally effective. A few points of degen won't make a difference. A bunch of damage from hard-hitting melee in HM being negated will though.

Lastly, and it's mostly my preference (and somewhat even area dependence), I'd take out Recovery and put in either Rejuvenation or another PwK. I've never found Recovery to be a great spirit, especially if your team build has adequate condition removal build in.

Oh, one more thing. Again, it's my preference. I'd replace the SoGM with a Smiting Monk with your standard smites (Reversal of Damage, Smite Condition, Smite Hex) buffed with Smiter's Boon. Also can carry Strength of Honor so your SoS is freed up to run a different brand of utility. Perhaps Blood Magic with Blood Bond and Order of Pain (which are extremely effective). The utility of a Smite Monk is not to be ignored. It has damage, healing, and removal in 4 skills, and you have the added utility of being able to run pretty much whatever elite you want to cater to the area you're in. For the lulz, I even ran my standard Smite Monk with Shield of Judgment in SoO NM a few days ago. I figured it'd be largely wasted but it really tore things up in a few spots.

Hope it helps!

PurpleFission · Nov 21, 2010, 03:51 PM // 15:51

Thanks Feng, I just thought with the SoGM I would get more benefit from the paragon chants/shouts. But I will definitely test out the Smiter instead. Or I could just give the SoGM some e-management? I put Suffering in there because I didnt know what else to put in it's spot

I'm not sure about the 1st Necro, do you think having minions on him would be overkill?

Also, I was wondering if my bars lacked hex removal, thought i could put some on the mes?

FyrFytr998 · Nov 21, 2010, 04:27 PM // 16:27

Here's the set up I'm gonna try with my Rit first off. The ST Rit will be micro'ed by me to ensure proper spirit sequence. I love the use of 8 offensive spirits with 10 minions.

Lol, since I play a lot of NM, the possibilities are endless. Unlike HM, my ELE heroes might actually get a workout again other than ER Prot.

Pyrthas · Nov 21, 2010, 06:32 PM // 18:32

Do heroes cast splinter weapon on minions? I recall that not working, but maybe I missed a fix. Or do you just use a bunch of spears or micro it onto your minions?

As for a contribution, I'm not really sure what I'll run. Something like this, I guess.

Panic
SoS resto
SoGM with all the (non-elite) communing spirits that attack
MM prot
N/Rt resto with Icy Veins or something
3x RoJ

The first four are what I currently run. I can't really convince myself that something like Inept, SS, or Pain of Disenchantment would be better than all the RoJ nonsense, but I'll experiment, I guess.

Dzjudz · Nov 21, 2010, 07:39 PM // 19:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyrthas

Do heroes cast splinter weapon on minions? I recall that not working, but maybe I missed a fix. Or do you just use a bunch of spears or micro it onto your minions?

Since May 6 2010.

Pyrthas · Nov 21, 2010, 07:57 PM // 19:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzjudz

Since May 6 2010.

Cool, thanks.