Curse

Sir Mad · Mar 14, 2011, 05:52 PM // 17:52

First off, sorry: I've just spent 30 mins writing a long intro, and I was about to press the 'send' button when my computer shut down for no reason, so it's gonna be shorter this time.

Here is the build:

It doesn't show the runes. I basically have a sup rune on everybody except the mesmer (major domination) and the para (2 major runes in Motivation and Leadership). Most, but not all, have survivor insignias. With so much damage reduction, it's better to have something against AL ignoring damage or degens (or extra energy if needed).

A few precision on some skills now:

- Incendiary Arrows: I had to drop Barrage for the synergy of this skill with They're on Fire!.
- Never Rampage Alone and Serpents Quickness: I need that to build adrenaline for Save Yourselves!
- Succor: Yeah, it's lame... But since I have to spec in 3 attributes because of IA, I don't have enough expertise, so I have energy issues, and I REALLY need this enchant for my ranger (that and a zealous bow).
- Jagged Bones: Yeah, a 4th MM... I tried that by accident (I forgot to change the build of Olias), and I was amazed to see how well it works. More minions (and more durable minions) for everybody.
- Blood Ritual is just great - everybody should have one of member in his team who carries it. No e-management problem with that.
- Fall Back! is used for the minions and because I'm a hell of a rusher - seriously, this skill rocks.
- Inspirational Speech: I need that for my ranger, in order to build enough adrenaline to maintain Save Yourselves indefinitely.

So yeah, this is a very defensive build, but it also has very good damage power. Basically, the place is swarmed with minions, blocking the foes. And if anyone goes through, SY and They're on Fire! reduce the damage taken to almost 0. On a side note, I'm going for Survivor the hard way: I just do missions, complete books, go to elite areas, etc. No farming. It explains a lot.

Now, here are a few things I'm unsure of:

- For my ranger: I have only 2 PvE skills. The only skill in this bar I could drop would be Distracting Shot. But have you ever played a ranger with no interrupt? You feel naked. Is there any PvE skill with this build that could make me change my mind?

- The mesmer: I'm not used to this profession. I'm sure about Panic and the Command line, but what do you think of the other skills?

- The paragon: same comments. I will definitely keep They're on Fire!, Inspirational Speech, and Finale of Restoration, but what about the other skills? I don't have any adrenaline skill - has anyone figured how to make your hero smarter when he as both Inspirational Speech and an adrenaline skill? I wouldn't mind dropping one healing skill as well... There are so many in this team build already.

Thanks in advance for the comments.

Painbringer · Mar 14, 2011, 06:02 PM // 18:02

I would add some hex removal

and maybe an Extinguish

Sir Mad · Mar 14, 2011, 06:04 PM // 18:04

I have Cure Hex on the JB MM.

Yeah, maybe it's not enough but hmm...

Maya Cerestiez · Mar 14, 2011, 07:02 PM // 19:02

I would prolly bring fourth Necro instead of EG discord mm.
If you wanna go with explosive growth maybe AotL is a better elite than discord?

deluxe · Mar 14, 2011, 07:04 PM // 19:04

Take a prep man, such a waste not to. Volley is not that great imo.

Sabres Phoenix · Mar 14, 2011, 07:21 PM // 19:21

I would swap "Never Surrender" for "Stand Your Ground" on the Mes, because you will probably not be able to keep SY! up constantly, and the burning from Incendiary will quite often not be on / on long enough for "ToF" to be worth the slot. You say you wouldnt mind dropping a healer? how about an ele warder with a (low-ish req) SF to spread burning better? Or maybe even a Balthazar derv - then the burning will be where you want it cos the hero will follow your target. Or ofc, you could always fit epidemic on the mesmer to spread the burning you do.
Also, with finale of restoration, i would ALWAYS have someone on the team running "GftE" so that it triggers a lot more.
For the Para , given that you want to keep the +adrenaline, finale of restoration and "ToF", I think this will work a little better:

OQCkUqm3ZiqTQ+BHhtw94U8OWeD

The elite will now not remove all adrenaline the para has built up,the inclusion of gfte will pump more healing out of finale of restoration, and you get a Fall Back chain to keep rolling too

EDIT: I agree that hex removal is a bit thin..Maybe change the elite on your n/mo to empathic removal?

Olle · Mar 14, 2011, 07:32 PM // 19:32

Succor is bad imo
add Balthazars spirit, more energy regain.

Sir Mad · Mar 14, 2011, 08:23 PM // 20:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by kajusbonus

Succor is bad imo
add Balthazars spirit, more energy regain.

BS triggers when you receive damage, Succor when you hit foes. The zerg use to receive damage, not me. Actually, I go for Succor for the same reason I use Volley, deluxe. Yeah, Volley is bad. But I don't use it for the damage of the skill itself. I use it for two things: Splinter Weapon, and adrenaline for SY. A prep wouldn't make up for the 53^3 damage lost, nor the 3 adrenaline points.

Sabres Phoenix: very interesting suggestions, thanks. I'm definitely not gonna answer until I try that out.

Just a few remarks however: yes, I can keep SY forever with this build (well unless I'm facing only one very tough foe). The burning from IA is on most of the time thanks to Serpents Quickness.

Concerning the "dropping a healer" part - I didn't mean that. I just meant that among the 7 heroes there were probably too many heals. I think the combos here are just fine. However, I wouldn't mind swapping a healing skill on one hero with something else.

But again, thanks for your suggestion, I'm going to try that out.

EDIT - Argh, Tombs HM in drunk mode should figure that out. I'm gonna try now.

IronSheik · Mar 14, 2011, 08:51 PM // 20:51

Succor doesn't activate when you deal damage...it makes you lose energy...?

You have A LOT of minions, the death nova will be spamming it all the time, I'd either add an additional or remove entirely.

The Discord rit would be better as a necro imo

Not enuff fire to justify They're on fire

Volley+incendiary=useless

I understand you want to upkeep SY, but incendiary+auto attacking even without IAS can do that, and if SY was up forever, you wouldn't need so many heals.

Don't bring vicious attack without GftE imo.

Rotting flesh and shadow of fear unneeded

Drop heal area/heal other whatever that is, useless either way

Drop communing related skills on rit, bring siphon

Instead of wasting pet skills for an IAS, I'd run dwarf stability+lightning reflexes

Olle · Mar 14, 2011, 09:10 PM // 21:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Mad

BS triggers when you receive damage, Succor when you hit foes. The zerg use to receive damage, not me. Actually, I go for Succor for the same reason I use Volley, deluxe.

"Succor"
Enchantment Spell. While you maintain this Enchantment, target other ally gains +1 Health and +1 Energy regeneration, but you lose 1 Energy each time that ally casts a Spell.

it sucks.

Sir Mad · Mar 14, 2011, 10:00 PM // 22:00

Yup, sorry about Succor, IronSheik, I had something else in mind. However, the monk loses energy only if you use a spell - which never happens in my case.

kajusbonus, what part of "I'm not taking any freaking damage" don't you understand? Yes Succor sucks. Yes, I would like something better. But do you want to suggest something (besides BS that does not work with this build)?

Quote:

You have A LOT of minions, the death nova will be spamming it all the time, I'd either add an additional or remove entirely.

Actually, 12 hours ago, I had 2 heroes with Death Nova - I'm just testing now, but I tend to agree with you.

Quote:

The Discord rit would be better as a necro imo

Actually the 3 Discord heroes were my heroes before the update. That worked incredibly well. The Rt has more healing spells than the standard Discord team necro, and that's for the better I think.

Quote:

Not enuff fire to justify They're on fire

Volley+incendiary=useless

I understand you want to upkeep SY, but incendiary+auto attacking even without IAS can do that, and if SY was up forever, you wouldn't need so many heals.

Again, you must see that as a team work. Volley = s*** loads of damage thanks to Splinter + adrenaline. No, you can't keep SY up with IA only: again, to do so, I need IAS and help from the para.

Concerning the burning, yeah, a SF ele would do better, no doubt about that, but every 3.3 seconds (with the buffs), I apply 3 seconds of burning. I don't see what's wrong with that, and what would justify not to bring a non elite skill that reduces the damage by 25+%.

Concerning the "many" heals, I agree. Again, I'm going for survivor "the hard way" (no farming, just playing the game). Yes, there are too many defensive skills. But... it works, and it's damn fast.

Quote:

Drop heal area/heal other whatever that is, useless either way

Heal Area. You're right, that's a waste of energy. Even if I'm old school, I think I should get rid of it too.

Quote:

Drop communing related skills on rit, bring siphon

Why would I drop the communing skills? But you have a good point about Siphon. My SoS used to have it - I replaced it by a sig of creation because my ranger used to carry siphon - I forgot to switch it back.

Quote:

Instead of wasting pet skills for an IAS, I'd run dwarf stability+lightning reflexes

Yeah, but no Serpents Quickness then - that would destroy the build.

EDIT - Oops I almost forgot the most important.

Sabres Phoenix, you were right, your Para build is definitely better. I just dropped Fall Back! since it is off-attribute and I already have it on the mesmer. I replace it with Ballad of Restoration - that was quite random.

Stand on your Ground on the mesmer seems to be nice too. I'm just unsure if it's really needed (with SY and they're on Fire). I need more testing!

moldmaker · Mar 15, 2011, 01:29 PM // 13:29

i like, could you give the codes for this team build please

Sabres Phoenix · Mar 15, 2011, 07:42 PM // 19:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Mad

Stand on your Ground on the mesmer seems to be nice too. I'm just unsure if it's really needed (with SY and they're on Fire). I need more testing!

I usually take it to help for if you get hit with soothing images. those wind riders and plants do like to spam that. In that case, SYG helps to lower dmg taken. It also fits the bill for the para's centurion insignia, and if i take it, soldiers fury too

I know its not often it happens, but I have had ToF! get hit with some LONG recharge times, and SYG is what I use as a multi cover for all those annoying little down times in SY and ToF.

Sir Mad · Mar 15, 2011, 10:39 PM // 22:39

Here is the latest version of the build:

- The SoS now carries Spirit Siphon (it should have been like that since the beginning).
- I now have 2 necros again with Death Nova.
- I got rid of the res on the mesmer (the other N/Mo now has one), and I took Hex Eater Signet instead, which works surprisingly well. I didn't have many options anyway: that was that or Hexbreaker Aria, which costs a lot, or Remove Hex (ewww...).
- The Para now uses Sabres's build. I just got rid of Fall Back! and replaced it with Aria of Zeal, which allows me to drop Signet of Lost Souls on a few heroes.

Now, there are still a few things that are bugging me. First, what do you think of the mesmer bar (skills 2-4) - I'm still unsure about that? Also, hero #5 no longer needs a Signet of Lost Souls, so I'm willing to replace it with a healing spells. 2 things could improve this build: something to heal the minions (but I didn't find any skill, besides Heal Area, which costs A LOT of energy off combat), or some kind of direct heal.

The party members almost never get hit, thanks to the impressive minions / spirits wall, and when they do, it's for 10 or 20 hp thanks to the defensive skills. However, on rare occasions, someone gets spiked, and I find the heroes a bit slow healing-wise (of course: they're not dedicated healers), so I think one more direct heal wouldn't hurt (NB: that's not a big deal: you really need to over agro - and I really mean over agro - and be outta luck to see someone dying with this build). Any suggestion?

moldmaker, here is the temple code. But keep in mind everything here is built around a human ranger: that wouldn't work with another profession (unless you change a few things).

OgEUcR7g38SsGghxg8gIHXFPG0G
OANEYZx98JFzcUpAiGUPEQ8ORTA
OAhlYgESBfUh5UVjZHV7AiYYKN7E
OACjQqgoIPI3q51sc+Nj2MTMG
OANDYZxdOV1laVQNgGMaT/3J
OASjQmhZBPNTnZMrKMMncSzxJ
OQlkAgC7wZmDNY6J4Md74acGYEC
OQCjgul6pOB5HcE2C3jTxaY5N

Kaida the Heartless · Mar 15, 2011, 11:17 PM // 23:17

Okay, I cringed doing this but here you go. Tried to keep it as close to your original as I could.

On you I dropped Dshot for Dwarven Stability. This will allow you to 100% your Serpent's Quickness, which means more uptime for your "Save Yourselves!". Your Mesmer will be taking care of interrupts.

On the next guy, I would suggest dropping Succor for something useful and using a Zealous Bow. The skill sucks, but you seem adamant on using it so I didn't change it.

On the N/Rt I dropped Shadow of Fear (redundant with Enfeebling Blood) in favor of Spirit Light, the powerheal you said you needed somewhere.

On the Rt/X, I dropped Spirit's Gift in favor of Ancestor's Rage. Spirit's Gift was moved to your other Rit to yield better results, but we'll get there in a second. It was pointless on this char because most of the heals it was providing are going to be at the beginning of the fight when you don't need em.

On the N/Mo, I dropped Rotting Flesh, another terrible skill, in favor of Blood of the Master. You have enough heals that the sacrifice won't matter. Putrid Bile is another option here. Overall, I think you have too many "minion" characters, but it's your call.

On the Rt/N, I dropped Protective was Kaoli in favor of Spirit's Gift. They are redundant to one another. Spirits gift will proc twice off each "Bone Minions" skill cast. You'll see better results with it here.

On the Mesmer, I replaced Overload, which heroes don't use properly, to Cry of Frustration to cover some of the Interrupts Dshot is going to miss. They have the same recharge, but CoF interrupts the whole group.

On the Paragon, I dropped Spear of Lightning to Merciless Spear. His most important job is to spread Deep Wound, since it is your only source. Merciless Spear also is synergistic with Anthem of Fury, which I would suggest changing since only 2 party members are effected by it. With the energy left over, I bumped Finale of Restoration to Mending Refrain, which is easily kept up on all characters with "They're on Fire!", "Fall Back!", and "Save Yourselves!". You will see better healing results this way (due to less over healing) and your Paragon will spend more time attacking and spreading deep wound.

Sir Mad · Mar 15, 2011, 11:33 PM // 23:33

Thank you Kaida, a lot of good advices.

Just one remark: yes, I do agree that Succor sucks, but the thing is... I didn't find anything else to get energy. I already have a zealous bow, and that's not enough. The only other option I have would be to micro the second hero for his BR. I tried that, and it doesn't work. I mean... It does work for me, but then he has little time to do anything else (basically, that's BR on me most of the time, then BR on a few other heroes, then minions things - that's it).

Concerning Blood of the Master... Again, the first time I used the JB hero, that was because I forgot to change his skills bar, and he had BotM. I freaked out the first time he used it. In places where there are a lot of corpses (typically, Factions missions), I can have up to 38 minions. BotM is deadly. Prot Spirit + BotM would do the trick, but that would be a lot of microing, so I'm not sure about this skill.

I'm gonna test the other changes. Thanks.

PS: Why Rotting Flesh is a "terrible" skill?

Horace Slughorn · Mar 15, 2011, 11:50 PM // 23:50

probably cause rotting flesh is a 3sec cast time, which is annoying

Sir Mad · Mar 16, 2011, 01:26 AM // 01:26

OK, so I've just tested a few of your suggestions in FoW, Kaida, and I must say I'm a little bit disappointed. It sounded great on the paper, but in practice, I decided to resign after 'Restore the Temple' to switch back. That was not a complete failure, but I had 3 deaths when usually no one dies at all there.

Concerning Dwarven Stability: yeah, it sounds great. However, it costs 5 energy. That's nothing for any class but rangers. We manage our energy by reducing the cost of skills, and it doesn't work with spells. Even with Succor (yeah... Suxor) and a zealous bow, I couldn't spam my skills because of DS. So this is definitely not a replacement for Distracting Shot. Eventually, I could replace For Great Justice! with that - gotta try to see if it works.

Concerning the Rt/N with Spirit's Gift (that was previously on the SoS): that was a bad idea IMO. For some reason, with this enchant, he was always out of energy and needed BR most of the time. Without it, he's fine. I guess I had found the right balance energy-wise. I must say as well the loss of a second Kaolai was what caused the deaths during this run (they were due to the AoE of the skeleton mes and ele).

I have to disagree with you as well when you say Spirits Gift on a SoS provides healing at the start of a fight only. Unfortunately, spirit spammer heroes are kinda dumb and won't recast a spirit if there is one of the same kind in the radar. So basically, they use spirits when they want to... Furthermore, I noticed as well that without the cheap heal from a second Kaolai, the Rt/N spent much more time healing single targets, and therefore was generally late for creating minions, which defeat the purpose of Spirits Gift on him.

Concerning the mesmer now, yeah Cry of Frustration is good. Again, she uses more energy now, but that's ok. BR is here in case (as long as she doesn't need it all the time, that's good).

Merciless spear on the para is alright I guess, but I didn't notice more deep wounds. I dunno, I'm gonna keep it for now and check it again. It costs a lot of adrenaline after all.

I'll check the other suggestions later.

EDIT - Actually, concerning Spirits Gift on the EG MM, I'm gonna try to replace boon of creation with Spirit Siphon and see it makes things better.

IronSheik · Mar 16, 2011, 04:15 PM // 16:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Mad

Concerning Dwarven Stability: yeah, it sounds great. However, it costs 5 energy. That's nothing for any class but rangers. We manage our energy by reducing the cost of skills, and it doesn't work with spells.

You have incendiary arrows, you can't pump out damage with a wilderness elite.

Drop Marks to 8+1, and WS to 11+1+1, expertise in rest.

Or just bring lightning reflexes over serpents/NRA/Pet, after all, NRA is a 15e skill.

_____________________________________________

2nd necro drop renew+succor, bring SolS and SoA

3rd necro, this bar is just too split for me, skills from 4 different attributes? Find a more general focus for this slot

4th Drop communing and painful bond, just not worth it to me

5th drop BotM, life keeps up minions, and since you have so many this is just too big of a spike to the necro health wise.

6th Make it a AoTl bomber or a healer, not both

7th Fine...I guess Fc would make me bring signet

8th Not enuff adren skills to justify anthem, not enuff fire for ToF as I said before, Recuperation can replace mending refrain entirely, you have two DW skills, just drop this entire slot and restart

Sir Mad · Mar 16, 2011, 07:21 PM // 19:21

Quote:

You have incendiary arrows, you can't pump out damage with a wilderness elite.

Drop Marks to 8+1, and WS to 11+1+1, expertise in rest.

Yeah, that is a possibility (no need for Succor if it works). I'll try that out. Most of the damage comes from splinter anyway.

Quote:

2nd necro drop renew+succor, bring SolS and SoA

Again, I dropped SolS because I don't need it on this char. He's just fine without. I'm definitely gonna drop it on hero #5 as well. I ran with the sig disabled and it's fine.

Quote:

3rd necro, this bar is just too split for me, skills from 4 different attributes? Find a more general focus for this slot

That's 3 attributes actually: BR is good with no point in blood magic.

Quote:

5th drop BotM, life keeps up minions, and since you have so many this is just too big of a spike to the necro health wise.

Errr... I don't have BotM.

Quote:

8th Not enuff adren skills to justify anthem, not enuff fire for ToF as I said before, Recuperation can replace mending refrain entirely, you have two DW skills, just drop this entire slot and restart

Concerning Anthem of Fury, I let you check the discussion above. Again, for ToF, I apply 3 seconds of burning every 3.3 seconds - yeah a SF ele would do better, but that's already a nice addition. I don't pack mending refrain - I still have to give it a try. And the DW things... I tied a second DW skill to check Kaida's suggestions, and despite the fact that may have sounded a good idea, it seems heroes don't use Merciless Spear properly. I checked the bar of my para, and he barely uses it, even when e has enough adrenaline for it. Need more testing.

EDIT - OK, I've just re-spec'ed (13 expertise, 12 WS and 11 Marksmanship), and indeed I no longer need Succor. Happy now? At least *I* am.

I'll see next run if that's enough to take Dwarven Stability.

I've also replaced Mend Body and Souls on the Rt with Soothing Memories (I have enough condition removals anyway), and he no longer has energy issues. I'll see if I can run Spirit's Gift on him now.