Curse

SapphiraTheKeen · Mar 17, 2011, 04:42 AM // 04:42

Well, I am at an impasse. I am currently working toward my Master of the North title, i have all of the vanquishing and cartography done. The title now comes down to the dungeons and here is where the issue lies, standard faceroll hero comps wont exactly work on dungeon bosses because discord cant upkeep the dps after all the minions die. So i need to solve this dilemma and make a hero team that can work without the minion wall. I've come down to 2 comps that i'd like your criticism on and to help me improve upon.

Team 1:

This team gives some freedom as to what you want to use as your build so i left the first bar blank. I feel like the ST and panic mez can be improved. I am also at a loss as to what to run for my 7th hero. I've tried a UA, but that was just overkill on the support. I've also tried a Keystone mesmer, but half of that bar ends up being useless against a dungeon's end-boss. The Aotl and IV necros suffer from the same, but i am hoping that the raw power of the spirits can cover for the lack of ability from them when i comes to the end boss.

Team 2:

Team 2 is a fusion of Racway and spiritway with a panic mez thrown in replacing the ST. The build is rather self explanatory. The reason why i don't run an Imba is do to the fact that my main isn't a paragon. I'm worried about how much healing will actually occur in this team and if the paras will be able to maintain the echos by themselves.

These are my builds, and i hope you can give me some good advise on how to fix them up so they'll work well for dungeons. Thanks in advance.

AndroBubbles · Mar 17, 2011, 07:56 AM // 07:56

I would have just one dedicated healing slot. On my 7 hero team for getting GWAAM it's my actual character but for yours a n/rt would probably be fine. Spirits+minions should absorb a lot of the damage. I also don't think you need 4+ hard res skills on your team. You could make room for more utility/energy management by removing one or two of those.

Now to individual bars. This will be lengthy, since I'm going into detail about ways to compress your bars for more efficiency.

Icy Veins is not that great in hard mode by itself and the AI doesn't stack the hexes well to make good use of the huge AoE explosion potential. In general I'm not really seeing why you would pick that bar over anything else when you have the ability to compress its function into bars that are already on your team. It also has a second copy of splinter weapon which really isn't that necessary even if you're spamming skills. I would remove it, which brings me to my next point. Your Panic hero has way too many rupts and not enough damage. Heroes also don't prioritize interrupting skills that well. It may use PSpike when CoF is recharged, which is of course silly when fighting a mob. Put an ineptitude mesmer in there instead of the IV necro; it will get plenty of AoE damage, and you have the option of giving it Arcane Conundrum, which is great energy management+caster shutdown+interrupt assist. Now, my team actually has 3 mesmers, but your team would be fine with just two. Instead of PSpike and Ether Sig, try Wastrel's Demise or Worry and Unnatural Sig for more AoE damage.

Your SoS hero has a lot more potential than what you're giving it. Two skills are not really enough to compensate for all the investment into Resto when you're getting no damage from it. Try having it go /Mo and invest in smiting. Judge's Intervention+Smite hex make great skills for SoS heroes because they have a lot of spare time on their hands when they're done casting spirits. JI will automatically be used by AI on minions with low health, adding damage to death nova, while smite hex is great utility+aoe damage at higher specs. You really don't need that much in spawning power.

I prefer ST over SoGM on the communing spammer, but that's just preference for mobility over damage. Only thing I would definitely change is his 8th skill. A low cost utility skill like enfeebling blood is nice in that slot, and will do a lot more good than the overkill you currently have on hard res slots. I never have more than 2 on my team.

The ST rit just seems like it could be replaced by any other type of healer. With all the spirits+minions, you probably won't need shelter, and the minions will eat it up anyway once you've got a mob of them going. Try a basic n/rt of your choice to go as the full healer.

As for the last slot, I'm surprised you haven't thought of a paragon, and that on your second team setup, you don't have anthem of envy. Anthem of envy is extremely powerful with spirit spammers, since it affects "allies", and only ends once the condition has been met. I run this on my team: Blazing Spear, Merciless Spear, Wild Throw, Anthem of Envy, Anthem of Weariness (for more weakness), Stand Your Ground, Soldier's Fury, Signet of Return (amazing hard res at high leadership)

If I've missed anything you'd like covered, please let me know.

Andemius · Mar 17, 2011, 04:48 PM // 16:48

Hey, I don't know why your having issues with discord, i use a build based around it, and it's worked great for me, even managed HM Duncan and all associated with TLH in HM.

Me (W/D Enduring - SY! - Cheap hexes and conditons)
N/Mo Discord + Minions
N/Rt Discord + Minions + Heals
N/Rt Discord + Hexes + Heals
Me/Rt Panic Rupter
E/Mo ER Protter
Rt/? SoS Spirts + Heals
Rt/? SoGM + Spirts + Heals

Works fine for me, done 7 HM dungeons with it so far, died 3 times overall, due to over aggro.

Would probs work even better if I wasn't a warrior lol.

SapphiraTheKeen · Mar 17, 2011, 11:52 PM // 23:52

discord relies on rapid deaths to upkeep the energy to spam discord, is a lot of dungeons the end boss is alone, or his allies don't leave corpses so you run out of minions to fuel the necros. this results in a VERY slow boss fight

@AndroBubbles

what do you suggest i change on the SoS for the second team? since you said that the resto points invested there were kind of wasted, and what should i do to compensate for the loss of healing there? Also on that second team i don't plan on running this with a paragon, so using soldier's fury is kind of pointless do to my lack of leadership. any thoughts on a build to replace the current one?

AndroBubbles · Mar 18, 2011, 05:47 AM // 05:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by SapphiraTheKeen

discord relies on rapid deaths to upkeep the energy to spam discord, is a lot of dungeons the end boss is alone, or his allies don't leave corpses so you run out of minions to fuel the necros. this results in a VERY slow boss fight

@AndroBubbles

what do you suggest i change on the SoS for the second team? since you said that the resto points invested there were kind of wasted, and what should i do to compensate for the loss of healing there? Also on that second team i don't plan on running this with a paragon, so using soldier's fury is kind of pointless do to my lack of leadership. any thoughts on a build to replace the current one?

Try smite skills like Judge's Intervention and Smite Hex. They work great with minions and add to your utility. And I meant that you should add a paragon as the last hero for that first team and have anthem of envy in either team because it works so well with spirits.

To compensate for lack of healing just take out the ST healer and put in a N/Rt with all heals/support skills. The minions+spirits+minor prots on the minion master will absorb a lot of damage, so one healer should be fine for most situations.

SapphiraTheKeen · Mar 18, 2011, 06:00 AM // 06:00

i'm talking about team 2, not team 1.

team 2 lacks any minions so judge's intervention is kind of wasted

@edit:
went through ooze pit NM with team 2, gotta say, i'm going to dread doing it in HM...

Elfblade · Mar 18, 2011, 01:45 PM // 13:45

your team 2 lacks healing. you have 3 resto heals and a few moti skills to heal up damage plus the lack of any kind of defence besides SY!(You dont even have prot spirit) Team 2 is not going to cut it in some EOTN dungeons and some area's with AOE

AndroBubbles · Mar 18, 2011, 07:17 PM // 19:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by SapphiraTheKeen

i'm talking about team 2, not team 1.

team 2 lacks any minions so judge's intervention is kind of wasted

@edit:
went through ooze pit NM with team 2, gotta say, i'm going to dread doing it in HM...

If SY is not up constantly, I would slip Stand Your Ground in there somewhere. Take out For Great Justice; you've already got Mark of Fury AND Soldier's Fury, which should provide all the adrenaline you need. Change Song of Purification to Song of Restoration; MBaS should take care of conditions fairly well. On your communing rit, definitely take out armor of unfeeling and put in Life for that extra burst of party healing. Your spirits shouldn't be taking all the damage and you have a decent spec in spawning power anyway. You'll get 100 health per unit at 9 restoration since it's the breaking point. Drop some points from SP on the SoS to get some more restoration. You're not getting much use from the attribute in this case and you want more healing.

The Panic mesmer needs more damage and less interrupt spam. Panic will interrupt a lot more than you're giving it credit for. Cry is something you want used on recharge; don't clog up the bar with more stuff for your hero to get confused with. Take out ether sig and put in something like inspired hex if you want energy+more utility. Take out PSpike and again, put in Unnatural Signet for more AoE damage.

You've also got way too many res skills again. You can make room for better skills by dropping 2-3 of those from your team. First person to take res from is the SoS. If you want it to be able to heal more, you need to give it the skills to do so. There's a lot that can be done with this build, but I do have work so I may have to come back to finish this up.