Curse

spray04 · Mar 24, 2011, 03:30 PM // 15:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

Bad suggestion. Should reduce player bar skill requirements and concentrate on DPS, AP caller fits Discordway for a reason.

While I agree that it fits for a reason (hence why I put it in), if there are enough hexes/conditions to go around, it is definitely not absolutely necessary to have the AP caller. In most cases it is the best fit, but there can be other cases. I don't understand why you're saying reduce player bar requirements yet you're opposed to me saying there should be more freedom for the player?

Daesu · Mar 24, 2011, 04:11 PM // 16:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by spray04

While I agree that it fits for a reason (hence why I put it in), if there are enough hexes/conditions to go around, it is definitely not absolutely necessary to have the AP caller. In most cases it is the best fit, but there can be other cases. I don't understand why you're saying reduce player bar requirements yet you're opposed to me saying there should be more freedom for the player?

One weakness of Discordway is not being able to get the Hex+Condition up FAST on the target before you can deal damage with Discord. Add condition and hex removal in certain situations and Discordway can really slow down.

This is why the AP+YMLAD+EVAS+FH conbination works well with it because 1. It is player-initiated target calling to prep discord fast, 2. It gives a nice spike to the target.

If you don't use an AP caller, you have to find suitable substitute while keeping this in mind. This is also why discordway works best if the player bar contains hexes and condition inflicting skills as a prep or you have to micro hero skills. I won't bring discordway otherwise.

spray04 · Mar 24, 2011, 06:56 PM // 18:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

One weakness of Discordway is not being able to get the Hex+Condition up FAST on the target before you can deal damage with Discord. Add condition and hex removal in certain situations and Discordway can really slow down.

This is why the AP+YMLAD+EVAS+FH conbination works well with it because 1. It is player-initiated target calling to prep discord fast, 2. It gives a nice spike to the target.

If you don't use an AP caller, you have to find suitable substitute while keeping this in mind. This is also why discordway works best if the player bar contains hexes and condition inflicting skills as a prep or you have to micro hero skills. I won't bring discordway otherwise.

Obviously............ and even more obvious there has to be substitutes. I was merely suggesting the player bar can be filled with a variety of skills.

Dusk_ · Mar 24, 2011, 06:56 PM // 18:56

The thing about Discordway is that about half of your spike is coming from the Player, not from Discord.

If you're going to bother with single-target focus fire, do it well, or don't do it at all.

Kaida the Heartless · Mar 24, 2011, 07:29 PM // 19:29

Discord still has merit in higher end content such as Slavers where you need X dead, immediately and the mobs have decent healing. However, it is going to be much slower and a lot more work in vanquishes. This is really the only option a Caster has for spiking since Ele's are MIA.

Granted I don't need to run Discord; I run 4 Mesmers. Yay.

bhavv · Mar 24, 2011, 08:30 PM // 20:30

Its really ironic how people blasting Discord and suggesting that people think of better builds, are themselves using weaker bars with Icy Veins.

Discord > Icy Veins, and any other elite that doesnt deal armor ignoring damage. It works really will with mesmers because you have plenty of hex spells and coditions are easy to apply with enfeebling blood and ineptitude. There is a lot more synergy with the discord + mesmer builds than the alternatives that are often mentioned.

I seriously wouldnt ever use Icy Veins in HM. SS + SV based builds dont really synergise at all with a pair of mesmers, but the discord necs do work very well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless

Granted I don't need to run Discord; I run 4 Mesmers. Yay.

Yea, I'm thinking of adding a fourth mesmer mercenary to try that out.

Outerworld · Mar 24, 2011, 09:01 PM // 21:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless

Discord still has merit in higher end content such as Slavers where you need X dead, immediately and the mobs have decent healing.

Tbh I wouldn't say Discord has merit in Slavers HM due to just how sturdy the mobs there can be.

Kaida the Heartless · Mar 24, 2011, 09:55 PM // 21:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Outerworld

Tbh I wouldn't say Discord has merit in Slavers HM due to just how sturdy the mobs there can be.

This is exactly why it works there. Discord and it's spikey nature doesn't allow the Monks time to heal, whereas Casterway for example, does.

FoxBat · Mar 24, 2011, 09:57 PM // 21:57

The OP's thread has merit regardless of the actual merit of discord. People seem to like it anyway, might as well have them run the best version of it.

Outerworld · Mar 24, 2011, 09:58 PM // 21:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless

This is exactly why it works there. Discord and it's spikey nature doesn't allow the Monks time to heal, whereas Casterway for example, does.

Providing mass AoE damage means the monks will be unable to keep everything alive compared to a single target spike.

Life Bringing · Mar 24, 2011, 11:19 PM // 23:19

Discord is at its WORST in slavers, not its best.

Wenspire · Mar 25, 2011, 12:10 AM // 00:10

Massive AoE damage works best in Slavers. No matter how good the enemy monks are, they aren't going to out-heal the damage. Also leaves less room for enemies rezzing (if FS is down).

Josh Mindbender · Mar 25, 2011, 12:20 AM // 00:20

Agree with the above.. AoE Damage is much better than single-target. The monks in slavers just won't be able to cope with big AoE pressure compared to the pitiful single target damage that is discord. Not really sure why people run it nowadays with so many other better options for 7 heroes.

UnChosen · Mar 25, 2011, 12:40 AM // 00:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josh Mindbender

Agree with the above.. AoE Damage is much better than single-target. The monks in slavers just won't be able to cope with big AoE pressure compared to the pitiful single target damage that is discord. Not really sure why people run it nowadays with so many other better options for 7 heroes.

Am I the only one that realize that Discord is only ONE skill in a bar with 8 SLOTS?

People run discord because most necros elites are mediocre. Icy Veins is elemental damage (Yucks!), SS doesn't combine well with shutdown, FoC is 2s cast 20s recharge, and everything else are all support skills or crappy degen/health steals.

All the good necro AoE spells are non-elites. Mark of Pain comes to mind.

Eitherway, there are 7 slots on each of the 3 necros to slot in AoE spells, not to mention 4 other heroes that can bring AoE spells as well. All of this debate about discord is much ado about nothing.

Kunder · Mar 25, 2011, 12:47 AM // 00:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnChosen

Am I the only one that realize that Discord is only ONE skill in a bar with 8 SLOTS?

People run discord because most necros elites are mediocre. Icy Veins is elemental damage (Yucks!), SS doesn't combine well with shutdown, FoC is 2s cast 20s recharge, and everything else are all support skills or crappy degen/health steals.

All the good necro AoE spells are non-elites. Mark of Pain comes to mind.

Eitherway, there are 7 slots on each of the 3 necros to slot in AoE spells, not to mention 4 other heroes that can bring AoE spells as well. All of this debate about discord is much ado about nothing.

So, your argument is that Discord builds are good because Necros can bring 7 non-shitty skills to make up for Discord's shittiness? Good luck with that.

Josh Mindbender · Mar 25, 2011, 12:51 AM // 00:51

Yes, many necro elites are mediocre i agree, though i'd still much perfer to run AoTL or jagged bones, hell even a support elite like empathic/signet of removal on a minion bomber.

Pain of Disenchantment is perfectly good for a curses bar and SS is still bound to trigger on autoattacks even if the targets skills are being shutdown but each to their own i suppose ^^.

UnChosen · Mar 25, 2011, 12:56 AM // 00:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunder

So, your argument is that Discord builds are good because Necros can bring 7 non-shitty skills to make up for Discord's shittiness? Good luck with that.

My argument is that it shouldn't even be called Discordway to begin with. Its more like necroway with discord tossed in because necros elites are all uninteresting to begin with.

The strength of necros had never been about their elite. Its about stuff like MoP and abusing Soul Reaping and Minions to the max.

zan the healer · Mar 25, 2011, 01:05 AM // 01:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

You don't need that many heals if you replace the ineptitude mesmer with a SYG paragon. Also replacing some of the heals with debuff hexes may be better.

syg paragon is nice but it doesnt compliment the tanks for discord which are minions

i found taking a st rit makes your minions really strong tanks in areas that are not aoe heavy

Life Bringing · Mar 25, 2011, 01:11 AM // 01:11

If youre using 3 necros, chances are that youre not getting everything you could be out of your heroes. The only extremely viable necro build is the MB. A curses necro is mildly useful, but the curses can be slotted onto another character with better overall results. A n/rt is outdone by other options, notably SoS/resto and panic resto, and a necro orders doesnt leave enough open party slots to bring 2 more necros, considering youre going to need at least 2 other heroes to be physicals or its a waste.

Standard hero team template atm is 1 MB, 2 rits, and 2 mesmers. The last 2 slots are generally filled with either a paragon or a /p for fallback, a ua or healing burst, roj w/SoH, ER, or some kind of curses hybrid. Even without healing in the last 2 slots, that basic template with 2 random heroes can faceroll 95% of the game

UnChosen · Mar 25, 2011, 01:12 AM // 01:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by zan the healer

syg paragon is nice but it doesnt compliment the tanks for discord which are minions

i found taking a st rit makes your minions really strong tanks in areas that are not aoe heavy

I usually have one hero slot devoted to either an ER Prot, a ST Rit, or an AoD Party Heal Spammer. Usually I ditch the illusion mes because I find the anti-melee support redundant and the damage ain't that great. Then I make my SoS and Necros more offensive with multiple copies of Ancestor's Rage / Splinter Weapon...even replacing Discord most of the time.

The defense power of those 3 builds are just too good for me to pass up.