Curse

Rites · Mar 12, 2011, 06:15 PM // 18:15

i am really trying to stick to my paras and rangers, so far this build has done well in VQ the last 2 days, but apparently the paragons have issues with mesmer spells (too energy intensive it seems).

Edit: just noticed my MM shows 2 Sigs of lost souls, but the build actually has SoLS and Sig of Sorrow

Was thinking of changing my ranger from SoS to ST with shelter for more defense and make one of the hero rangers a SoS/volley

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pugs Not Drugs

i would put a melee in their somewhere
you cant rely on minions to ball up mobs for barrage

i micro Olias.
i send him to middle of mob, cast all his prots on him, then while he has their attention his minions gather and i pull him out .its a pain, but easier than switching out the team. you have to do roughly the same with a physical hero anyway, you just dont worry as much

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calista Blackblood

4 copies of GFTE?

considering the weakness of a ranger's attacks, i find constant GFtE spam from the 4 heroes keeps the crits more constant

Calista Blackblood · Mar 12, 2011, 06:21 PM // 18:21

I would nearly be worth dropping a para for a Dom-prot mes and maybe Dwayna's Sorrow somewhere

Jagged Bomber has two copies of SOLS *Saw your edit*

4 copies of GFTE?

Pugs Not Drugs · Mar 12, 2011, 06:26 PM // 18:26

i would put a melee in their somewhere
you cant rely on minions to ball up mobs for barrage

chuckles79 · Mar 12, 2011, 07:25 PM // 19:25

Callista is right, a Panic based mesmer would do good in that mix, maybe swapping out a ranger and making the paras more physically oriented.

Misdreamer · Mar 12, 2011, 09:41 PM // 21:41

All this phisical damage... I'm thinking orders necro

**Marty Silverblade** · Mar 12, 2011, 11:16 PM // 23:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Misdreamer

All this phisical damage... I'm thinking orders necro

Perhaps swap the UA for Racthoh's Orders/Dwayna Derv. I haven't tried it, but it looks decent. That way you'll get orders and still keep your party heals. Dark Fury means the paras will be able to spam their shouts more, so you can lower Leadership and increase the other attributes.

distilledwill · Mar 13, 2011, 12:01 AM // 00:01

Also - 3 Barragers and you with Volley and no Splinter Weapon? Are you insane?!

You've got a decent amount of party heal but you could probably do with some single target spike heals in there. Perhaps swap out your final Ranger for a healer of some sort.

Kaida the Heartless · Mar 13, 2011, 02:29 AM // 02:29

Sorry I booted your Paragons. Couldn't really fit em safely into the build. Having an Orders makes up for it by a large margin, promise!

This build will make you a fortress. I don't carry in-bar reses because I carry scrolls. The unfamiliar bow attack on the Rangers is Zojun's Shot. It keeps your rangers up front to take damage while returning a nice amount of damage as well. Really underrated.

Now that I think about it, I defaulted to MBaS, SL, and PWK on the Orders when it has Foul Feast. Knock Foul Feast and Angorodon's Gaze for Life and Signet of Lost Souls.

aga · Mar 13, 2011, 03:11 AM // 03:11

^ you just completely overhauled his build. He asked how to improve his set up, because he wants to keep paras/rangers, he didn't ask for a whole new team build.

I'd change your monks build, remove SoA and gift of health for dwayna's kiss and patient spirit or dwayna's sorrow.

Kaida the Heartless · Mar 13, 2011, 05:15 AM // 05:15

I improved his build, which is what he was asking for, despite his Paragon and Ranger premise, which wasn't working the way he implemented it (else he wouldn't be here).

Turns out a Mesmer running Panic works way better and can cover more bases than a Paragon of the same sort. The Orders is the same, it'll output more DPS and have the ability to add heals/support, something else he needed. There simply isn't room for dual Commandagons in most builds. Dropped the UA in favor of SoS, which is something he was thinking of adding anyways. It fulfilled a larger margin of gaps in his build when compared to the UA.

The rest is the same with some tweaks to the skill selections. Bumped him to Volley/Pets because he was having defense issues. They will also synergize with the rest of his build concept.

Honestly, I know it's about fun, but I can see the UA as being his saving grace in his current setup. I can't imagine him clearing a 300+ in less than 2 hours and a lot of DP with his current setup. If that is fun for him, more power to him, but I'd like to try my best to get him to a point where he's finding something more efficient and fun; this is something that's a bit difficult given his current line-up.

Also, if he switches his monk to Dwayna's Kiss and Patient Spirit/Dwayna's Sorrow, that'll be the third character in his build hard pressed for energy, and the only one with a power heal. No team with any Hero heals should ever carry Patient Spirit.

If he would like it, I can post a 3 ranger/3 para build that I've vanquished with, since he is so interested in the Ranger and Paragon setup.

Rites · Mar 13, 2011, 06:31 AM // 06:31

wow

the new setup is interesting, will have to give it a run

actually i was aiming more for the ranger and para setup cause of someone elses post about VQing areas with ranger teams, and the setup i had worked, just not as well as i would have liked. normally i run a 2 rit/3 necro team with my ranger, but the challenge sounded interesting. but i do like the input and now it seems i have a new setup to try

thanx to all for input

@kaida will try that setup tomorrow and see how i like it, thanx again
oh and i wouldnt mind seeing a 3 ranger/para setup (though i will actually have to do the beyond quests so i can get Thackery..... he wasnt that hi on my list to unlock, so i never touched the beyond series)

Calista Blackblood · Mar 13, 2011, 09:01 AM // 09:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rites

considering the weakness of a ranger's attacks, i find constant GFtE spam from the 4 heroes keeps the crits more constant

I forgot about it but as Marty said, Dark Fury on an orders bar would help so much. Probably to the point where GFTE is near perma maintained with 2 copies (I would think at least)

Anthem of Envy might also be worth a look unless you had EBSOW EBSOH

Kaida the Heartless · Mar 13, 2011, 09:04 AM // 09:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calista Blackblood

Anthem of Envy might also be worth a look unless you had EBSOW

Could you elaborate on this thought?

Calista Blackblood · Mar 13, 2011, 09:16 AM // 09:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless

Could you elaborate on this thought?

I meant EBSOH. AoE well,you're running high enough Command to make GFTE work,would it hurt to have a little extra damage,especially if you added in Dark Fury to fuel adrenal skills better?

The only problem (I didn't test) is whether the damage bonus is only applicable to first arrow to hit or them all.

Kaida the Heartless · Mar 13, 2011, 09:47 AM // 09:47

I guess I should have mentioned that I understood your typo. :P

I'm guessing your thought process is that EBSoH will increase the damage too fast (bringing the enemy below 50%) and negating a large portion of Anthem of Envy?

"Anthem of Envy might also be worth a look *unless* you had EBSOH"

The "unless" is why I'm asking.

I too am not sure if Envy works on all Arrows.

bhavv · Mar 13, 2011, 10:20 AM // 10:20

What about an orders necro with panic instead of the mesmer? Order of Blood (non elite one I'm sure), and dark fury + panic.

And it definitely needs splinter weapon.

Calista Blackblood · Mar 13, 2011, 11:22 AM // 11:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless

I guess I should have mentioned that I understood your typo. :P

I'm guessing your thought process is that EBSoH will increase the damage too fast (bringing the enemy below 50%) and negating a large portion of Anthem of Envy?

"Anthem of Envy might also be worth a look *unless* you had EBSOH"

The "unless" is why I'm asking.

I too am not sure if Envy works on all Arrows.

Yeah that's what I was thinking,just didn't word too well. Then again Ebon Ward is 1 pve skill slot, AoE would really need DF to power it consistently. Both have their own merit in different instances

Morte66 · Mar 13, 2011, 03:07 PM // 15:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

What about an orders necro with panic instead of the mesmer?

I've run Panic on necros and rits a couple of times. It worked somewhat, but not as well as a mesmer with some fast casting who can maintain Panic.

BrettM · Mar 13, 2011, 03:19 PM // 15:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade

Perhaps swap the UA for Racthoh's Orders/Dwayna Derv. I haven't tried it, but it looks decent. That way you'll get orders and still keep your party heals.

I have tried it with my para running imbagon, and it is decent. An N/Rt healer and the Orders derv seems to be enough healing under those circumstances, but it does mean I have to have another hero supply any curses I want (MoP, Barbs, Weaken Armor). An ER Orders/Curses ele can do both very nicely, but then I have to bring along another healer.

I haven't tried it yet while running non-imbagon or with my ranger, but it might require additional healing on the team, at least for HM.

Sometimes I find myself getting so caught up in adding damage buffs to the team that I suddenly see there is nobody left actually doing damage. They're all too busy casting buffs.

Watch out for the point of diminishing returns, and accept that larger amounts of unbuffed damage sometimes works better.