Curse

SongOf · Mar 24, 2011, 12:47 AM // 00:47

The goal of both HM team builds is to prolong the duration of and maximize damage output of spirits and minions, while layering defensive and offensive aoe skills. NOTE: attributes listed do not show the +1 from minor runes (+2 from stacking)

Ritualist player (slot 1):
Previous v1 Previous v2

Monk player (slot 1):
Previous v1 Previous v2

Some overlooked Skills:
Complicate: AOE mini-Diversion. Use two to shutdown 2 monk teams and prevent A LOT of damage in 'themed' mobs.

Spirit's Gift(swapped): AOE condition removal + AOE heal that works on heroes/spirits/minions = amazing. Use this with spirits that are cycled quickly (30 seconds or less).

Spiritleech Aura(swapped): Stealing health is BETTER than armor-ignoring damage. Combine with Signet of Ghostly Might (+33% attack speed) so spirits tear through high armored tanks very quickly.

Overload(swapped): AOE mini-Discord. Remember that Fast Casting attribute reduces recharge time. All mesmer damage is armor ignoring, and unlike interrupts, 2 Overloads won't cancel each other out.

On spirits and minions:
Anthem of Disruption and Anthem of Envy also work on spirits. Abuse these even more!

"Go for the Eyes!" also works on minions.

Life, Recuperation, Blood Bond, Dwayna's Kiss, Spirit's Gift, & Avatar of Dwayna ALL heal minions and spirits too.

Resurrect tips:
1. Don't put on healers (if they stop healing, more heroes die)
2. Put one on a fast casting mesmer to raise heroes quickly
3. Put another on whoever will likely be the last hero standing. High armor + non-melee range = paragon for me.
4. Have Resurrection Scrolls in your inventory for last ditch efforts in the heat of battle or if you decide to flee a dying party. Having no res means you have to zone out.

Misc tips:
1. Compress bars with skills that DO and TARGET multiple things (Hex Eater Signet, Spirit's Gift, etc.).
2. Kill as fast as possible with armor-ignoring AOE damage (Wandering Eye, Cry of Frustration etc.). This is a must for Hard Mode.
3. Strengthen defense using layers of redundancy and staggering skills across bars.

Comments and criticisms are all appreciated!

XaiXo · Mar 24, 2011, 02:41 AM // 02:41

First of all, I absolutely agree with Complicate. One top-notch skill, especially on groups with multiple of the same foe. Shuts Eles and Monks down.

Overload isn't really comparable with Discord, as it requires the foe to be using a skill. That's far less often than a foe being hexed, enchanted or suffering conditions. I'd rather have a solid interrupt than Overload in most cases.

Leader's Zeal isn't 11~ energy. On your bar with 9 Motivation, it nets a gain of 5 energy, and that's assuming all party members are within range.

Ok, the first set.

The top Rit bar is ok. Some unnecessary skills (Signet of Creation is entirely pointless). Soul Twisting, GoLE and Boon of Creation helps with the costs and cooldowns of the heavy defence spirits, though I can't help feel that after a couple of seconds of attacks, all 3 spirits will be dead and the Rit becomes little more than a Spirit's Gift spammer.

The second Rit is, again, ok. Spiritleech is the way to go, and having IAS on them is a bonus. However, the actual damage output would have to be tested to see if it is actually worth it against a different class or bar. Shadowsong hitting faster is always a bonus, though.

The third Rit is pretty solid. Does more or less everything you'd need it to.

The fourth bar is fine, apart from Reaper's Mark. Is it really necessary? As a 12 Soul Reaping (not even including runes) Necro, the extra energy is a total moot point. I'd suggest Icy Veins or Preservation over it.

Fifth bar is good, but I can't help wondering: Why Healing Breeze? Not a terrible skill, it just seems like an odd choice for the build.

The Sixth bar is solid.

The Seventh is good, though I'd have Spiritual Pain and Unnatural Signet thrown out. Not particularly efficient or necessary. Perhaps swapping for Wastrel's Worry or Collapse, and Leech Signet as a mix of energy management and interrupt.

With the exception of Leader's Zeal, the Eighth bar is also good. I like the use of Barrage. Find Their Weakness! would be a great addition instead.

The second set seems more refined, but suffers many of the same problems and oddities. Plus, that Monk build and the 6th bar (Mesmer) aren't very hot. If you want my suggestions for them, give me a shout.

SongOf · Mar 24, 2011, 03:39 AM // 03:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by XaiXo

snip snip

Ty for your generous input :]

Overload: Fair enough I can swap them for Cry since their builds don't have energy problems

Leader's Zeal: Omg you're right, it's a skill and not a shout/chant so Leadership doesn't return energy :/

Yes, first rit Signet of Creation is overkill, it'll be swapped with...something. As long as first rit is running Spirit Gift second rit can be swapped out for more DPS, although I do like the idea of spirit cannon fodder.

Icy Veins can replace Reaper's Mark, no problem.

Healing Breeze is so that the N/Rt doesn't camp the MM as he pumps BotM. It also allows MM to do support between Putrid Biles. Dwayna's Sorrow and Death Nova last 30 seconds so there's some downtime.

I'm surprised you recommended throwing out Spiritual Pain and Unnatural Signet, but I understand the high risk high reward of Wastrel's. My mentality was that in Hard Mode skills are being used so fast and often Wastrel's would never trigger. I'll try it though.

Find Their Weakness! looks good, it'll replace Leader's Zeal

Lastly, yeah the 6th mesmer bar is weird. I want to abuse Assassin's Promise sooo bad, LOL. I'll toy it with some more, thanks!!

SongOf · Mar 24, 2011, 06:40 AM // 06:40

[sacced for more recent post]

GrimmNinja · Mar 24, 2011, 07:06 AM // 07:06

Ok, for your 1st set, you might wanna add p-drain somewhere in there as from what I can see, your panic mesmer might have a few e-manage problems. And in the 2nd set, might wanna add Cry Of Frustration for more epic lolz..
Finally for both ST rits add Armour of Unfeeling, as I am pretty sure it reduces the amount of damage each spirit takes when it does its job thus making them a lot more durable, especially with minions. Since minions can lead to the prot spirits to blow up really fast sometimes.

XaiXo · Mar 24, 2011, 03:18 PM // 15:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrimmNinja

Ok, for your 1st set, you might wanna add p-drain somewhere in there as from what I can see, your panic mesmer might have a few e-manage problems. And in the 2nd set, might wanna add Cry Of Frustration for more epic lolz..
Finally for both ST rits add Armour of Unfeeling, as I am pretty sure it reduces the amount of damage each spirit takes when it does its job thus making them a lot more durable, especially with minions. Since minions can lead to the prot spirits to blow up really fast sometimes.

Leech Signet is preferable to Power Drain at 5 Inspiration. 7 energy as opposed to 6.

Armour of Unfeeling is a bonus, roughly doubling the mount of damage they can take. However, it's ANOTHER skill just to keep them up.

The way I see it, defensive spirits serve for the primary purpose of instant defence in what I like to call the opening move.

The majority of HM mobs that are dangerous will open with either a large damage packet or a prep of some kind, THEN the damage. The player in a 7H party will nearly always be the one pulling, and thus will always be the first target for the vast majority of the damage.

Additionally, there's often enough time between pulling/agroing for enemies to get spells off before the Mesmers get in range to cast Panic or interrupt.

After the opening move, the minions will run in and start bodyblocking and sucking up the damage, keeping your party relatively safe.

As such, I use defensive spirits to cover the party for the opening move. The minions WILL cause the spirits to die prematurely, but that's fine - It means the minions are eating up damage anyway. What the protective spirits are for, in my opinion, it to get you and any other likely targets through the opening move, and possibly giving healers a few seconds break should the fight last more than 30 seconds.

SongOf · Mar 24, 2011, 11:03 PM // 23:03

Monk build optimized, damage output noticeably higher:

Necro
Hex Eater Signet moved to mesmer (attribute high on mes & e-gain actually useful)
Clumsiness added, Illusion raised to 11 (107/89/70 dmgs)
Mesmers
Overload => Cry of Frustration
Inspiration raised to 11 (so WNWN has 12e return)
No Power Drain or Leech Signet ('forces' Cry of Frustration & Complicate => dmg & defense higher)
Paragon
Res moved to resmer (still good)
Barrage => Volley (rarely hit full 6)
Added Soldiers Fury (Splinter combo DPS & adrenal spam higher now)
Added "Find Their Weakness" (Deep Wound for fast spikes)

================================================== =======

Necro MM swapped for 2nd paragon in ritualist player build:

Something VERY interesting
I noticed that the minions were lasting much longer with my monk build. It's because thanks to Aegis & Prot Spirit, Displacement/Shelter/Union were triggering less from the heroes. Also, the absence of the third rit & extra offensive communing spirits weren't triggering them either.

Reasons For Swap
1. So Displacement/Shelter/Union will trigger less & more often on spirits (less recasting spirits => more time & energy casting spells)
2. Para filled same support role (besides fodder) with fewer risks/randomness (MM dies and now masterless minions are attacking party / no fleshy, no corpses, little help to party / enemy MM in HM casts fast and steals corpses anyway)
3. Necros were already energy efficient & didn't need minions to pump Soul Reaping

New Mechanics
1. Defensive Anthem (compensates for lost cannon fodder & shifts communing spirits to trigger more on spirit damage instead of heroes)
2. x2 Fall Back! & x2 Aura of Restoration (compensates lost cannon fodder, replaces 'heals' from Dwayna's Sorrow & reduces down time)
3a. x2 Energizing Chorus (allows paras to spam Volley more)
3b. x2 Volley + x2 Splinter Weapon (somewhat compensates lost minion DPS & Putrid Bile/Death Nova AOE)

Sir Mad · Mar 25, 2011, 01:05 AM // 01:05

Did you manage to get your para use Barrage/Volley properly? I use Volley on mine as well (not to waste the Splinter Weapon my rit casts on him and to get extra adrenaline), but it seems heroes don't know they can use both an attack skill and a chant/shout at the same time (or two shouts at the same time for that matter). Basically, my para uses Volley only when he's done using chants/shouts (which rarely happens). The rest of the time, he just uses the auto-attack. As promising as Volley/Barrage sounded on a para, I must say I'm quite disappointed.

SongOf · Mar 25, 2011, 01:33 AM // 01:33

For me at least, they use it very well with those builds. Maybe it's because both paras are set to Fight and not Guard? It's important to note that paras don't use Aria of Restoration if the party has high health, and "Fall Back!" sparingly during battle unless you the player is moving around. That leaves a lot of energy to burn, which may explain the good mount of Volley spam.

You bring up a good point about designing around hero AI. Use recharge times to your advantage & avoid triggers/limit choice to "force" your heroes towards a single skill that IS spammable.

added later: more changes coming. My para apparently never uses "Find Their Weakness!" and uses Volley on single targets :/ My guess is AI treats the +damage like a single spike skill

XaiXo · Mar 25, 2011, 03:55 PM // 15:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by SongOf

For me at least, they use it very well with those builds. Maybe it's because both paras are set to Fight and not Guard? It's important to note that paras don't use Aria of Restoration if the party has high health, and "Fall Back!" sparingly during battle unless you the player is moving around. That leaves a lot of energy to burn, which may explain the good mount of Volley spam.

You bring up a good point about designing around hero AI. Use recharge times to your advantage & avoid triggers/limit choice to "force" your heroes towards a single skill that IS spammable.

added later: more changes coming. My para apparently never uses "Find Their Weakness!" and uses Volley on single targets :/ My guess is AI treats the +damage like a single spike skill

While I'm unsure of the mechanics that govern the AI's use of Volley, I find it strange that it's not spamming Find Their Weakness!, since I often use that on a D/P when necessary, and it spams it all the time.

Kaida the Heartless · Mar 25, 2011, 09:12 PM // 21:12

I believe they only spam "FTW!" on Melee characters. I micro it on my MM.

SongOf · Mar 26, 2011, 05:51 AM // 05:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless

I believe they only spam "FTW!" on Melee characters. I micro it on my MM.

Thanks for info.

Tried a Avatar of Dwayna derv for the first time today and the amount of ally wide healing it pumps out is ridiculous. It's always at max energy too b/c of Meditation & Radiant Scythe. Possible changes:

1. 2nd mes => Avatar of Dwayna derv
2. HB monk => Empathic Removal (attributeless) GoLE prot-smite
3. (maybe) Defensive communing rit => offensive communing rit

I'm hoping that para buffs+smite buffs+splinter w/ the derv + spirits (don't forget utility, disenchant/blindness) will make up for the lost mes. You lose anti-spike but I feel like that constant stream of healing & max health cannon fodder is more reliable.

==============================

Ritualist v3 posted, testing continues. Still trying my best to design around paragon buffing party/minions/spirits attacks, while dervish passively heals party/minions/spirits to max.

Monk v3 posted, testing continues. I find the monk build to be fun to play, and much, much more versatile than typical RoJ/signets.